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32 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Den, talk about sidestepping issues. You have sidestepped every post I have asked specific questions like Chris Giles background and experience in data reading or recording and analysing statistics? You have already the good points by 4 posters have made already on this like Silas and Bazzanotsogreat. 

Why wont you listened to experts in the field like Chris Whitty, Jonathon Van Tam, David Speigelhalter in analysing data and stats instead of using an Chris Giles who is not expert in this field? Are you expert in the data recording or analysing statistics? 

ONS figures are up 24th April cos there is 2 weeks gap in ONS figures as always. So you are wrong on the 6th of May. Also you said 42k deaths by Mid March which was wrong cos The ONS on the 42k excess death are 5 weeks period finishing on 24th April. 

 Your are using different stats from different people to suit you own argument. 

 

😓

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Posted (edited)

 

42 minutes ago, den said:

I’ll just leave Chaddy with this fact then I’ll give up. 42,700 excess deaths so far. That’s 42,500 people that have died above the average. 

So why keep posting the Chris Giles posts then? 

So no response to Giles experience and Qualifications in data recording and analysing statistics? 

No response to Why wont you listened to experts in the field like Chris Whitty, Jonathon Van Tam, David Speigelhalter in analysing data and stats instead of using an Chris Giles who is not expert in this field? Even his own paper said it's far too early to analysing data. 

You claimed the ONS figures were up to the 6th May which is wrong. Only up 24th April. You posted 42k deaths by Mid March which was wrong. But you haven't acknowledge you were wrong. 

 

Edited by chaddyrovers

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42 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

He's economic editor of the world's leading financial newspaper, which is read by presidents, prime ministers and captains of industry around the world.

He likely knows more about it than any of the government's "experts"

Thought you were describing philipl for a moment... 😂😂

So now it suits journalists  have more expertise than than scientific modellers and proffessors who have hundreds of peer reviewed artclices and have spent their entire lives dedicated to their chosen field. 

Chris Giles sounds more braniac than any living mortal

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5 minutes ago, Bazzanotsogreat said:

Thought you were describing philipl for a moment... 😂😂

So now it suits journalists  have more expertise than than scientific modellers and proffessors who have hundreds of peer reviewed artclices and have spent their entire lives dedicated to their chosen field. 

Chris Giles sounds more braniac than any living mortal

These so-called "experts" got it wrong from the start with their herd immunity fiasco, a fundamental error that has cost thousands of lives.

You stick to your experts, I'll follow the facts.

 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

So why keep posting the Chris Giles posts then? 

So no response to Giles experience and Qualifications in data recording and analysing statistics? 

No response to Why wont you listened to experts in the field like Chris Whitty, Jonathon Van Tam, David Speigelhalter in analysing data and stats instead of using an Chris Giles who is not expert in this field? Even his own paper said it's far too early to analysing data. 

You claimed the ONS figures were up to the 6th May which is wrong. Only up 24th April. You posted 42k deaths by Mid March which was wrong. But you haven't acknowledge you were wrong. 

 

You’re being the usual Chaddy, avoiding, evading and completely refusing to address the issue.
 

The figures are from the ONS. Chris Giles uses them.  The dates are irrelevant. The deaths are factual. The governments figures are way out.

Edited by den

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I give up with you Den since you cannot answer 3 basic questions. 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

These so-called "experts" got it wrong from the start with their herd immunity fiasco, a fundamental error that has cost thousands of lives.

You stick to your experts, I'll follow the facts.

 

So your facts turn to be actually untrue as they are based on projections.... 

So it now turns out that Chris Giles figured are based his algorithmic predictions and they pull stats from ons. Why not just use ons? Most Intresting is that all of the new Chris Giles disciples, Have failed to mention. Is how other nations record excess deaths. By his own admission the UK is the only nation with near instant recording and transparent data. Italy and Germany are a full month behind. Spain similar. Yet we are so keen to compare

BTW I have no idea why my font style changed 😂

 

Edited by Bazzanotsogreat

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Posted (edited)

Giles's bio

Been Economic Editor at FT since 2004. Before his time at the FT, he worked for a year at the communications regulator Ofcom, reported for the BBC, and served for seven years as an economist with the Institute for Fiscal Studies. 

In 2008, when the financial crisis began, his work earned him the Royal Statistical Society’s prize for excellence in journalism. Chris won the award again in 2012.

 

Edited by chaddyrovers

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17 minutes ago, Bazzanotsogreat said:

So your facts turn to be actually untrue as they are based on projections.... 

So it now turns out that Chris Giles figured are based his algorithmic predictions and they pull stats from ons. Why not just use ons? Most Intresting is that all of the new Chris Giles disciples, Have failed to mention. Is how other nations record excess deaths. By his own admission the UK is the only nation with near instant recording and transparent data. Italy and Germany are a full month behind. Spain similar. Yet we are so keen to compare

BTW I have no idea why my font style changed 😂

 

I thought it was a new version of shouting, a bit louder than normal speech but not quite worthy of capitals.

 

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Just now, gumboots said:

I thought it was a new version of shouting, a bit louder than normal speech but not quite worthy of capitals.

 

😂😂 Its these cheap Chinese phones 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Bazzanotsogreat said:

So your facts turn to be actually untrue as they are based on projections.... 

So it now turns out that Chris Giles figured are based his algorithmic predictions and they pull stats from ons. Why not just use ons? Most Intresting is that all of the new Chris Giles disciples, Have failed to mention. Is how other nations record excess deaths. By his own admission the UK is the only nation with near instant recording and transparent data. Italy and Germany are a full month behind. Spain similar. Yet we are so keen to compare

BTW I have no idea why my font style changed 😂

 

Cut and paste? 🙂

Its not that difficult to understand really, for some folk.

 

Edited by den

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45 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Giles's bio

Been Economic Editor at FT since 2004. Before his time at the FT, he worked for a year at the communications regulator Ofcom, reported for the BBC, and served for seven years as an economist with the Institute for Fiscal Studies. 

In 2008, when the financial crisis began, his work earned him the Royal Statistical Society’s prize for excellence in journalism. Chris won the award again in 2012.

 

Oh , give it a rest Chaddy.

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Posted (edited)

 

Deffo would link to this another story then

 

is the more the Chinese Government aren't telling us when and how this virus started?

Edited by chaddyrovers

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, den said:

Cut and paste? 🙂

Its not that difficult to understand really, for some folk.

 

Yes I cut and paste all my posts from the Internet 🤣😜

If you read Giles' own posts and ons posts on twitter. You can see for yourself how and where the information is collated. He is projecting based on modelling. You can see why this information can't be used A). As a comparison to other nations from Giles own postings the UK and possibly Belgium are in a very small group of nations that record, map and publish excess deaths live. The rest of Europe has weeks if not months worth of lag. As someone who knows the country and culture well I'd suggest Italy excess death toll is whoefuly inaccurate b, he is getting raw data from ons and running his own projections/ predictions based on formula and projections. Why not just wait for the actual data, if in his own words we are actually quite good at the recording and publishing of it C) as the UK is seemingly recording anyone who dies with covid 19 as the cause of death. The figure attributed to covid 19 is likely to change. Whilst this dosent affect actual excess deaths per SE. How does Giles know to what extent those excess deaths are part of a cycle of higher deaths this year? We were told that last year life expectancy was projected to decline in the upcoming years. 

I don't see why their is the need to inflame an already intolerable situation. With facts that aren't realy facts and comparisons with nations that are weeks if not months behind in their own recordings as per your own Expert. This is without delving into demographic, cultural and socio economic comparison

Edited by Bazzanotsogreat

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29 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Deffo would link to this another story then

 

is the more the Chinese Government aren't telling us when and how this virus started?

In my opinion our own Government don’t tell us the truth, so I see no reason to believe the Chinese Government either. 

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9 hours ago, RoverDom said:

Both.  Why cant it be mutually beneficial?

Depends which comes first, the national interest or the vested interest. Free rein to make profit seems to be the guiding principle these days.

The Conservatives always believe the private sector does it better than the state. I don't.

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8 hours ago, K-Hod said:

It was pretty poor to say the least from Hancock to to accuse a doctor who was asking legitimate questions to watch her tone.

Don’t think it was sexist though, I think anyone suggesting so is just sh1t stirring.

I think it was sexist and I don't think I was shit stirring but you're welcome to your opinion. Don't think you should ascribe base motives to me though.

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I've just listened to Gordon Brown on the Peston show and I have to say he's spoken more sense in a 5 minute interview than most of todays politicians put together. 

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57 minutes ago, 47er said:

Depends which comes first, the national interest or the vested interest. Free rein to make profit seems to be the guiding principle these days.

The Conservatives always believe the private sector does it better than the state. I don't.

Granted public sector does balls up contract management from time to time so it appears that there is a free rein to make profit. But getting private sector support is valuable if done right. 

Having worked in both public and private sector, my experience is private sector does most things so much better. But public sector had a better pension so here I shall stay. 

 

 

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Care home worker MP sacked because she spoke out about lack of PPE.

Employees losing their jobs because they highlight potentially dangerous working conditions should not be allowed to happen in a supposedly progressive democracy. 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-nadia-whittome-sacked-21985519?fbclid=IwAR1CaJVIx5FyNWuS9oa-NVWgK7YHV01tIa20a85J_Re4jFYUXvDpKPFgMCE

Another for Starmer's to-do list when he gets in No 10. Repeal all the Tory anti-workers employment legislation

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Posted (edited)

This sorts out the argument about international comparisons

And this..

 

Edited by philipl

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And, now tragically superceeded by reality from this Tory MP:

image.thumb.png.48526043db40c73474fd324360b39f22.png

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