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13 hours ago, Blue blood said:

First off mate I really hope you and yours are ok. Really hoping there's nothing. 

Thanks for that comment

13 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Your arguments are appalling. The highlighted shows the small mindedness of the approach. Surely we should go with the best way which may or may not be "ours". 

Really disagree with the rest of the post too. People will make their own choices - yes but their choices affect others. Potentially hurt and kill others. So yeah, it matters. 

You say people will disagree about the job the government is doing but it's not just random opinions is it? We can compare with what WHO and other countries have done. To me listening more to WHO and actually enforcing no clubs/bars would be 2 steps in the right direction. 

I don't call them arguments but my point of views. 

The government follow the Chief Medical and scientist officers of the country. 

The latest opinions show that the country is backing the approach of the government and backing Johnson. I have posted the opinion polls in Politics thread

13 hours ago, Mike E said:

Yes, because they took two weeks longer than any other country to follow WHO advice.

But we are behind countries like Italy and Spain cos we at least a couple of weeks behind them as OldEwoodBlue has said before

13 hours ago, Mike E said:

And with a father who WILL be killed if he gets this, I have no choice but to be pissed off. Not with you, with our 'government'. I would be just as pissed off with a Labour government before you go down that avenue.

I really hope that your Father is ok and will be ok in the future

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31 minutes ago, den said:

But you and others were happy with a strategy that was heading towards a quarter of a million deaths Gav.

The 'strategy' has changed on numerous occasions since testing started in January, thats the nature of this crisis and it will change again over the coming weeks and months.

To say that posters are happy with deaths is just silly, almost as silly as the Tory bashers trying to score points with little more than twitter and The Guardian for information.

 

 

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This isn't about scoring points but a discussion on the government's poor response to a global health crisis.

I'll throw in another likellihood here.

In one ear Johnson has his science advisers telling him what to do and in the other he has big business and Tory donors telling him to keep the economy going whatever the cost.

Then there is the insurance companies who will have to pay out compensation if the government orders businesses to close but do not have to pay out if businesses close voluntarily. 

Which people do you think he'll listen to?

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3 hours ago, Gav said:

Johnson is taking his lead from the experts Jim, I know that doesn’t fit into the narrative but it’s a fact and is exactly how it should be.

For his part Boris did say we will hopefully be on top of this Virus in 12wks, that’s a measure you can actually judge him on......(although that will have come from the experts also).

Andy Burnham was excellent last night on QT, raised some very real issues for people impacted by Covid19, NHS staff and local councils. Matt Hancock was also good, seems to have a plan and will hopefully act quicker on a number of the issues Andy raised.

 

excellent points again Gav. Johnson is listening to the Chief Medical officer and the Chief Scientist officer are saying and the model they are listening to. 

Looking at the opinion polls that saying the public is happy with Johnson's performance on this subject and many others. 

Yes he was 'hopefully' being the key word. People will say he said he will been on top of the virus in 12 weeks time. 

Yes Andy Burnham and Matt Hancock both very good on Question time last night

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya,people will. Unfortunately there are many idiots and that's becoming more apparent to people than ever. 

Don't bother responding to me. You are going on the blocked list. 

You have said I going on your blocked list then you reply to me after saying this. very strange

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Many events were already banned at that point. So I don't understand what you mean by hindsight in relation to Cheltenham. 

many events? The football was still going on at that stage until Friday dinner time, Rubgy league went ahead as aswell as many horse racing meetings. 

Work it out. 

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19 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes Andy Burnham and Matt Hancock both very good on Question time last nightt. 

Got to disagree on MH. He didn't have a grasp of the numbers on ventilators and he looked junior compared to Burnham (who I'm not a fan of really)

I shouldn't really watch episodes of The Thick of It before Question Time........

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16 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

This isn't about scoring points but a discussion on the government's poor response to a global health crisis.

I'll throw in another likellihood here.

In one ear Johnson has his science advisers telling him what to do and in the other he has big business and Tory donors telling him to keep the economy going whatever the cost.

Then there is the insurance companies who will have to pay out compensation if the government orders businesses to close but do not have to pay out if businesses close voluntarily. 

Which people do you think he'll listen to?

The vast majority of insurance policies for business will not pay out in either event, thats the reality of the situation as many currently find it.

As for supporting big business, did you not here the the Chancellor scrap business rates for the rest of the year for all retailers, hospitality sectors and leisure sectors? Hardly looking after big business alone with that one is he? Loans to help with cash flow for business, mortgage holidays for the man/woman in the street.

He's also going to announce further help later today which could see changes to PAYE, it could mean people paying no tax over the coming months to help see them through, but we will see on that one.

Its an awful situation we find ourselves in, I feel for the families losing loved ones, but I believe the government are doing all they can.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Gav said:

The 'strategy' has changed on numerous occasions since testing started in January, thats the nature of this crisis and it will change again over the coming weeks and months.

To say that posters are happy with deaths is just silly, almost as silly as the Tory bashers trying to score points with little more than twitter and The Guardian for information.

 

 

The strategy changed from one that was leading to 250,000 deaths Gav. Keeping pubs open could cost more lives, agreed?

Edited by den

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Tim Martin saying pubs should be kept open, obviously meaning people should keep going. Government refusing to criticise him for it.
I wonder why?

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17 minutes ago, Gav said:

The vast majority of insurance policies for business will not pay out in either event, thats the reality of the situation as many currently find it.

If the airline cancels my trip to the US in September I get my ,money back and the airline claims its money back through insurance. If I cancel it I don't..

Government is not going to force businesses to close unless it has to. That's the reality.

 

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Just now, den said:

Tim Martin saying pubs should be kept open, obviously meaning people should keep going. Government refusing to criticise him for it.
I wonder why?

He's a Tory donor?

But the apologists say the government cannot do any more

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Just now, den said:

Tim Martin saying pubs should be kept open, obviously meaning people should keep going. Government refusing to criticise him for it.
I wonder why?

Do you think the likes of Dominic Cummins or Pritti Pattel, or others of their ilk in and around Johnson care about the sick and old dying if it doesn't directly impact them? 

I have always said I like Johnson. He was good presenting HIGNFY. At the moment he looks completely out of his depth. 

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Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

 

I have always said I like Johnson. He was good presenting HIGNFY. At the moment he looks completely out of his depth. 

Yep, he was very funny. The joke was over when he entered No 10

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12 minutes ago, den said:

The strategy changed from one that was leading to 250,000 deaths Gav. Keeping pubs open could cost more lives, agreed?

Italy is almost in total lock down and has thousands of cases, we have more people in the supermarkets than the pubs, but to answer your question yes it COULD, but we simply don't know at this stage, the scientists haven't advised to close them, yet.

 

 

 

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quite a big increase in suspected cases today but still taking 48 hours for these to be confirmed.  worries amongst nurses about the amount of time suspected cases are being kept in multi bed bays before they are being isolated

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26 minutes ago, Gav said:

Italy is almost in total lock down and has thousands of cases, we have more people in the supermarkets than the pubs, but to answer your question yes it COULD, but we simply don't know at this stage, the scientists haven't advised to close them, yet.

 

 

 

We don’t know if people mingling in pubs will cause deaths?   The scientists and government have advised people to stay away from pubs because of that very reason - it spreads the virus and will kill people. 

Come on Gav.

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41 minutes ago, den said:

Tim Martin saying pubs should be kept open, obviously meaning people should keep going. Government refusing to criticise him for it.
I wonder why?

This is why I don't buy the whole "he's following the scientists" guff. This is in clear contradiction to government advice yet nothing will be said, much less done. Once again it shows we have a spineless lot at the top. 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Herd immunity isn't pseudo science. It's a real thing.The government's strategy made sense provided the numbers were manageable. Unfortunately they massively got the numbers wrong on infection rates and the % that needed access to ICU which meant the cost of herd immunity would be 250k deaths.

How they got that so wrong is really really really concerning, not least because there was so much data available and examples from other countries. And we critically need quality forecasting as this won't be the last epidemic we face. There needs to be a major inquiry once we are out the other side of this. We also clearly need to give much more powers and resources to the WHO or another international agency to co-ordinate international action.

Herd immunity is a real thing, the pseudo science element comes in when they are expecting it to occur with a virus that had no previous and no vaccine. It was an assumption to believe herd immunity would kick in after 60% of the UK's population caught and either recovered/died from the virus.

And yes there does need to be an inquiry. The people responsible for that strategy should resign imo.

Ps, they are still ignoring data and the track, trace and quarantine methods from other countries. Bit scary considering what's going on in Italy.

Edited by booth

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14 hours ago, Inglorious basturk said:

I’m not bloody not goin to the bloody pub 

Tha bloody won't if you get pneumonia.

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1 hour ago, 47er said:

A really silly response Gav. Surprised at you. If Denmark is smaller then it has fewer people to deal with it but its succeeding apparently.

"its what happens here that matters" EH? You mean we can only discuss events here and not use other countries as a point of reference?!!!

Keep digging Gav, you are way off here.

Size is a factor regarding Denmark, but I'd argue culture has played a much bigger part. The Danes are well known for their Scandinavian collective stance on life willing to act as a group. Your average Brit likes a bit more independence.

I find it odd that pubs are still open. Social distancing and regular hand washing will stop disease progression - breaking the chain - but it needs to be well implemented.

The USA is all over the place. Trump says one thing then does another. Some states are following the Italy model, others aren't doing much. There aren't many reported cases in my state but schools statewide have been closed for a week. The same happened to pubs and restaurants on Tuesday. Hospitals will be short of supplies though if it does kick off. Nursing homes are on a genuine lockdown too. The worry is if there are outbreaks in those places it will quickly overwhelm hospitals.

Pundits and experts alike are offering the opinion that the USA should offer a regionalised approach - I'm sure partly because Trump has bungled his response spectacularly. The country is so big that what happens in one place may not be happening in another. There are vast areas of America with little or no people. Their chances of getting coronavirus are much slimmer than those in already affected places.  

Media reports from the USA may well be skewed. New York is the hardest hit, yet as it is the country's media hub loads of reporters bunkered in at home are writing more and more disaster laced stories.

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13 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

JLR to shut down all UK plants. The economic damage from this crisis will last much longer than the virus itself

And then there’s the economic self harm of Brexit. We should cancel it 

I thought they would be knocking out more 3-D printed ventilators by now Jim.

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Posted (edited)

I just listened to a dentist on the radio. Absolutely no guidance as to what to do from the powers that be. I cancelled my appointment for last Monday but what do I do about this Wednesday's appointment.

Just heard on the radio that we'll need the social isolation  to carry on for 12 months. Unbelievable. We'll be back to living in caves. Johnson was saying 3 months yesterday. Do they actually know what they're doing ?

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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Tim Martin is a twat!

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6 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Has herd immunity been proven to work for this particular virus though? 

Well no because it's a totally new virus. But the basic principles of herd immunity are as solid as gravity.

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