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Socially distance, wear a mask in public and regularly wash your hands properly. If everybody did this all of the time and cafes, in addition to restaurants, pubs and venues people generally socialise in, exercised appropriate levels of hygiene, there'd be no need for any lockdown of any description. Too many folk think it's either nonsense or selfishly doesn't concern them, that's the problem.

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50 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

So do we lock down forever ? It’s not affecting the majority of the population and a vaccine will be some way off 

Numbers are still rising. Lift the restrictions and they'll rise faster. Rising in Europe, border closures therefore still relevant.

Better safe than sorry.

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I went into my office for the first time since March today. Hands down the most covid secure place in the country. 

Upon arrival, in the lobby theres a table of goody bags with masks, hand sanister, gloves and a hook to open doors with (all optional). Big open plan office which even if full the desks are so big you're 1.5metres away from each other but now every other desk is off limits and you're preassigned one. One way systems everywhere, meeting room capacity is about 25% of what its normally at with chairs pre arranged and unable to be moved. 

Canteen staff come round and take your order and deliver it to your desk. Cleaners going round all day wiping handles and handrails etc. Strict rules in the kitchen to wipe everything down when you're done, sachets of milk rather than a big 2l carton. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, RoverDom said:

I went into my office for the first time since March today. Hands down the most covid secure place in the country. 

Upon arrival, in the lobby theres a table of goody bags with masks, hand sanister, gloves and a hook to open doors with (all optional). Big open plan office which even if full the desks are so big you're 1.5metres away from each other but now every other desk is off limits and you're preassigned one. One way systems everywhere, meeting room capacity is about 25% of what its normally at with chairs pre arranged and unable to be moved. 

Canteen staff come round and take your order and deliver it to your desk. Cleaners going round all day wiping handles and handrails etc. Strict rules in the kitchen to wipe everything down when you're done, sachets of milk rather than a big 2l carton. 

 

 

Ha I’ve been in my office since March and other than cursory bottles of sanitiser , nothing. Crazy when you consider who I work for 

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14 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

Crazy when you consider who I work for 

I'm dying to know. 

My spot, Health and Safety trumps absolutely everything even just in the offices. To the point of tedium to be honest 

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8 hours ago, 47er said:

Numbers are still rising. Lift the restrictions and they'll rise faster. Rising in Europe, border closures therefore still relevant.

Better safe than sorry.

Not death numbers . 
not proportionate 

 

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29 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

Not death numbers . 
not proportionate 

 

When, as forecast if restrictions are lifted, the young infect the old then the death rate will rise. What is proportionate to you?

I'm with trying to save as many lives as we can because they are all precious.

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Just now, 47er said:

When, as forecast if restrictions are lifted, the young infect the old then the death rate will rise. What is proportionate to you?

I'm with trying to save as many lives as we can because they are all precious.

Ok so what do you propose to get out of this ? At the moment lock downs while potentially protecting the vulnerable few are having a significant negative impact else where . 

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Just now, Inglorious basturk said:

Ok so what do you propose to get out of this ? At the moment lock downs while potentially protecting the vulnerable few are having a significant negative impact else where . 

The problems are that we've made a mess of it. Too many mixed messages, too many tiers, too many differences between different parts of the nation and a that terrible example set early on by Cummings. 

I'd go with Starmer's suggestion of a complete lockdown everywhere for 2 weeks.

What would you do apart from nothing?

 

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Just now, 47er said:

The problems are that we've made a mess of it. Too many mixed messages, too many tiers, too many differences between different parts of the nation and a that terrible example set early on by Cummings. 

I'd go with Starmer's suggestion of a complete lockdown everywhere for 2 weeks.

What would you do apart from nothing?

 

It is a difficult situation not helped by the fact that it was messed up from the start as a symptom of disaster capitalism.  
I think I’d try and put as much resource into protecting the vulnerable and allowing as many people who want to , to try and get things back on track as normally as possible 

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5 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

It is a difficult situation not helped by the fact that it was messed up from the start as a symptom of disaster capitalism.  
I think I’d try and put as much resource into protecting the vulnerable and allowing as many people who want to , to try and get things back on track as normally as possible 

Sounds good but how does it work? If you isolate them because they are vulnerable ---who looks after them and how?

Edited by 47er

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1 minute ago, 47er said:

Sounds good but how does it work? If you isolate them because they are vulnerable ---who looks after them and how?

I think the majority are likely to already be in homes hospices hospitals etc . 
Those with conditions they live with have to manage them on a day to day basis as they do anyway 

I think the elderly have earned the right to do a risk assessment to decide how much they want to shield themselves or not 

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23 minutes ago, 47er said:

I'm with trying to save as many lives as we can because they are all precious.

Can I count on you to back my campaign to ban all cars off the road, allowing only delivery drivers and public transport? 

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4 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

Can I count on you to back my campaign to ban all cars off the road, allowing only delivery drivers and public transport? 

Brace yourself for 

you can’t catch a car accident 

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4 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

Brace yourself for 

you can’t catch a car accident 

I'd love to see the value framework of grading deaths. 

- you cant catch a car crash so thats minus points for car crash 

-  you can catch flu but it's not in the headlines like covid so minus points there

- cancer is in the headlines but not contagious and takes longer to die from cancer than covid so again minus points there. 

- deaths as a result of being locked away in the home are worth 0 because they can be used to argue against lockdown.

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9 hours ago, RoverDom said:

I went into my office for the first time since March today. Hands down the most covid secure place in the country. 

Upon arrival, in the lobby theres a table of goody bags with masks, hand sanister, gloves and a hook to open doors with (all optional). Big open plan office which even if full the desks are so big you're 1.5metres away from each other but now every other desk is off limits and you're preassigned one. One way systems everywhere, meeting room capacity is about 25% of what its normally at with chairs pre arranged and unable to be moved. 

Canteen staff come round and take your order and deliver it to your desk. Cleaners going round all day wiping handles and handrails etc. Strict rules in the kitchen to wipe everything down when you're done, sachets of milk rather than a big 2l carton. 

 

 

Why do you think they've done that Dom? Put all the restrictions in place?

Can I ask, why on earth have you gone back to the office when the infections rates are rising, the number of deaths are rising and hospitals are running out of bed capacity? Its a genuine question, you probably have a very good reason for not working in the summer when the disease was more of less dormant, but going back now seems bonkers?

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17 minutes ago, Gav said:

Why do you think they've done that Dom? Put all the restrictions in place?

Can I ask, why on earth have you gone back to the office when the infections rates are rising, the number of deaths are rising and hospitals are running out of bed capacity? Its a genuine question, you probably have a very good reason for not working in the summer when the disease was more of less dormant, but going back now seems bonkers?

Interesting questions . I’ve not left the office , it’s fairly full , certainly nothing in place like Dom’s , social distancing is impossible . Is it a job that could be done at home ? Yes without a doubt . 
 

interesting thing , some people were sent to work from home ( underlying conditions )  not shielding .  Most are now really eager to get back in the office , they have seen that there have been hardly cases here ( 2) out of 150 . 
they want the routine , they don’t want their home to be their work place . Many day working from home is causing stress . 
 

i should add those 2 cases are the ones we know about and they did their best to sweep them under the carpet maybe there are more 

Edited by Inglorious basturk

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1 hour ago, RoverDom said:

Can I count on you to back my campaign to ban all cars off the road, allowing only delivery drivers and public transport? 

yep---only essential journeys allowed in a 2 week lockdown.

Nothing at all to do with your barmy analagy of comparing coronavirus deaths to road accidents though.

 

Edited by 47er

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30 minutes ago, Gav said:

Why do you think they've done that Dom? Put all the restrictions in place?

Can I ask, why on earth have you gone back to the office when the infections rates are rising, the number of deaths are rising and hospitals are running out of bed capacity? Its a genuine question, you probably have a very good reason for not working in the summer when the disease was more of less dormant, but going back now seems bonkers?

Number of reasons, theres a virus going around, they've got the resources to to do it, government department who probably couldn't be seen not to be taking it seriously and as an organisation its health and safety first, security second and value for money a distant third. 

As for the second question, we've been allowed to go back since September if we want but it's entirely optional. I went back in yesterday as a one off, there was some work to be done that was easier to work through face to face in a meeting room with a big screen and also some stuff I needed to collect from my desk. As I say though, very very covid secure, in an open plan that usually seats 42 (inefficient use of space, as could get double that in) there was 3 in yesterday. As an organisation, we decided to stay open as much as we can with no pressure to go into the office, specifically for those people who were struggling being housebound.

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3 minutes ago, 47er said:

yep---only essential journeys allowed in a 2 week lockdown.

Nothing at all to do with your barmy analagy of comparing coronavirus deaths to road accidents though.

 

2000 people die a year in road traffic accidents. You could vastly reduce that by banning cars from the road, if all life is precious, why dont we do that? 

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1 hour ago, Inglorious basturk said:

I think the majority are likely to already be in homes hospices hospitals etc . 
Those with conditions they live with have to manage them on a day to day basis as they do anyway 

I think the elderly have earned the right to do a risk assessment to decide how much they want to shield themselves or not 

I don't mind anybody who's supposed to be shielding just doing their own thing. That's after they've signed a form saying that when they get the virus they don't want any treatment and they just want to be left to die.

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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I don't mind anybody who's supposed to be shielding just doing their own thing. That's after they've signed a form saying that when they get the virus they don't want any treatment and they just want to be left to die.

Agreed but there would have to be a rigorous and accurate way of testing for this exact specific strain because at the moment it’s Ambiguous and picks up allsorts ( the test packs tell you as much ) , and we have seen it go on death certs without any real accurate reason . 

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13 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

2000 people die a year in road traffic accidents. You could vastly reduce that by banning cars from the road, if all life is precious, why dont we do that? 

I knew a man who was terribly allergic to wasps . He got stung , went into terrible shock and died. Every life is precious . Ban all wasps 

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10 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

2000 people die a year in road traffic accidents. You could vastly reduce that by banning cars from the road, if all life is precious, why dont we do that? 

Its not a pandemic is it? Driving accidents don't spread to other people and cause more accidents do they?

2000 deaths a year is regrettable indeed but the virus has killed over 44000 in Britain in 6-7 months and will carry on unless we break the cycle. 

We can and should reduce the road deaths and there are numerous ways we can do that but none of them are anything to do with stopping this virus.

People like you are dangerous, let's hope nobody listens to you.

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