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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

I think that the Russian's are a fine people, yes. And at the moment I think that they have one of the more impressive leaders on the world stage.

Go on I'll bite.....

Supporting/funding terrorism around the globe - Very impressive

Supporting Assad's use of chemical weapons on his own people in Douma, then Russia going to the Hague to defend/deny the actions, lying - Very impressive

Throwing political opponents in jail and murdering others that dare to speak out - Very impressive

On going persecution of LGBT people - Very impressive

Chemical attacks in Salisbury - Very impressive

Thats just off the top of my head and I've not even started on Crimea.

Putin is a bully, he feeds off the weak and if he wasn't around, the world would be a much better place. 

Edited by Gav

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Just now, 47er said:

Well I did ask you a simple question and although you've had plenty to say throughout this thread you've avoided answering. Clarification would be appreciated.

See  I think its every bit as bad as it seemed. we all thought we were over the worst and its coming back strongly. Even in New Zealand they are reinstating restrictions they had relaxed and they were infection free for many weeks. Although we place our hopes in vaccines, (those of us who don't think its all a hoax to get us all to be vaccinated)  this could go on for years for all I know. So the question:

 

  Inglorious basturk said: 

It could however quantify that Covid wasn’t as deadly was they wanted us to think when that suited 

As who wanted us to think? 

 

 

Sorry that wasn’t avoided on purpose. I think the governments of countries are playing a role in the narratives via the media , first it’s all death and ventilators then that’s old news , then excess deaths now we get this shit about making deaths up. 

New Zealand is a good example . 4 people and there is melt down . Ardern has played a blinder with the sanctimony card , frown personal experience it’s almost impossible to not social distance in nz

 
now the hospitals aren’t busy the deaths are severely reduced and the vast majority of cases are asymptomatic I don’t feel there is too much to worry about.  Our worries come when despite this we are told what to do an not to and the massive mental strain it’s putting on people 

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Posted (edited)

I've "liked" your post Gav so I agree that all you've said is true.

But some perspective. When the Soviet Union collapsed, the EU promised it would not woo former Soviet states to join them for the foreseeable future.

We (because we were part of the EU at the time) broke our word almost immediately. The Russians were left broken and humiliated. There were massive economic challenges facing them and enormous poverty. Did we help them on a humanitarian basis? No, we did not. We abandoned their people to their fate'gathered up their former satellites and assumed that was the end of Russia as a world power.

 Putin watched all this and vowed to get revenge and make Russia's voice count again. Hence Crimea, Assad and even Salisbury.

I don't approve of what Russia has been up to but I can understand it. Had the West acted with more humanity and, frankly, brains, this wouldn't have happened.

 

Edited by 47er

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6 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

Sorry that wasn’t avoided on purpose. I think the governments of countries are playing a role in the narratives via the media , first it’s all death and ventilators then that’s old news , then excess deaths now we get this shit about making deaths up. 

New Zealand is a good example . 4 people and there is melt down . Ardern has played a blinder with the sanctimony card , frown personal experience it’s almost impossible to not social distance in nz

 
now the hospitals aren’t busy the deaths are severely reduced and the vast majority of cases are asymptomatic I don’t feel there is too much to worry about.  Our worries come when despite this we are told what to do an not to and the massive mental strain it’s putting on people 

i just can't agree with you. NZ came down very hard on defeating the virus from the beginning and is determined not to let it get a foothold again.They have been consistent.

You're putting the blame for a perceived over-reaction on governments and the media? I don't find that convincing.

Any government is a victim in this situation----illness, deaths, massive recession are all making it hard for them to be re-elected surely? They'd prefer to be without it. Those governments which have underplayed the crisis eg USA, Brazil etc  have huge infection stats and are consequently in trouble.

The media are simply reporting events in their own way as they always do?

 

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You want Russian vaccine? Very good vaccine, very nice. 

Be interesting to see how this plays out. It doesn't seem the rest of the world are taking it very seriously...

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49 minutes ago, 47er said:

I've "liked" your post Gav so I agree that all you've said is true.

But some perspective. When the Soviet Union collapsed, the EU promised it would not woo former Soviet states to join them for the foreseeable future.

We (because we were part of the EU at the time) broke our word almost immediately. The Russians were left broken and humiliated. There were massive economic challenges facing them and enormous poverty. Did we help them on a humanitarian basis? No, we did not. We abandoned their people to their fate'gathered up their former satellites and assumed that was the end of Russia as a world power.

 Putin watched all this and vowed to get revenge and make Russia's voice count again. Hence Crimea, Assad and even Salisbury.

I don't approve of what Russia has been up to but I can understand it. Had the West acted with more humanity and, frankly, brains, this wouldn't have happened.

 

Couldn't agree more 47er.

But the original point was about Putin being one of the worlds most impressive leaders - That is absolute bunkum, he's a murdering tyrant who will stop at nothing to remain in power, very dangerous and quiet the opposite of a great world leader. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Inglorious basturk said:

I think the governments of countries are playing a role in the narratives via the media , first it’s all death and ventilators then that’s old news , then excess deaths now we get this shit about making deaths up. 

To put this into some perspective for you, even allowing for 10% of deaths not actually being directly caused by Covid alone, we've lost a town the size of Darwen or Accrigtnton to this virus, an entire towns population has been killed by Covid19, think about that.

The last thing this Tory government wanted to do was close down the country and destroy the economy, this is very real, your point makes little or no sense to me.

To me you're falling just short of calling the entire episode a hoax, I can tell you categorically this isn't a hoax.

Edited by Gav

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1 hour ago, 47er said:

I've "liked" your post Gav so I agree that all you've said is true.

But some perspective. When the Soviet Union collapsed, the EU promised it would not woo former Soviet states to join them for the foreseeable future.

We (because we were part of the EU at the time) broke our word almost immediately. The Russians were left broken and humiliated. There were massive economic challenges facing them and enormous poverty. Did we help them on a humanitarian basis? No, we did not. We abandoned their people to their fate'gathered up their former satellites and assumed that was the end of Russia as a world power.

 Putin watched all this and vowed to get revenge and make Russia's voice count again. Hence Crimea, Assad and even Salisbury.

I don't approve of what Russia has been up to but I can understand it. Had the West acted with more humanity and, frankly, brains, this wouldn't have happened.

 

The people in those States wanted to join the EU and NATO.

They applied and were admitted.

It is an obscenity to suggest Russia was somehow duplicitously treated.

 

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48 minutes ago, Gav said:

he's a murdering tyrant

He's KGB Gav and will never change.

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15 minutes ago, philipl said:

The people in those States wanted to join the EU and NATO.

They applied and were admitted.

It is an obscenity to suggest Russia was somehow duplicitously treated.

 

Nonsense Philip. Everything I said is true.

It should have been done in such a way that Russia did not feel threatened or humiliated.

Its called diplomacy

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46 minutes ago, Gav said:

To put this into some perspective for you, even allowing for 10% of deaths not actually being directly caused by Covid alone, we've lost a town the size of Darwen or Accrigtnton to this virus, an entire towns population has been killed by Covid19, think about that.

The last thing this Tory government wanted to do was close down the country and destroy the economy, this is very real, your point makes little or no sense to me.

To me you're falling just short of calling the entire episode a hoax, I can you categorically this isn't a hoax.

I can’t categorically say  its a hoax but you can’t categorically it isn’t 

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4 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

I can’t categorically say  its a hoax but you can’t categorically it isn’t 

Yes I can and I have done IG.

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Posted (edited)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53748278

Owing to the pandemic, finally, the UK is world beating at something. Well done Johnson, a credit to you and your party and the country.

And the oaf has reacted by ... going on a two week holiday.........and a 2-week quarantine.

Edited by jim mk2

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Just like you wont answer why Russia havent conducted phase 3 trials if this supposedly vaccine works. Plus no data has been released on vaccine. So why not?

I have no idea Chaddy that is not really a question for me but for the people overseeing the vaccine. 

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

You only have to look at the Salisbury NovIchok attack. Which Russia is likely authorised ìt from the government. Which you wont accept. God knows why you love Russia so much

Likely. Well with evidence like that who could possibly argue.

2 hours ago, Gav said:

Supporting/funding terrorism around the globe - Very impressive

Such as?

2 hours ago, Gav said:

Supporting Assad's use of chemical weapons on his own people in Douma, then Russia going to the Hague to defend/deny the actions, lying - Very impressive

False flag attack do some reading on it and you will quickly see that. Russia should be praised for their actions in Syria as they have defeated an evil terrorist jihadi organisation who posed a great danger to the world.

2 hours ago, Gav said:

Throwing political opponents in jail and murdering others that dare to speak out - Very impressive

Oh dear. Another weak unsubstantiated argument used by Russophobes.

2 hours ago, Gav said:

On going persecution of LGBT people - Very impressive

There is no persecution. It is perfectly legal to be gay in Russia.

2 hours ago, Gav said:

Chemical attacks in Salisbury - Very impressive

Depends if you believe that they were responsible for it. Personally I don't.

2 hours ago, Gav said:

Thats just off the top of my head and I've not even started on Crimea.

The same Crimea that voted overwhelmingly to become part of Russia again? 

2 hours ago, Gav said:

Putin is a bully, he feeds off the weak and if he wasn't around, the world would be a much better place. 

I feel that the world is always a better place with a strong Russia. Is Putin perfectly absolutely not, I personally have issues with some of his domestic policies and there are better world leaders than him. However he is a damn sight better and more impressive than a lot of them.

Edited by Ewood Ace

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59 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

I can’t categorically say  its a hoax but you can’t categorically it isn’t 

You've been hedging around about this for some time and now we have it. You can't prove a negative for a start. Stupid rumours like this are irresponsible. Apparently a recent survey found that 8% of Britons believe Coronavirus has been deliberately spread by governments to force people to vaccinate.

I can't prove that isn't true either, nobody can, but I know its absolute bollocks. Everybody is now allowed to have their own pet theory and feel justified in acting on it. Like that rumour that Hillary Clinton was kidnapping children for sex trafficking and they were being kept in a barbers shop somewhere I can't remember. Some idiot drove hundreds of miles to shoot up the place! 

World's gone fucking bonkers. If more people believe this sort of tripe on social media we will never get rid of the disease. Scientists working round the clock to produce an effective virus and thousands of  idiots will refuse to take it when its available. So it'll always have fresh victims to feed on. I absolutely despair.

Wake up.

26 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

Well I’d rather keep an open mind 

Duh!

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1 hour ago, 47er said:

You've been hedging around about this for some time and now we have it. You can't prove a negative for a start. Stupid rumours like this are irresponsible. Apparently a recent survey found that 8% of Britons believe Coronavirus has been deliberately spread by governments to force people to vaccinate.

I can't prove that isn't true either, nobody can, but I know its absolute bollocks. Everybody is now allowed to have their own pet theory and feel justified in acting on it. Like that rumour that Hillary Clinton was kidnapping children for sex trafficking and they were being kept in a barbers shop somewhere I can't remember. Some idiot drove hundreds of miles to shoot up the place! 

World's gone fucking bonkers. If more people believe this sort of tripe on social media we will never get rid of the disease. Scientists working round the clock to produce an effective virus and thousands of  idiots will refuse to take it when its available. So it'll always have fresh victims to feed on. I absolutely despair.

Wake up.

Duh!

No need to be rude , when you do what I do and see some of the things I have working throughout then certain questions arise .

not to mention public domain stuff , the med certs the dubious death count Cummingsgate

Just makes you wonder . The world is a strange place 

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How are the excess deaths of Jan to July 2020 explained compared to the average for the corresponding period 2014 through to 2019?

It's just ludicrous to think it's anything other than Covid, just bonkers. 

The world certainly is a strange place, I grant you that.

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2 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

Depends if you believe that they were responsible for it. Personally I don't.

Lets keep it simple:

You don't think Russia/Putin was responsible for the Salisbury poisonings, despite what most people would view as overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Corbyn also didn't want to believe our own security services or the scientists at Porton Down, Lisa Nandy tore him a new one recently on that disaster.

How on earth can you claim Putin/Russia wasn't involved?

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1 minute ago, Gav said:

How on earth can you claim Putin/Russia wasn't involved?

There are a number of reasons why, particularly the evidence or rather lack of that has been produced and the extremely inconsistent 'official' account.

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4 hours ago, Gav said:

Couldn't agree more 47er.

But the original point was about Putin being one of the worlds most impressive leaders - That is absolute bunkum, he's a murdering tyrant who will stop at nothing to remain in power, very dangerous and quiet the opposite of a great world leader. 

There's a 3 part Documentary on All4 called Putin;A Russian spy story that shows how he came to power and how people up against him in Russian politics have been dealt with.he's not a man to make angry,you usually end up 6 feet under.

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5 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

There are a number of reasons why, particularly the evidence or rather lack of that has been produced and the extremely inconsistent 'official' account.

Yes, go on then?

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Just now, Gav said:

Yes, go on then?

Go on then what?

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