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6 minutes ago, broadsword said:

Are you talking about Azd1222? 

Because the trial is currently undergoing it's placebo controlled. So if the active drug is a placebo then there should be no difference in efficacy and it shouldn't get approved

 

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04516746

No I mean that any vaccine rustled up now can’t be totally legit and is just to placate people , there is no way it could be done this quickly .... so I’ve probably misappropriated the word ‘placebo ‘ .... unless it really is a placebo 

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I was thinking there wouldn't be one before next September. But, if they get one through regulatory submission before then, fair play to them. If it's not efficacious, or if it's unsafe, then the proof will be in the data sent to the fda and the fda, ema etc won't approve. If it gets approved, you're talking about a mass vaccination program... Just to placate people? Sounds rather far - fetched to me

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3 minutes ago, broadsword said:

I was thinking there wouldn't be one before next September. But, if they get one through regulatory submission before then, fair play to them. If it's not efficacious, or if it's unsafe, then the proof will be in the data sent to the fda and the fda, ema etc won't approve. If it gets approved, you're talking about a mass vaccination program... Just to placate people? Sounds rather far - fetched to me

No I’m saying that if they can just get out what they have it will get the ball rolling to move on else where . 
having said that everything we seem to have to deal with now is far fetched 

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There's always a drive to get drugs through approval as quickly as possible. I've seen it first hand, companies rushing to get drugs through approval and it's counter productive, because the regulator knocks it back,and it ends up taking longer to get an approval. 

You can't just "get out what you have", it really doesn't work that way

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3 minutes ago, broadsword said:

There's always a drive to get drugs through approval as quickly as possible. I've seen it first hand, companies rushing to get drugs through approval and it's counter productive, because the regulator knocks it back,and it ends up taking longer to get an approval. 

You can't just "get out what you have", it really doesn't work that way

Well fair enough you clearly know your shit , I guess I was just under the  impression that a decent vaccine is decades work . 
 

maybe ... and only just a maybe it’s not that different to other flu vaccines 

some lines of thought would suggest there is nothing novel about it 

Edited by Inglorious basturk

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Yeah, as I say, I was thinking eighteen months minimum. I don't know what the status of the project is, it may not get approved yet. 

I can only think it's an easy thing to defeat. It's a respiratory virus, I guess companies have had decades of coming up with 'flu cures. It may well be a variant on a theme. I will admit, research is not an area I've really had much involvement in at all. 

I've always had two attitudes right from the start. One, I'm not the lockdown police, I'm not going to lecture people. Two, I'm not going to form an instant judgement on this thing, because I just don't know enough. Yeah, lockdown is bloody frustrating, they should've used the time lockdown bought much better, but this govt is a clown show. I think there has to be an independent enquiry after all this is done with, so that God forbid, this ever happens again, we handle it much much better. But in all honesty, I've been working myself so hard this year, it's been mentally tough on me everything that's gone on. I've been under a lot of pressure at times. So the last thing I've wanted to do is to start digging into the stats on corona. I'd rather be safe than sorry, but what had been on my mind for some tone is, how will we exit from this thing? The UK govt just seems to be reactive 

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Just now, broadsword said:

Yeah, as I say, I was thinking eighteen months minimum. I don't know what the status of the project is, it may not get approved yet. 

I can only think it's an easy thing to defeat. It's a respiratory virus, I guess companies have had decades of coming up with 'flu cures. It may well be a variant on a theme. I will admit, research is not an area I've really had much involvement in at all. 

I've always had two attitudes right from the start. One, I'm not the lockdown police, I'm not going to lecture people. Two, I'm not going to form an instant judgement on this thing, because I just don't know enough. Yeah, lockdown is bloody frustrating, they should've used the time lockdown bought much better, but this govt is a clown show. I think there has to be an independent enquiry after all this is done with, so that God forbid, this ever happens again, we handle it much much better. But in all honesty, I've been working myself so hard this year, it's been mentally tough on me everything that's gone on. I've been under a lot of pressure at times. So the last thing I've wanted to do is to start digging into the stats on corona. I'd rather be safe than sorry, but what had been on my mind for some tone is, how will we exit from this thing? The UK govt just seems to be reactive 

I concur with most of that . My line of work has meant that I’ve been deep into Covid and has Made  me somewhat cynical about the whole thing , sadly professionally I can’t speak up about it ... I just end up venting on here . 

the whole thing has pushed the limits of the human psyche no matter who you are or what your thoughts 

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I've got to be careful what I say here, because some people here know my real name, but I've come close to breaking a few times this year. I'm one of those people that just keeping working harder and harder and are their own worst enemy. Thankfully after this coming week, I get a fortnight off. Not that I'm going anywhere! 🤣 A week off at the end of September was the first significant time I've had off this year. I'm majorly rinsed. 

There's a mental health epidemic coming for sure

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5 minutes ago, broadsword said:

I've got to be careful what I say here, because some people here know my real name, but I've come close to breaking a few times this year. I'm one of those people that just keeping working harder and harder and are their own worst enemy. Thankfully after this coming week, I get a fortnight off. Not that I'm going anywhere! 🤣 A week off at the end of September was the first significant time I've had off this year. I'm majorly rinsed. 

There's a mental health epidemic coming for sure

I couldn’t agree more re mental health .... yes I’ve to be careful . I’ve signed the official secrets act over a couple of things , didn’t really have a choice . I’d be out of a job if I didn’t . 

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1 hour ago, broadsword said:

Any vaccine should have to go through a stringent approvals process that came about partly because of thalidomide 

The guy is a marvel. The first time I saw him he opened the door of his car with his foot and then drove off ! His car had a steering wheel but he was obviously steering with his feet. To see the car turn a corner with the steering  wheel moving but no hands turning it was really weird.

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I bet I’m the only one on here who has actually been on a serious drug trial - and eventually sent evidence, with others,  to NICE in an appeal after it was rejected for front line use in the U.K. Successfully I might add.

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1 hour ago, den said:

I bet I’m the only one on here who has actually been on a serious drug trial - and eventually sent evidence, with others,  to NICE in an appeal after it was rejected for front line use in the U.K. Successfully I might add.

Which drug?

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2 hours ago, Inglorious basturk said:

I couldn’t agree more re mental health .... yes I’ve to be careful . I’ve signed the official secrets act over a couple of things , didn’t really have a choice . I’d be out of a job if I didn’t . 

You keep saying this...

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2 hours ago, Inglorious basturk said:

I couldn’t agree more re mental health .... yes I’ve to be careful . I’ve signed the official secrets act over a couple of things , didn’t really have a choice . I’d be out of a job if I didn’t . 

You can tell us, unless thats your real name Mr.Basturk

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15 minutes ago, Gav said:

So the question: are these lockdown restrictions working?

Blackburn with Darwen has been in tier 3 since its inception if I'm not wrong, yet here we are saying they are having a "surge" of infections. It has been in lockdown now for over 2 weeks has it not, which means we should be seeing a downturn. 

Funnily enough, the Ribble Valley is benefiting from it, probably because less key workers live there due to affordability and the majority of Ribble Valley residents are able to "work from home" because they are more office-based management positions (at a guess!).

Clearly the current rules are not working for everyone. It is draconian in its nature and does not even have the desired effects.

However, to put this into perspective, we are potentially talking about increasing the restrictions placed upon the residents of Blackburn with Darwen based on 3.62% of the town population having a positive test for Covid-19. This despite a 50% increase in mental health disorders due to it.

 

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1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

So the question: are these lockdown restrictions working?

Blackburn with Darwen has been in tier 3 since its inception if I'm not wrong, yet here we are saying they are having a "surge" of infections. It has been in lockdown now for over 2 weeks has it not, which means we should be seeing a downturn. 

Funnily enough, the Ribble Valley is benefiting from it, probably because less key workers live there due to affordability and the majority of Ribble Valley residents are able to "work from home" because they are more office-based management positions (at a guess!).

Clearly the current rules are not working for everyone. It is draconian in its nature and does not even have the desired effects.

However, to put this into perspective, we are potentially talking about increasing the restrictions placed upon the residents of Blackburn with Darwen based on 3.62% of the town population having a positive test for Covid-19. This despite a 50% increase in mental health disorders due to it.

 

Good post , it just wouldn’t be proportionate and as you say other issues are dwarfing the original one .

this hands face space thing , another Cummings 3 point bulletin . Which civil human doesn’t wash their hands or respect people’s personal space ?

 

it would be interesting to know what proportion of people are getting tested in various areas

Edited by Inglorious basturk

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The number of people I've seen using pub loos that don't wash their hands afterwards, unreal

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1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

So the question: are these lockdown restrictions working?

Blackburn with Darwen has been in tier 3 since its inception if I'm not wrong, yet here we are saying they are having a "surge" of infections. It has been in lockdown now for over 2 weeks has it not, which means we should be seeing a downturn. 

Funnily enough, the Ribble Valley is benefiting from it, probably because less key workers live there due to affordability and the majority of Ribble Valley residents are able to "work from home" because they are more office-based management positions (at a guess!).

Clearly the current rules are not working for everyone. It is draconian in its nature and does not even have the desired effects.

However, to put this into perspective, we are potentially talking about increasing the restrictions placed upon the residents of Blackburn with Darwen based on 3.62% of the town population having a positive test for Covid-19. This despite a 50% increase in mental health disorders due to it.

 

These current restrictions have been put in place to protect NHS and save lives, I think on the whole up to this point thats been successful, although every life lost is a tragedy.

The infection rates are going up, especially in older age groups and thats a real worry.

Just imagine what would have happened had no restrictions been put in place, hospitals would have been overrun by now, the death rate is not even worth thinking about...

I was speaking to someone earlier today who was in a pub in Lancashire over the weekend, the bar was busy, table service only, the owners kept bringing out sandwiches to get around the rules, once the table had left the sandwiches went back into the kitchen, unopened. This is completely missing the point, people are being asked to follow the rules because this virus kills people, its not a game of how you can get around the rules.

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Dropped my lad off at cinema(should these even be open?) on Saturday at the Middlebrook and it was heaving.  It felt like pre Christmas shopping .....People probably feel that all the non essential shops might shut do are going out in their droves to beat it.....😞

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