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3 hours ago, Gav said:

6077 deaths in Italy in just over a month and still people don’t get it.

We are running out of mortuary space in parts of this country already, it’s very real, stay at home for F sake.

If you don’t you’re contributing to the death and devastation that’s coming.....

 

To provide some balance here, the population in Italy in 2019 was recorded at approx 60.5 m 

The death rate for the same year was recorded as 10.566 deaths per 1000 head of population.

Unless I've misinterpreted the data that means approx 783,000 people died in Italy in 2019 or approx 65,200 per month. Whilst I dont know I'd also have thought that more people usually die over a month in February and March than say July and August.

It has also been admitted by one of the Chief Scientific Officers in Italy that one of the reasons why the rates in Italy might appear higher than in other Countries is that Italy record all deaths of people dying  WITH Corona virus as dying BECAUSE OF Corona virus whereas other Countries record their data differently. In fact on independent analysis only 12% of the deaths could be solely attributed to the virus.

So whilst the likes of Sky News like to provide us with a daily head count from each Country to ramp up the sense of panic, we need to know a lot more about these figures before we get a proper picture. Is it 6k extra deaths per month on top of the normal 65,200 (which would be a lot) or somewhat less?

What do we make of it all if it transpires  the overall death toll is virtually unchanged from normal and that overall people are merely dying with Corona virus at roughly the same rate as before albeit from  a differently recorded cause?

Or if  (perhaps more likely) there is a temporary spike  because the virus is targeting the most vulnerable first and all at once andthat by the end of the year the figures have balanced themselves out?

Edited by RevidgeBlue

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Don't know if people will be moaning in the morning since as far as I'm aware nearly all the taxi firms  in Blackburn have shut down.

Not sure if this is under orders or it's the owners shutting voluntarily because there's no work  but I'm not sure how a lot of key workers without a car will be expected to get to work or how people will be able to get to A and E in a rush if they have to or how people without a car will be able to get to and from the supermarket etc.

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6 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 I think Manufacturing and mail order companies should close down if my opinion regardless of government advise like many businesses have. I gave you example of this before

Why? Because it doesn't affect you if they close?

If those companies can still operate safely then they should remain open. 

There is a rise for demand in MANY mail order items that are helping people through this, I know because I work in the industry. They can't bob down the shops for home exercise equipment or garden toys for the kids as 2 examples. 

Also this may surprise you Chaddy but a hell of a lot of goods on sale in this country are imported from the far east and the like, working with 12 week lead times or longer. When this mess all ends we ALL need to be ready to hit the ground running and get economy back on its feet.

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I read out the government guidance to you on this directly this morning

and you rejected it.

 

Quote Tweet
 
5ovqIK49_normal.jpg
Michael Gove
 
@michaelgove
 
I wasn’t clear enough earlier, apologies. To confirm - while children should not normally be moving between households, we recognise that this may be necessary when children who are under 18 move between separated parents. This is permissible & has been made clear in the guidance

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Brazil is making a decent fist of handling the virus badly but the one country which has messed up more than the UK is America.

The implications of this are that the EU, and with three weeks' delay, the UK, will move to a South Korea/Japan controlled recovery but the Americas except Canada will need to be kept isolated for far longer.

The States is a headless chicken with the Governors deciding on lock downs State by State- problem being the cannot control diseased people from entering their States. Currently 19 out of 50 States have stringent restrictions with the probability that only mass die-offs are going to persuade the numptyville States to do anything.

Meantime, the idea that this is an Asian/European problem is going to pass.

On yesterday's numbers, the USA is:

US global rank in new cases/day: 1⃣
US global rank in total cases: 3⃣*
US global rank in new deaths/day: 4⃣*
US global rank in critical cases: 5⃣*
US global rank in total deaths: 6⃣*

* rising fast

 

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13 minutes ago, philipl said:

Brazil is making a decent fist of handling the virus badly but the one country which has messed up more than the UK is America.

The implications of this are that the EU, and with three weeks' delay, the UK, will move to a South Korea/Japan controlled recovery but the Americas except Canada will need to be kept isolated for far longer.

The States is a headless chicken with the Governors deciding on lock downs State by State- problem being the cannot control diseased people from entering their States. Currently 19 out of 50 States have stringent restrictions with the probability that only mass die-offs are going to persuade the numptyville States to do anything.

Meantime, the idea that this is an Asian/European problem is going to pass.

On yesterday's numbers, the USA is:

US global rank in new cases/day: 1⃣
US global rank in total cases: 3⃣*
US global rank in new deaths/day: 4⃣*
US global rank in critical cases: 5⃣*
US global rank in total deaths: 6⃣*

* rising fast

 

Plus things could go Mad Max there very quickly. Watched a report last night, they have lads waiting for this type of thing with stockpiles of weapons etc. Things could take a dramatic turn there very easily. 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel

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1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Plus things could go Mad Max there very quickly. Watched a report last night, they have lads waiting for this type of thing with stockpiles of weapons etc. Things could take a dramatic turn there very easily. 

Ah the 'end of the worlders' that have built bunkers, stockpiled weapons and survival food for when the apocalypse comes 🙄 They almost want a Zombie invasion so they can go all Walking Dead. Only in Amuuurica.

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10 hours ago, benhben said:

stop rising to him. Hes on the wind up....and succeeding.

I honestly don’t think he is!

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6 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

I honestly don’t think he is!

I understand how indirect deaths ensuing from a big recession might be caused, but it's conjecture, with little to no idea of how many deaths would occur, and an economic recession isn't directly responsible for deaths. With Coronavirus, we're talking about a physical health contagion that has a high chance of being resolved, and we already have some figures and strategies to pursue and give us hope that we can be rid of it with some short-term stringent measures - as well as fewer deaths, one would think.

As for the other cynical side of his argument, I doubt very much that absolutely every problem in the world has some sinister reason or plot behind it, as a few on here are insinuating. It's ironic that those who seem to want to see China punished for spreading the virus are those who think that Britain should remain relaxed and allow it to play its course, which would inevitably see us spread it to other countries if they weren't locked-down themselves. Imagine if China or every other country in the world took Britain's lead on this with their initial strategy. Beggars belief that some still think it's the way to go. 😧

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I've been extremely supportive of the governments handling of this crisis so far, I think they're doing an excellent job in these unprecedented times, but........

People need clarity on the working advice, I'm not sure why, its pretty clear to me and many millions of others that staying at home is the only option, but far to many need to be told what to do and the government advice has been contradictory and inadequate so far.

I see our friend Mike Ashley (sports direct) still had his Flannels clothing stores open yesterday up and down the country, putting his employees and their families at risk, I'd jail him like I said yesterday, make an example of the fool and he's not alone, plenty still putting profit over health, absolutely disgusting.

Edited by Gav

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For those moaning about having to stay indoors and being on lockdown my wife is working 3 12 hour shifts a week at the hospital and if you having to stay in doors and has a impact on your life for a month or 2 but it keeps her alive and stops her from getting the disease, keeps our 2 young kids with a mum then I have 2 words for you and make no apologies for them tough shit

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9 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

If the aim of a lockdown is in line with originally stated goals of slowing down the spread of the virus, then surely any lockdown, even a temporary one, will do that?

I don't know what you're on about Rev but he's talking about lifting the restrictions by Easter Monday! The rate of infection is rising fast, not declining!

New York in particular is looking at a massive increase. Complete madness.

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19 minutes ago, Gav said:

I've been extremely supportive of the governments handling of this crisis so far, I think they're doing an excellent job in these unprecedented times, but........

 

Welcome back Gav!

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Gav How can you support a government that put profit before public health by continuing to advocate a discredited and damaging herd immunity strategy instead of going into lockdown much earlier? 

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36 minutes ago, Peteb2014 said:

For those moaning about having to stay indoors and being on lockdown my wife is working 3 12 hour shifts a week at the hospital and if you having to stay in doors and has a impact on your life for a month or 2 but it keeps her alive and stops her from getting the disease, keeps our 2 young kids with a mum then I have 2 words for you and make no apologies for them tough shit

It's a shame that one or two self-absorbed personalities on here are far more interested in conspiracy theories, financial compensation from China, and "MY RIGHTS! MY RIGHTS!", than they are about containing this thing and stopping the spread, especially when front-line workers such as your wife are putting themselves on the line to help others. I'm not a key worker, but we've been making surgical masks for people at home with any gaps in time that we have, and dropping them outside neighbours' doors and people who are asking about them on Facebook. Masks don't stop you getting the virus, but they do help to prevent spreading it to others. Most people are now wearing them here, as well as observing social-distancing measures, but quite a few - particularly older blokes in their 60s or so - tend to be ignoring it all and violating every measure in place. Not many, but a few - they seem to think it's bollocks. In reality, it's pure selfishness. Starting to see the true colours of people, aren't we? ☹️

Edited by Yoogo

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9 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Gav How can you support a government that put profit before public health by continuing to advocate a discredited and damaging herd immunity strategy instead of going into lockdown much earlier? 

The government took advice from the scientists Jim, but once the data came through from Italy/China the advice was to change strategy which they did, it wasn't government policy which dictated this, it was the science.

You can pick holes in every decision if you're that way inclined, as I know you are :D , but this wasn't government policy by all accounts and even you admitted a few pages back they they're doing a good job.

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Where did I say they were doing a good job Gav? You still don't seem to get it - the government used "science" to defend their decision to sacrifice lives on the altar of capitalism, only to slowly begin reversing course once they realised that letting the virus spread out of control would actually have worse economic consequences than trying to contain it. This delay has allowed the virus to spread all over the country, meaning that a swathe of the essential workforce has already been infected. And then there has been the lackadaisical approach to testing..... 

...

Edited by jim mk2

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3 minutes ago, Gav said:

The government took advice from the scientists Jim, but once the data came through from Italy/China the advice was to change strategy which they did, it wasn't government policy which dictated this, it was the science.

You can pick holes in every decision if you're that way inclined, as I know you are :D , but this wasn't government policy by all accounts and even you admitted a few pages back they they're doing a good job.

It was Government strategy Gav, they simply disowned it once the implications became clear to them.

It was always clear to medical experts in this country and abroad who told them it was bollocks from the off.

OK, I'm glad they changed their minds but they wasted a fortnight which will have cost lives.

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15 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Testing is the key. The NHS has today asked university scientists to help unpaid and in their spare time. Many have responded and according to this chap, if this lackadaisical government had acted weeks ago then a lockdown could have been avoided.

"These efforts are very welcome now”, said Tim Colbourn, associate professor of global health epidemiology at University College London. “If they had been done a month ago, we wouldn’t need to be in lockdown now.”

The flawed " Herd Immunity " policy will go down in history as an equivalent to the " Appeasement " policy that failed so badly in the 1930's.

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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The flawed " Herd Immunity " policy will go down in history as an equivalent to the " Appeasement " policy that failed so badly in the 1930's.

Johnson sees himself as Churchill (albeit a Poundshop version), not Chamberlain. We'll be fighting corona on the beaches soon.

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Has the government actually said they adopted a herd immunity policy and changed their minds?

Or is this fake news? and don't quote to me far flung websites or The Scum.

If you know a little bit about this virus you will know that the lockdown was always going to happen when it happened, herd immunity or not.

Edited by Gav

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22 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Where did I say they were doing a good job Gav?

I could be mistaken but I'm sure you praised and supported the Chancellors financial help for people Jim? 

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24 minutes ago, Gav said:

Has the government actually said they adopted a herd immunity policy and changed their minds?

Or is this fake news? and don't quote to me far flung websites or The Scum.

If you know a little bit about this virus you will know that the lockdown was always going to happen when it happened, herd immunity or not.

The chief medical officer did Gav. It was denied by the government after they were warned that 250,000 people would die from the strategy they were following - and changed course.

Edited by den

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