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1 hour ago, Gav said:

The money has so far saved thousands of jobs and businesses, the government didn’t have or need a plan in this case, it simply came to the aid of its citizens when required.

The tripe factor just went up another notch.

Just about every sizeable economy in the world has been propping up businesses during the pandemic - are you seriously suggesting this lot deserve plaudits for doing the same? 

 

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46 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

 Have I misread that? Are you saying the government doesnt need people in employment or for businesses to survive?

Yes

What the government needs and what the government does are two completely different things, as you know.

Just ask the underfunded NHS, Johnson claims its "The countrys greatest asset" yet the Tories have been under funding it for years.

You can have a pop at the government for many things, but swift and decisive action on the financials has been tremendous throughout this crisis and no doubt a massive vote winner.

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1 minute ago, jim mk2 said:

The tripe factor just went up another notch.

Just about every sizeable economy in the world has been propping up businesses during the pandemic - are you seriously suggesting this lot deserve plaudits for doing the same? 

 

Its not only me saying it, the whole country are Jim.

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Just now, Gav said:

You can have a pop at the government for many things, but swift and decisive action on the financials has been tremendous throughout this crisis and no doubt a massive vote winner.

Everyone outside the Downing Street bubble knows yesterday’s package was not enough, and the government will have to announce more stimulus in the autumn. Where I live, the non-food shops are almost empty and buses rarely have more than three passengers.

A lot of pubs and cafes have not reopened, and look abandoned. There are more vacant shops than I remember in 2009. 

Throw a hard no-deal Brexit into the mix against a backdrop of an already pandemic ridden economy and we;'re heading for a perfect storm.

Perceptions of government are formed early and this one is seen as having badly managed the coronavirus crisis and telling lies to boot, and will not be forgotten.

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2 minutes ago, Gav said:

Its not only me saying it, the whole country are Jim.

Tripe at warp factor 10. I  wish you wouldn't make this stuff up. 

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6 hours ago, philipl said:

Money for Covid is disproportionately still sticking plaster in the UK with little or no long term vision.

Over 300 billion pounds spend since this Covid hit the UK. 

1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I didn’t sign in to any pub in Brum city centre at the weekend. In fairness to Dodds what she said was right - a proper track and trace system would leave people feeling far more secure, and willing, to enter restaurants and bars. £10 off is rather pointless if you fear going to the restaurants. On the flip side though the voucher can be used for take out so you aren’t forced to attend anywhere you don’t want. 
 

Still half expected a bigger “incentive”. £10 off is a far cry from the recommended £500 by the RF thinktank, and quite meaningless in truth. 

Any help to restaurants and pubs should be welcome. 

The rules for pubs is they are meant to take names, addresses and phone number for NHS track and trace as this link says https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-52977388

Just another sign some landlords not following the rules. 

24 minutes ago, Gav said:

Yes

What the government needs and what the government does are two completely different things, as you know.

Just ask the underfunded NHS, Johnson claims its "The countrys greatest asset" yet the Tories have been under funding it for years.

You can have a pop at the government for many things, but swift and decisive action on the financials has been tremendous throughout this crisis and no doubt a massive vote winner.

Exactly. Protecting over 9 million jobs plus loans and grants to businesses, mortgages holiday plus other help. 

But hasn't PM Johnson promises to fund the NHS and he passed NHS Funding Bill

 

 

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47 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Everyone outside the Downing Street bubble knows yesterday’s package was not enough, and the government will have to announce more stimulus in the autumn. Where I live, the non-food shops are almost empty and buses rarely have more than three passengers.

A lot of pubs and cafes have not reopened, and look abandoned. There are more vacant shops than I remember in 2009. 

Throw a hard no-deal Brexit into the mix against a backdrop of an already pandemic ridden economy and we;'re heading for a perfect storm.

Perceptions of government are formed early and this one is seen as having badly managed the coronavirus crisis and telling lies to boot, and will not be forgotten.

Have you moved to Russia? 

The Tories have 5yrs to change public perception and brides usually help.

 

45 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Tripe at warp factor 10. I  wish you wouldn't make this stuff up. 

What that the whole country are saying the financials have been great? 

You may not be across the details in Vladivostok, but the country just voted Tory in massive numbers, the Labour party have praised the furlough schemes and the reduction in VAT yesterday, its unanimous, they got the financials right for the many, a sure vote winner in years to come.

 

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25 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Any help to restaurants and pubs should be welcome. 

The rules for pubs is they are meant to take names, addresses and phone number for NHS track and trace as this link says https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-52977388

Just another sign some landlords not following the rules. 

Maybe so but is £10 enough to get people back? I think not.

Most of the people who are avoiding restaurants probably see a tenner each as a meaningless sum.

As for the rest

I disagree that public perception is the government have handled this pandemic badly in terms of the economy. They have been very pro-active thus far in protecting jobs and managing the fall out, but the real substance lies in how we come out of it on the other side, and largely so far it seems very much back to the old ways. There were some very good policies announced by Sunak yesterday but some of them fell way short of what was required.

The measly £3bn in green investment, compared to the £38bn by the German state, being one.

Will the £1000 grant per employee force employers to retain peoples jobs? Maybe those on minimum wage yes, but for most middle earners a £1000 grant will barely cover a fortnights worth of wages and they are expected to retain them from October to January minimum. They also added the caveat of "meaningful work" which I assume they'll assess by hours done, but quite how that work I don't know.

I like Sunak and think he comes out of this with some credibility, which is amazing in a cabinet that, I'll be brutally honest here, I now have 0 time for. It was a mistake to vote Tory but that is said with the benefit of hindsight- I trusted the opposition cabinet even less and don't think they would have done much better. What I don't think the opposition would have done is blatantly lie like is becoming the case with alarming regularity with Johnson and co. However the bottom line for me is that financially the Tory party are getting it right, from a public health point of view, and from a trust perspective, they have got it horribly wrong. 

 

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49 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Everyone outside the Downing Street bubble knows yesterday’s package was not enough, and the government will have to announce more stimulus in the autumn. Where I live, the non-food shops are almost empty and buses rarely have more than three passengers.

A lot of pubs and cafes have not reopened, and look abandoned. There are more vacant shops than I remember in 2009. 

Throw a hard no-deal Brexit into the mix against a backdrop of an already pandemic ridden economy and we;'re heading for a perfect storm.

Perceptions of government are formed early and this one is seen as having badly managed the coronavirus crisis and telling lies to boot, and will not be forgotten.

There's a bus stop at the end of my drive. I live quite near to town and before the crisis the buses would be half full at peak times and there would always a few people on most of the time. We have an hourly bus service and that has carried on.  Sometimes it's a single decker, sometimes a double decker.

At peak times now you may get two passengers on the bus coming out of town but most of the time the buses are empty. Going into town I never see anyone at the bus stop now, previously there was usually a couple of older people waiting lots of the time. 

The bus companies must be losing a fortune.

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5 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Maybe so but is £10 enough to get people back? I think not.

Most of the people who are avoiding restaurants probably see a tenner each as a meaningless sum.

As for the rest

I disagree that public perception is the government have handled this pandemic badly in terms of the economy. They have been very pro-active thus far in protecting jobs and managing the fall out, but the real substance lies in how we come out of it on the other side, and largely so far it seems very much back to the old ways. There were some very good policies announced by Sunak yesterday but some of them fell way short of what was required.

The measly £3bn in green investment, compared to the £38bn by the German state, being one.

Will the £1000 grant per employee force employers to retain peoples jobs? Maybe those on minimum wage yes, but for most middle earners a £1000 grant will barely cover a fortnights worth of wages and they are expected to retain them from October to January minimum. They also added the caveat of "meaningful work" which I assume they'll assess by hours done, but quite how that work I don't know.

I like Sunak and think he comes out of this with some credibility, which is amazing in a cabinet that, I'll be brutally honest here, I now have 0 time for. It was a mistake to vote Tory but that is said with the benefit of hindsight- I trusted the opposition cabinet even less and don't think they would have done much better. What I don't think the opposition would have done is blatantly lie like is becoming the case with alarming regularity with Johnson and co. However the bottom line for me is that financially the Tory party are getting it right, from a public health point of view, and from a trust perspective, they have got it horribly wrong. 

 

Until the virus is contained to a much greater degree than it is now I wouldn't eat in a restaurant, or a pub for that matter, if it was free. The government has made such a mess of the initial measures to deal with the virus that I fear we'll always be running to catch up. Obviously lots of different sectors of the economy were crying out for some sort of return to the " normal " but I think the relaxation has come too soon and we will pay a heavy price for that in the future, both in terms of the economy and nations health.

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Just now, Gav said:

Have you moved to Russia? 

The Tories have 5yrs to change public perception and brides usually help.

 

What that the whole country are saying the financials have been great? 

You may not be across the details in Vladivostok, but the country just voted Tory in massive numbers, the Labour party have praised the furlough schemes and the reduction in VAT yesterday, its unanimous, they got the financials right for the many, a sure vote winner in years to come.

 

Comparisons to Russia - you''re making yourself look silly.

About half of my acquaintances are still self-quarantining. Some admittedly because they're vulnerable, but most just because they are scared witless. What entices them to come out? There is no theatre, hardly any museums; dining out seems fraught with hazards, and anyway why they should leave themselves exposed to a potential call from the test and trace brigade? I too try to see only those I really want to see. 

The government has done a great job to scare my demographics into lockdown; now with lingering terror and a very patchy high street offer (how many establishments have actually reopened?), they want us to go out. Right. It will take more than half price meals.
 
Despite yesterday's giveaways the government's overall commitment to the economy resulting from coronoavirus is much lower than other hard hit nations, while it has chosen to bale out the low productivity hospitality sector but not manufacturing or the high productivity motor industry.
 

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Delve down into the detail of yesterday's giveaways and there some incredible figures.

The likely bill for PPE for frontline staff in the pandemic will be £15bn, said the Treasury, which is slightly more than the 2019-20 cost of all three of the great departments of state — the Home Office, the Foreign Office and the Treasury!!!

The concept of Tory economic competence was always a myth - this crisis has exposed it further


 

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2 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Delve down into the detail of yesterday's giveaways and there some incredible figures.

The likely bill for PPE for frontline staff in the pandemic will be £15bn, said the Treasury, which is slightly more than the 2019-20 cost of all three of the great departments of state — the Home Office, the Foreign Office and the Treasury!!!

The concept of Tory economic competence was always a myth - this crisis has exposed it further


 

last paragraph
 

The government has hit back against Jolyon Maugham’s pre-action protocol letters issued in June against Health Secretary Matt Hancock concerning multi-million pound contracts for personal protective equipment (PPE) awarded to Pest Fix Ltd of Littlehampton and Clandeboye Agencies Ltd, a chocolate wholesaler in Antrim.

Maugham challenged their lawfulness on the grounds that there was no evidence that either company had experience in supplying PPE and that the “extreme urgency” which dictated single-bidder contracts was of the department of health’s own making through a lack of forward planning........................

There is no suggestion of wrongdoing, necessarily. What this story seems to expose is the chaos and panic at the highest levels of government brought about mainly due to lack of forward planning.

This can surely be the only reason why Germany, with the second-highest number of contracts for PPE garments in Europe on the TED website and not all single-bidder, spent less than €20m in total on them, while Britain was reaching close to £1bn. Spain used single-bidder contracts just twice, spending under €915,000 in total.

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/ppe-procurement-the-government-responds-to-legal-action/

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25 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Delve down into the detail of yesterday's giveaways and there some incredible figures.

The likely bill for PPE for frontline staff in the pandemic will be £15bn, said the Treasury, which is slightly more than the 2019-20 cost of all three of the great departments of state — the Home Office, the Foreign Office and the Treasury!!!

The concept of Tory economic competence was always a myth - this crisis has exposed it further

A real shame that we don't have an effective opposition to point this out. They should be constantly pointing out that we are heading into a deep Tory recession and that the Tories built an economy on sand. Sadly the Labour party doesn't seem to have much to say about anything. It comes to something when Marcus Rashford has provided more effective opposition to the government than Starmer has been able manage. 

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2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Maybe so but is £10 enough to get people back? I think not.

Most of the people who are avoiding restaurants probably see a tenner each as a meaningless sum.

10 pounds per person. So you are going out for a family meal then yes the cost is reduce. That would help some family go out for meal and get out of the house for period of time. I am going out today for a meal to a pub and I will and have followed their guidelines so far. They already have my name, address and phone number. 

2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I disagree that public perception is the government have handled this pandemic badly in terms of the economy. They have been very pro-active thus far in protecting jobs and managing the fall out, but the real substance lies in how we come out of it on the other side, and largely so far it seems very much back to the old ways. There were some very good policies announced by Sunak yesterday but some of them fell way short of what was required.

I think the government has been very good in handling their economy side of this pandemic. Protecting jobs, mortgages, wages, etc.

Yes some good policies announced yesterday. They will be more in the autumn

2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

The measly £3bn in green investment, compared to the £38bn by the German state, being one.

Will the £1000 grant per employee force employers to retain peoples jobs? Maybe those on minimum wage yes, but for most middle earners a £1000 grant will barely cover a fortnights worth of wages and they are expected to retain them from October to January minimum. They also added the caveat of "meaningful work" which I assume they'll assess by hours done, but quite how that work I don't know.

on the 3 billion pounds in green investment is a start with more to come when we have Autumn statement I would imagine, 

Hopefully most employers will take back their staff back from Furlough. 1,000 pounds is something to incentive for  businesses to keep staff. Hopefully by January we have economy going in the right direction. 

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

10 pounds per person. So you are going out for a family meal then yes the cost is reduce. That would help some family go out for meal and get out of the house for period of time. I am going out today for a meal to a pub and I will and have followed their guidelines so far. They already have my name, address and phone number. 

I think the government has been very good in handling their economy side of this pandemic. Protecting jobs, mortgages, wages, etc.

Yes some good policies announced yesterday. They will be more in the autumn

on the 3 billion pounds in green investment is a start with more to come when we have Autumn statement I would imagine, 

Hopefully most employers will take back their staff back from Furlough. 1,000 pounds is something to incentive for  businesses to keep staff. Hopefully by January we have economy going in the right direction. 

Thought you weren't going to the pub for months when 'its safe'?

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I think the government has been very good in handling their economy side of this pandemic. Protecting jobs, mortgages, wages, etc.

Yes some good policies announced yesterday. They will be more in the autumn

on the 3 billion pounds in green investment is a start with more to come when we have Autumn statement I would imagine, 

 

This is a party political broadcast on behalf of the Conservative party

Meanwhile in the real world John Lewis and Boots to cut 5,000 jobs

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53348519

A £10 meal voucher won't help those poor families

Sunak needs to do more to create new long-term jobs rather than turbocharging consumption and maintaining the housing bubble... We're throwing so much money at this and yet a lot of it is just like a quick fix of crack.

For example, Germany has committed tens of billions to invest in advanced industries like hydrogen power, AI and quantum computing... that's how you cultivate long term growth, s

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2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

. 1,000 pounds is something to incentive for  businesses to keep staff. 

Its not really an incentive is it.

If you own a business that has say 50 people.  If the work is there for them, they are brought back irrespective of this £1k, because the hours are there.  

If the work isnt there then what is £50k when ypu have to pay them wages(×50)  for the next 3+ months for work that isnt there?

Unless I'm missing something.    It might benefit a very small florist employing a student or two but for any SME im not sure it will mean anything. 

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12 minutes ago, Kie_BRFC said:

Thought you weren't going to the pub for months when 'its safe'?

The pub I am going to is very safe and the measures the landlord has taken. Plus we are going late afternoon so will be less busy I would imagine. it is Covid safe. 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Its not really an incentive is it.

If you own a business that has say 50 people.  If the work is there for them, they are brought back irrespective of this £1k, because the hours are there.  

If the work isnt there then what is £50k when ypu have to pay them wages(×50)  for the next 3+ months for work that isnt there?

Unless I'm missing something.    It might benefit a very small florist employing a student or two but for any SME im not sure it will mean anything. 

In the meantime many perfectly viable businesses will be pocketing an extra £1,000 they don't need for every person they furloughed.

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2 hours ago, only2garners said:

In the meantime many perfectly viable businesses will be pocketing an extra £1,000 they don't need for every person they furloughed.

This is how I saw it too.

McDonalds for example will make a fortune, and their business interests didn't get hit as much as a small engineering firm in Blackburn, in relative terms.

I think this 1k falls way short of protecting that particular element of people.

I do think the creation of more career coaches, the 'kickstart' campaign and the policies geared towards the younger audience were all very good though.

I will agree with Jim on this one too, we should be looking at investing more money into future-proof technologies as opposed to building for the sake of building. Spending tens of millions on double glazing doesn't cut the mustard when Germany and other EU nations are spending billions on advancement technology, even if it does keep a few people in a job for a few years. There seems to be very little forward-thinking, which is exactly what the recovery from this pandemic cried out for. 

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My son works for a passenger handling company at Manchester Airport. Understandably the vast majority of staff have been furloughed for the duration - he was one of the last to stop in early May and will be one of the early ones back in August. Inevitably there are going to be redundancies at some time over the next few months. I can't imagine the firm is going to opt to keep some extra people on as the furlough scheme winds down and stops just to get £1,000pp from the Government. But they will get thousands for all the staff furloughed but which they end up keeping on, but the £1,000 won't make a blind bit of difference.

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6 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

The pub I am going to is very safe and the measures the landlord has taken. Plus we are going late afternoon so will be less busy I would imagine. it is Covid safe. 

 

 

Is it as safe as you said mass gatherings were?

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25 minutes ago, den said:

Is it as safe as you said mass gatherings were?

Still going on about that Den? Shame you can't and won't move on until you are proven right! 

Its was extremely safe in the pub where I went for my meal. Its was a great food and service. 

Not many people but we did at 3.30pm.so they wouldnt be many people there. 

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