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3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

PPE was needed asap. Right or wrong?

Yesterday you said there should be an investigation into how a middle man was paid £21m for doing next to Nothing.

Are you saying today that it’s fine for the government to give as much money as they like, to anyone they like - even if they are ignoring established companies in favour of new starts from their cronies?

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I also dont think anyone would care if usual processes werent followed, we maybe paid over the top etc. But if its found to have lined pockets thats just pure criminal and we should throw the book at them. 

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4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

PPE was needed asap. Right or wrong?

Jeez chaddy, it was needed but surely you must agree not at any cost?! The amounts involved are simply staggering, without any checks and balances.

Everything is talked about in £billions these days so I guess £21 million to some Spaniard to make a couple of phone calls is just small beer. Scandalous and criminal, no other way to describe it and I've been a Tory voter in the past!

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4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

PPE was needed asap. Right or wrong?

Proper preparation was needed. Operation Cygnet recommendations were ignored by Tory government.

Right or wrong?

Could have joined with EU to procure equipment at decent prices, refused on political grounds.

Right or wrong?

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Just now, darrenrover said:

but surely you must agree not at any cost?!

I imagine front line staff wouldnt be too happy if they turned up to work to be told "sorry gloves were to expensive cant have any today". I'm fine with 'at any cost' at the time so long as the lack of preparation that led to it gets the attention it deserves after. 

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Just now, RoverDom said:

I imagine front line staff wouldnt be too happy if they turned up to work to be told "sorry gloves were to expensive cant have any today". I'm fine with 'at any cost' at the time so long as the lack of preparation that led to it gets the attention it deserves after. 

....and a Miami jeweller would be the obvious first place to call to procure it in an emergency situation. It was similar to the emergency payment made to a freight forwarder to guarantee cross Channel ferry crossings, they didn't even own a punt or a rowing boat, never mind a ferry! A pattern is certainly emerging for me but each to their own.

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NiCfXEnX_bigger.jpg
 
The sums handed out in dodgy contracts to companies linked to ministers & advisers for PPE, testing - and most gratuitously of all, to PR firms alongside these supply contracts - are truly mind-boggling There needs to be an urgent corruption inquiry

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4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

PPE was needed asap. Right or wrong?

I'm surprised that you would want PPE from China, given that you have previously suggested that China deliberately spread the virus. You have also previously said you don't believe anything that comes out of China, said that Chinese made products aren't very good and you have also said that we should be very careful about doing business with China. So what has changed?

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To everyone posting the PPE was needed urgently- what was happening was DELAYING PPE supplies.

PPE which was not at the "right" ie inflated price was stopped from being supplied.

A Government friendly middleman was later inserted and then the deliveries were allowed.

That was happening at the highest level - my suspicion is Cummings was orchestrating it.

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Letter to the Prime Minister and Hancock on behalf of the good law project and the Runnymede trust (race relations).

They are sueing them over the appointments of Dido Harding and others into senior positions in govt without due procedures. In other “chumocracy” or “cronyism”.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SUww4RRuv6pBZcISOXTmdNNa2ZcUHGsm/view

Article in Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/21/boris-johnson-acted-illegally-over-jobs-for-top-anti-covid-staff

Edited by den

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In a few countries some of this lot would be getting put up against a wall and given a last cigarette. Of course corruption doesn't happen here , does it ?

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On 21/11/2020 at 07:06, chaddyrovers said:

PPE was needed asap. Right or wrong?

Of course, defending the indefensible again! I mean ignoring the fact that vast sums of money involved going to their mates might give most people cause for concern, they might think there's just a whiff of suspicion about the situation, such logic is flawed. 

1) ASAP is not exclusive of competence. After all if you needed a plumber asap then I might be available straight away but I am not qualified. You can sub in practically anything of import and see that competence and urgency are not mutually exclusive. 

2) The argument that there wasn't time to find anyone competent doesn't bare scrutiny as there were firms readily available. That's like me being in hospital and allowing the janitor to operate on me saying there were no medics around. 

3) At any cost? Again I am not sure that's true. Let's go back to the plumbing example - if someone quoted me a million quid to change my boiler I would look.elsewhere. And funnily enough I reckon I could get multiple quotes at the same time. So it's hard to see how money could not have been a factor.

Look I get politics is opinion and ideals based but corruption is corruption plain and simple. When it is excused by people they are saying right and wrong do not matter. 

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Apart from anything else @Blue blood, the fact something needs to be done urgently, doesn’t allow anyone to break the law.

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Just now, den said:

Apart from anything else @Blue blood, the fact something needs to be done urgently, doesn’t allow anyone to break the law.

Well yes, to you or I. 

But the fact is that the government is open to breaking the law if they don't like what they have agreed (combined with other illegal actions) means this isn't a consideration for them. 

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26 minutes ago, den said:

Apart from anything else @Blue blood, the fact something needs to be done urgently, doesn’t allow anyone to break the law.

The law only applies to " the little people ", you know that Den.

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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The law only applies to " the little people ", you know that Den.

What pisses me off is when the little people defend that situation.

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4 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

What pisses me off is when the little people defend that situation.

.....and continue to vote for them 

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45 minutes ago, den said:

Apart from anything else @Blue blood, the fact something needs to be done urgently, doesn’t allow anyone to break the law.

What laws do you think have been broken den?

As far as I’m aware they brought in emergency powers to fast track decision making on procurement, I’m not sure they broke any rules.

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56 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

At any cost? Again I am not sure that's true. Let's go back to the plumbing example -

Agree with most of your post apart from this bit. I seem to remember at the time, PPE running out in a matter of days, the general consensus was "whatever it costs get PPE to the front line" imagine how much stick they would get if we ran out cos we were trying to haggle a cheaper deal? 

You're right though that with UK suppliers ready to go its scandalous. 

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4 minutes ago, Gav said:

What laws do you think have been broken den?

As far as I’m aware they brought in emergency powers to fast track decision making on procurement, I’m not sure they broke any rules.

Read the Guardian article linked. It will tell you. 

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The PPE scandal is corruption at best, treason at worst. 
 

They have sold the tax payer down the swanny and used a pandemic to siphon money to themselves. They have effectively profited from death. 
 

The argument “anything to get PPE in” would suffice to me if we were in n a situation where we paid genuine companies over the odds for real tangible goods we could use. As it happens we haven’t received a lot of this PPE and most of the time they were given to inexperienced companies with links to Tories. It stinks. 

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27 minutes ago, Gav said:

What laws do you think have been broken den?

As far as I’m aware they brought in emergency powers to fast track decision making on procurement, I’m not sure they broke any rules.

Read my earlier link Gav. 
 

The good law project and the Runnymede trust are taking Johnson and Hancock to court. They believe laws have been broken.

Edited by den

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1 hour ago, RoverDom said:

Agree with most of your post apart from this bit. I seem to remember at the time, PPE running out in a matter of days, the general consensus was "whatever it costs get PPE to the front line" imagine how much stick they would get if we ran out cos we were trying to haggle a cheaper deal? 

You're right though that with UK suppliers ready to go its scandalous. 

Perhaps not brilliantly worded as your last paragraph sums up what I meant. What I meant was Dreams also puts it very well. 

IF that was the only option for it to come quickly cost wouldn't be a factor. As that wasn't the case then money matters. 

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