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PPE is a corruption scandal of enormous proportions.

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I feel sick. The government awarded £250m to a ”family” accountancy firm to buy PPE. At the same time we were begging them to buy 30m masks a week from an actual supplier in China, and fund a £20m vaccine in Britain. Both were denied. This is an appalling scandal.
 
 
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Jo Maugham QC
 
But wait, that is nothing. The Government spent a cool quarter of a billion quid buying facemasks from a rather interesting outfit called Ayanda Capital Limited (again it was apparently the only tenderer). https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:309303-2020:TEXT:EN:HTML&src=0.
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8:01 AM · Jul 6, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

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In all these bizarre procurements, do we know how well they've delivered? E.g. if we got 10 masks from them and the rest was profit that's bad but if we got a decent volume of PPE and the level of profit is reasonable then it's not as bad. 

 

The second point I'm confused about, these companies are likely awarded these contracts because of and individuals knowledge and connections in the supply chain rather than the company's infrastructure and core trading. Why not just bring those individuals in as a contractor on a short term contract? It would surely yield the same results without the dodgy look. 

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8 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Thats rubbish, with respect.  I did back up my assertion.  If i need to find the paper to satisfy you I probably could.  Its a.widely held view in medical circles 

But, in medical circles the much bigger view is that its origins lie in "wet markets" in China which sell wild animals for human consumption.

So why not go with that?

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, 47er said:

But, in medical circles the much bigger view is that its origins lie in "wet markets" in China which sell wild animals for human consumption.

So why not go with that?

Because ive seen evidence that suggests otherwise,  so I'll go with that.  There much more qualified people than me who have come up with this theory. 

You should read up a bit and not be so reliant on the press feed

Edited by Sparks Rover

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54 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Because ive seen evidence that suggests otherwise,  so I'll go with that.  There much more qualified people than me who have come up with this theory. 

You should read up a bit and not be so reliant on the press feed

  More qualified people than you have come up with a different theory and there are many more of then than came up with the theory you chose to believe.

Not sure why you should think I am reliant "on the press feed" or why you should consider I need to "read up" but you're above that.

Anyway, I know to learn from history and experience tells me where this discussion is going so I'll bow out there.

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8 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Typical of the oaf in No 10, out one night clapping for carers, the next night stabbing them in the back.

Learn that at Eton did you, old chap?

https://www.ft.com/content/8fa45610-b642-4434-b48b-110fd2545f2e

I’m surprised no one else has picked up on this.

Johnson now saying that they are finding out that care homes didn’t follow the rules. He’s starting the moves to shift the blame for thirty thousand excess care Home deaths to the staff in those care homes. That is absolutely despicable and as low as any human being could stoop in my opinion. 
 

This from a government who were shown how to control of care home staff and their movements during a pandemic and implemented none of it. A government who took away their supply of PPE in order to put it into hospitals instead - and a government who oredered that patients should go from hospitals into care homes without being tested. 
 

Some of these care home workers left their own homes to live in the care homes, risking their own lives in order to keep their families safe. Some of them were using improvised PPE at their place of work, yet Johnson says they were responsible for the spread of the virus.

Please  don’t come on here trying to back Boris up on this. Please don’t start telling us how care homes are privately owned and aren’t the responsibility of the government. The lives and safety of all of the people are the responsibility of the government. Trying to abdicate that responsibility is truly disgusting.

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11 minutes ago, 47er said:

  More qualified people than you have come up with a different theory and there are many more of then than came up with the theory you chose to believe.

You have no clue how quakified I am. I chose to believ the theory because it adds up.  

I wouldnt expect you to understand anyway .  You keep on believing its the market 😄 whilst learned people know different  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, den said:

The lives and safety of all of the people are the responsibility of the government. Trying to abdicate that responsibility is truly disgusting.

When's the next PMQs? Starmer needs to wipe the floor with Johnson on this - there is no excuse for what his pathetic and transparent attempt to shift the blame for thousands of deaths. 

There were no procedures, there wasn't any PPE, there wasn't any proper guidance, there wasn't any testing, and the homes had to cope with patients with Covid being discharged back to homes. 

It baffles me that so many people voted for Johnson in the last election and apparently would still vote for this appalling government.

More quotes on the BBC story

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53315178

....if this is genuinely his view, I think we're almost entering a Kafkaesque alternative reality where the government sets the rules, we follow them, they don't like the results, they then deny setting the rules and blame the people that were trying to do their best."

Edited by jim mk2

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35 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

When's the next PMQs? Starmer needs to wipe the floor with Johnson on this - there is no excuse for what his pathetic and transparent attempt to shift the blame for thousands of deaths. 

There were no procedures, there wasn't any PPE, there wasn't any proper guidance, there wasn't any testing, and the homes had to cope with patients with Covid being discharged back to homes. 

It baffles me that so many people voted for Johnson in the last election and apparently would still vote for this appalling government.

More quotes on the BBC story

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53315178

....if this is genuinely his view, I think we're almost entering a Kafkaesque alternative reality where the government sets the rules, we follow them, they don't like the results, they then deny setting the rules and blame the people that were trying to do their best."

I can see how it will go.

 

Starmer: well researched question, quoting boris word for word, this is appalling etc etc. 

 

Boris: My right honourable friend is mistaken, the care sector has done a fantastic job in difficult times, [insert a completely made up and unrelated stat here] and quite frankly he would do well to back the country and stop dragging the name of our nurses through the mud. 

Boris fans: LaBoUr H8 jEwS, hEre mY vOTe bOjO.

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2 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

You have no clue how quakified I am. I chose to believ the theory because it adds up.  

I wouldnt expect you to understand anyway .  You keep on believing its the market 😄 whilst learned people know different  

Just as many "learned people" argue otherwise.

Could you send us the article / research paper you think shows it is man made please? Genuinely curious. 

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2 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

You have no clue how quakified I am. I chose to believ the theory because it adds up.  

I wouldnt expect you to understand anyway .  You keep on believing its the market 😄 whilst learned people know different  

I accept that you're fully quakified! :)

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1 hour ago, 47er said:

I accept that you're fully quakified! :)

No, but its like you're basically saying, "how can you have a different opinion?" and I said "because I read something which I think is trustworthy that suggests something which forms my opinion"  

Whats your problem?

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1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

No, but its like you're basically saying, "how can you have a different opinion?" and I said "because I read something which I think is trustworthy that suggests something which forms my opinion"  

Whats your problem?

Can you post where you got your information from? I am genuinely interested.

I'm in the developed naturally camp.

Here are some articles that I read asserting it;

Nature magazine summary

Nature magazine addendum

Technical document detailing the why's

Science Daily abstract

I did a search for "coronavirus developed in lab" and there were articles from The Sun, Daily Mail, Fox News, Washington Times, and this one that seems to have got the most exposure; ex MI-6 agent says COVID was bioengineered

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, speeeeeeedie said:

Can you post where you got your information from? I am genuinely interested.

I'm in the developed naturally camp.

Here are some articles that I read asserting it;

Nature magazine summary

Nature magazine addendum

Technical document detailing the why's

Science Daily abstract

I did a search for "coronavirus developed in lab" and there were articles from The Sun, Daily Mail, Fox News, Washington Times, and this one that seems to have got the most exposure; ex MI-6 agent says COVID was bioengineered

 

Try Protein Insertion Covid 19.

And, if you add in the current worldwide agressive behaviour right now, would anyone put it past them to use a virus as a biological weapon........

I'm more in the accident in a laboratory camp, but I'm open to this theory 

Edited by Sparks Rover

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8 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

No, but its like you're basically saying, "how can you have a different opinion?" and I said "because I read something which I think is trustworthy that suggests something which forms my opinion"  

Whats your problem?

I thought that's what you were saying! You have a different opinion and that's fair enough. But you go farther than that when you say I'm just a captive of the poplar media and you have unspecified expert opinion which proves the majority expert opinion is wrong.

You have to justify that and you haven't.

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4 minutes ago, 47er said:

 you have unspecified expert opinion which proves the majority expert opinion is wrong.

No I don't, I read a paper that isnt freely available due to my working in the medical industry and from that i made an opinion. All I know is that this virus is so adept to clinging onto human and there are certain proteins in its make up that cannot be identified as normal coronavirus,  means you cannot rule out that it came straight out of a lab.

Lets put it to bed now and we can see how this all plays out. 

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9 hours ago, speeeeeeedie said:

Can you post where you got your information from? I am genuinely interested.

I'm in the developed naturally camp.

Here are some articles that I read asserting it;

Nature magazine summary

Nature magazine addendum

Technical document detailing the why's

Science Daily abstract

I did a search for "coronavirus developed in lab" and there were articles from The Sun, Daily Mail, Fox News, Washington Times, and this one that seems to have got the most exposure; ex MI-6 agent says COVID was bioengineered

 

You've posted 2 links from nature.com there. This link from the same source site states the accidental lab escape theory can't be ruled out at this stage:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01541-z

"But scientists say that the nature of the evidence required means it’s going to be hard to track down the animal source — and also difficult to completely rule out the facility in question, the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), as the source."

"The lab does hold coronaviruses related to SARS-CoV-2, so it is possible that one could have escaped, perhaps if a lab worker accidentally became infected from a virus sample or animal in the facility and then passed it on to someone outside the facility. It is also theoretically possible that scientists at the lab tweaked the virus’s genome for research purposes before it escaped, but, again, there is no evidence that they did."

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Posted (edited)

If my assertion that PPE in the UK is industrial scale corruption aided and abetted by Government, then this is exactly the state of affairs we would be in:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/uk-has-no-clear-ppe-strategy-for-second-wave-of-coronavirus-mps-warn?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlVS19XZWVrZGF5cy0yMDA3MDg%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK

Accepted, the Tory Government is incompetent but even an utterly stupid arse from elbow administration would have PPE procurement totally sorted by now and would be sure not to get caught out by a second wave or no deal Brexit...  

Edited by philipl

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1 hour ago, philipl said:

If my assertion that PPE in the UK is industrial scale corruption aided and abetted by Government, then this is exactly the state of affairs we would be in:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/uk-has-no-clear-ppe-strategy-for-second-wave-of-coronavirus-mps-warn?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlVS19XZWVrZGF5cy0yMDA3MDg%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK

Accepted, the Tory Government is incompetent but even an utterly stupid arse from elbow administration would have PPE procurement totally sorted by now and would be sure not to get caught out by a second wave or no deal Brexit...  

Or perhaps it’s all going perfectly to plan. ?

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47 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

Or perhaps it’s all going perfectly to plan. ?

Precisely

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/warning-of-serious-brain-disorders-in-people-with-mild-covid-symptoms

A rather humbling thought for myself this morning, to be truthful. If things like this are only being found out about now what other underlying nasties could this virus contain in say 10, 12 months time? 

I always had this thought in the back of my mind of, I will do all I can not to catch this virus, but if I get it I'm young and healthy and should have a pretty good chance of surviving it. In some cases the after-effects are becoming increasingly worse than the actual 'symptomatic' effects.

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1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/warning-of-serious-brain-disorders-in-people-with-mild-covid-symptoms

A rather humbling thought for myself this morning, to be truthful. If things like this are only being found out about now what other underlying nasties could this virus contain in say 10, 12 months time? 

I always had this thought in the back of my mind of, I will do all I can not to catch this virus, but if I get it I'm young and healthy and should have a pretty good chance of surviving it. In some cases the after-effects are becoming increasingly worse than the actual 'symptomatic' effects.

Stay safe.

In Florida the median age for hospital admission with Covid has dropped from 65 to 35 in a month.

I fear that means older patients are being kept out of hospital unless they are seriously rich but it might mean there really is a sinister mutation loose in the Eastern USA.

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