Jump to content

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

well Some Asia countries like China, Japan and South Korea had Sars and Mers not long ago. The link below explains why South Korea had handled this crisis much better than most of the world have. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/experience-of-sars-key-factor-in-response-to-coronavirus

We can learn a lot from South Korea. 

 

This is on a far greater scale than either of those and much much more infectious than either of those. There has only been around 10000 cases of SARS and MERS combined with the former having been around for nearly 20 years.

Also there are plenty of non Asian countries that have dealt with it well. You have other island nations such as New Zealand, Cuba and Australia, then in Europe you have Germany, Norway, Denmark and Greece. In this country we have been behind the curve on everything, despite the fact we had the benefit of seeing what was happening in Asia and mainland Europe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ewood Ace said:

This is on a far greater scale than either of those and much much more infectious than either of those. There has only been around 10000 cases of SARS and MERS combined with the former having been around for nearly 20 years.

Also there are plenty of non Asian countries that have dealt with it well. You have other island nations such as New Zealand, Cuba and Australia, then in Europe you have Germany, Norway, Denmark and Greece. In this country we have been behind the curve on everything, despite the fact we had the benefit of seeing what was happening in Asia and mainland Europe.

But they still have systems and structure in place for virus like this which we don't since we don't get these sort of virus in the UK. That's the point and we don't Ewood Ace. 

In previous weeks we have discuss New Zealand and Australia so I refer you those good points made by @Bazzanotsogreat

We were slow to get the test kits and test centres in place. I have said this a number of times. But we need to learn from this and put in the proper structures and systems in place so make sure this doesn't haven't again. 

1 hour ago, gumboots said:

They put drive through testing centres in place very quickly. Theyve learnt from SARS and MERS how to deal with things quickly. I'm   no expert. Message my son, ultrablue who lives there if you want a better picture. You could pay for a test very easily and if it was positive you got your money back; if it was negative they kept your cash. Restaurants and hairdressers have been open right through in most areas although Daegu was, I think, under stricter lockdown as it was the first centre of their outbreak. The first cases in South Korwa happened during their main end of year holiday in Feb-March so schools have never gone back until the first high school students this week or next.

Thanks for reply. I will ask him

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

But they still have systems and structure in place for virus like this which we don't since we don't get these sort of virus in the UK. That's the point and we don't Ewood Ace. 

Then why did Matt Hancock boast to the Commons that we were 'well-prepared and well-equipped to tackle any contagion' and that we had developed a 'world leading test'.

Edited by Ewood Ace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Then why did Matt Hancock boast to the Commons that we were 'well-prepared and well-equipped to tackle any contagion' and that we had developed a 'world leading test'.

Clearly he was wrong. Blimey how many times. 

Yes might have world leading test but do we have enough to test enough or capacity? No. 

The NHS was well prepare in terms in critical care beds and capacity. But weren't overrun like Italy and Spain were. 

But in care homes we weren't. And that's need looking and investigating. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

But we don't know that do we? Testing is woeful across the UK. 

Have you not got to grips with this yet....?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Gav said:

I believe we did have the capacity at the start of the crisis, but the speed in which this took off surprised everyone, including the scientists.

Once it became clear that testing capacity wasn

As of the end of February senior coroners from around the UK were meeting with UK government, Scientists (sage) and PHE. They were instructed to prepare for hundreds if not thousands of deaths from this virus. FACT. To say they did not know how it would take off is just wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, lsp82 said:

As of the end of February senior coroners from around the UK were meeting with UK government, Scientists (sage) and PHE. They were instructed to prepare for hundreds if not thousands of deaths from this virus. FACT. To say they did not know how it would take off is just wrong.

I'm fully aware of the advice to the coroners, the local morgues here in West Midlands became overwhelmed very early in the crisis.

But it doesn't take away from the fact the infection rates grew so fast it became unmanageable to continue testing at the required level, we simply didn't have capacity, hence 24,000 tracers having been employed in the past few weeks and we only just breaking the 100k tests a day, which still isn't enough.

Back In Feb/March we simply didn't have that capacity, that was my point.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Gav said:

I'm fully aware of the advice to the coroners, the local morgues here in West Midlands became overwhelmed very early in the crisis.

But it doesn't take away from the fact the infection rates grew so fast it became unmanageable to continue testing at the required level, we simply didn't have capacity, hence 24,000 tracers having been employed in the past few weeks and we only just breaking the 100k tests a day, which still isn't enough.

Back In Feb/March we simply didn't have that capacity, that was my point.

 

Yes i agree the infection rates grew fast and testing became unmanageable, however it is clear from the Governments actions in February and March that they allowed that infection rate to grow to where nothing was manageable. I hate to say herd immunity on here but as I was told after those meetings all senior coroners said the same thing its is hard immunity in all but name. If the Government had acted faster and actually had a competent plan testing and tracing would have been a key weapon in combating the virus. As in Germany testing and tracing has never stopped throughout even now. We were too slow in everything from stopping air travel, testing, locking down, supplying PPE, all because the Government went with the wrong plan at the start and when it was clear it was going to cause a catastrophe of epic proportions it was too late. Everything since has been to cover up the mess they have made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

But we don't know that do we? Testing is woeful across the UK. 

Have you not got to grips with this yet....?

Says who? You? 

 

Edited by chaddyrovers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, lsp82 said:

Yes i agree the infection rates grew fast and testing became unmanageable, however it is clear from the Governments actions in February and March that they allowed that infection rate to grow to where nothing was manageable. I hate to say herd immunity on here but as I was told after those meetings all senior coroners said the same thing its is hard immunity in all but name. If the Government had acted faster and actually had a competent plan testing and tracing would have been a key weapon in combating the virus. As in Germany testing and tracing has never stopped throughout even now. We were too slow in everything from stopping air travel, testing, locking down, supplying PPE, all because the Government went with the wrong plan at the start and when it was clear it was going to cause a catastrophe of epic proportions it was too late. Everything since has been to cover up the mess they have made.

Herd immunity - I'm not going there :D but I agree with most of the points you make Isp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Gav said:

We simply didn't have capacity, hence 24,000 tracers having been employed in the past few weeks and we only just breaking the 100k tests a day, which still isn't enough.

 

 

25,000 by end of month. 

177,216 test today

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gav it is a similar case with schools, the Government want schools to go back but don't actually have a plan or guidance. Just as they closed schools without having a plan on how to enable children to learn remotely nor safeguard the vulnerable children. Everything is reactive and all responsibility places on schools to sort it all out. Schools were told for weeks beforehand schools would not be closed. Heads and unions constantly asking DFE. Suddenly with 2 days ( a weekend) notice schools were left to design a whole new way of teaching, new policies had to be written, logistics sorted. Schools working together came up with guidance and took it to the DFE who agreed with it. Free School Meal children were left for schools to sort. When the government finally did something they contracted a company of Tory donors whose system has been inept since day one. I could go on, but my point is the government makes decisions with nothing in place to ensure they have a chance of working. Then put the blame on others in this case schools.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Gav said:

Herd immunity - I'm not going there :D 

Best not too. We were over this time after time last week. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Gav said:

Herd immunity - I'm not going there :D but I agree with most of the points you make Isp.

It shall never be mentioned again!! It just frustrates that they have had opportunities to try and get ahead of the virus but through sheer incompetence and an We know better attitude have made this mess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

It hardly took a genius to know that it was going to take of here. You only had to look at the speed it was spreading around Europe at in the weeks before it really took off here, to think this country was immune to it was either arrogance or ignorance. And despite what we saw in other European countries we were grossly underprepared and now have the most deaths in Europe.

Look in terms of dealing with the virus it's another argument.

However, if we are looking at how it spread then I don't think any government in the world can be criticised, except China. It is now a common accepted symptom of coronavirus for loss of taste, smell or at least a change in it. I've discussed previously about my return from China in November following a bit of travelling. Out of 5 of us 2 of us either lost taste (one lad still hasn't fully recovered from this btw) or had a strange taste in their mouth; 2 were ridiculously fatigued but put it down to holiday blues / general fatigue from a month of travelling and sessioning and the only lad who escaped without any sickness is my friend who smokes like a chimney! He's a 20 a day man and he came back with no illness at all. It's actually remarkable how studies are now showing nicotine could form some sort of protection for this after seeing it first hand myself.

My point being that if anyone believes the narrative that this wasn't spreading in other countries before December then you are setting yourself up to fail. This was rampaging through Europe before many of us knew it existed. It's an almost certainty me and my friends have had this given our symptoms and we were back in work the next working day after we landed. I sat in meetings and shook the hands of everyone I met professionally; my friends work at big manufacturing plants and for those of us who occasionally partake in the herbal life we shared smokes between massive circles of us. We didn't know it was a thing back then though.

There's no doubt in my mind that the majority of people in this country will have been in contact with this virus by now.

My point of the above is that this virus highlights to me two things: 1) China cannot be trusted to be as key a player on the world stage as it is and 2) The UKs healthcare system / public health is shocking.

When you look at countries that have dealt with this virus they either have far superior healthcare to us, far fitter as a nation or didn't trust the early signs from China and locked down immediately. European countries didn't lock down immediately despite the narrative on here (but did so before us) however the 'big players' like Germany and Denmark are simply better countries than us.

 

Edited by Dreams of 1995

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Says who? You? 

 

No, the government numbers.  Apparently we need to be testing 10% of the population daily to get across this properly.

Theres thousands and thousands of people carrying this and because hardly anyone is being tested  we won't know the true number ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Think poor Carole picked on the wrong school and wrong headteacher!! Lazy nasty journalism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

25,000 by end of month. 

177,216 test today

How many of those tests were sent out by post? 

3 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

No, the government numbers.  Apparently we need to be testing 10% of the population daily to get across this properly.

Theres thousands and thousands of people carrying this and because hardly anyone is being tested  we won't know the true number ever.

Is 10% right? Not disputing it's a genuine surprise. Has any country got up to those sort of numbers? Cant see them getting any where near 6-7million tests per day. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

25,000 by end of month. 

177,216 test today

The ever reliable "More or Less" this morning once again took apart the Government's testing figures. As of Monday we have still not done 100,000 tests a day, nearly three weeks after the deadline. They analysed a recent day's figures and I can't now remember the exact numbers (the programme is readily available on BBC Sounds if anyone wants to check). It was something like 130K tests announced, of which about 70K were tests actually carried out on 43K different people. The rest of the tests were posted out and 30K of those were sent out for research purposes and not part of the official test programme.

Maybe yesterday's 177K tests might mean that we actually did 100K tests yesterday, but it doesn't look likely they were on 100K different people. Either way Johnson's new target of 200K a day in 11 days time looks fanciful. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Serious question does anyone know what the government are doing in terms of tracking when a test is positive? Or is it a case of self isolating and that's it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

No, the government numbers.  Apparently we need to be testing 10% of the population daily to get across this properly.

Theres thousands and thousands of people carrying this and because hardly anyone is being tested  we won't know the true number ever.

test 6.5 million people in a day?

9 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

How many of those tests were sent out by post? 

 

You will have to look on department of health and social care twitter feed in a couple of hours

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

How many of those tests were sent out by post? 

Is 10% right? Not disputing it's a genuine surprise. Has any country got up to those sort of numbers? Cant see them getting any where near 6-7million tests per day. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/10/best-way-out-this-pandemic-is-massively-scale-up-testing-heres-how-do-it/%3foutputType=amp

According to some eminent people we should aim for 8% per day to get over a pandemic.  We are being fooled into thinking 75,000 is a great effort (not including posted out ones)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

Is this true though? 

No it is not true...just look up the school..top 2percent in the country for results, outstanding rates by Ofsted and in the most disadvantaged area in Leeds. What the head Chris said was that he wasnt doing online learning but rather doing weekly packs delivered to kids homes as over 80 percent of the children did not have access to laptops for online learning. Completely different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.