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First team squad 20-21

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5 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

This is literally halfway through his third full season. That isn't a long period of time. His first full season = promotion, his second full season = consolidation and now he aims for the top 6. I will judge after 46 games but anywhere above 10th and he keeps his job for me, especially given our injuries right now.

You use words like naturally but there is nothing natural about the clamour on this board, like it or not.

It's not a conspiracy either. Look back through the transfers sanctioned by Venkys since their arrival and there is no money spent on defenders in comparison to other areas of the pitch. There is a topic on this board about it, very well researched I may add, but it was brushed under the carpet though as posters preferred 150+ pages of debate on Brereton and how much of a slag Mowbray is.

Anyway my point was that Mowbray should get criticism in equal amounts to praise. He has been the manager during the time our playing squad has improved. His money hasn't been wasted as we now sit comfortably in the Championship. If he was to leave now we would be in a far better state than when he found us and that is the measure of a manager.

 

It all screams of conspiracy, its more likely a coincedence. There is absolutely no rational thinking behind our initial transfer strategy. Grant Hanley was a reliable staple of our defence for a few years, firstly with Scott Dann (big money) and then replaced by Shane Duffy. (bargain) That partnership was broken up at a time when we spent 250k all summer, and Mowbray took over soon after. He has chosen to spend most of money on 2 strikers, he has suggested before that he picks the players and explained his (flawed IMO) reasoning behind his signings, he also put his neck on the line promising defenders so I cannot start subscribing to conspiracy theories just IMO deflecting blame.

For what it is worth I am not saying for sure that I want Mowbray out, I summised my thoughts earlier in this thread where i listed both the positives and negatives and if he went today I would look back at his spell in charge positively. I just think the doubts regarding his ability to use any considerable budget to progress us and also our inability to ever get into the targeted top 6 has to raise many doubts. 

I dont think people doubt that we are in better shape than when he joined. I think the question might be are we in enough of a better state considering the money spent during that time? You could change your analysis to be 1. Failure to keep us up in difficult circumstances. 2. Promotion. 3. Consolidation. 4. Potential stagnation.

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2 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

I’d go so far to say that anything above 10th is a massive, massive achievement having lost our best player and his international class back-up half way through the season.

I would agree but we are currently 12th and I would be pleasantly surprised if that happened.

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1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

I would agree but we are currently 12th and I would be pleasantly surprised if that happened.

Dare to dream -

“The historic top 10 finish of 2020 that was very decent all told”

 

Will need a better title for the DVD

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Just now, S8 & Blue said:

Dare to dream -

“The historic top 10 finish of 2020 that was very decent all told”

 

Will need a better title for the DVD

It will sell fast if you advertise the additional features including the outtakes of Sam Gallagher as a right winger!

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5 hours ago, JoeH said:

770973199_2020_21SeasonSquadListSoldAcquiredSortedIntoTeams.thumb.png.ecc9737d7cbdde0999c2ea83077f3c6a.png

So after 3 years in charge we are going into this summer with only 6 start worthy, under contract, players 🤮 the best of which is crocked till 2021.

Keeping all of Nyambe, Lenihan and Travis this summer is simply a dream unfortunately.

Most of those listed U18's will be out of contract in a few months too, and basing retained numbers off history, at least half will be released. 

Unless we make a drastic decision... The League 1 tour of shame will be resuming in August 2021.

Edited by Angry_Pirate

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2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

That partnership was broken up at a time when we spent 250k all summer, and Mowbray took over soon after.

Yes Lambert left and Coyle took over and both Hanley and Duffy wanted out. Mowbray took over with 15 games to go and no transfer window. 

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1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes Lambert left and Coyle took over and both Hanley and Duffy wanted out. Mowbray took over with 15 games to go and no transfer window. 

Youve taken that from a conversation about something totally different, and ive acknowledged the difficulty of a task, but he failed that task. End of. Extrapolate away to try and justify an alternative view to do anything possible to justify your defence but he didnt perform the initial remit he set out to do.

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1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Youve taken that from a conversation about something totally different, and ive acknowledged the difficulty of a task, but he failed that task. End of. Extrapolate away to try and justify an alternative view to do anything possible to justify your defence but he didnt perform the initial remit he set out to do.

just like you trying justify your point for saying he failed. 

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

just like you trying justify your point for saying he failed. 

Came in. Aim number 1, survival. Survival not achieved. Its black and white.

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Mowbray is the second longest serving manager in the division. 3 years at the helm of a Championship club is rare in itself.

The fact that come the summer we will have no senior keeper, no left back, one CB, no wingers and no strikers capable of scoring, is horrific.

I've long warned against relying on the loan market because this is what happens.

The way we operate we aren't ever going to have the squad required, because rather than build we save cash by relying on kind loan deals from Premier League clubs. You can't plan or build on such an approach because it hinges upon favourable conditions and generosity from elsewhere as and when it suits them.

The longest serving manager is Lee Johnson at Bristol. They've gradually evolved a squad and invested in quality despite having to sell a few along the way. Lost Brownhill to the dingles on deadline day but brought a couple in the other way. 

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3 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Mowbray is the second longest serving manager in the division. 3 years at the helm of a Championship club is rare in itself.

The fact that come the summer we will have no senior keeper, no left back, one CB, no wingers and no strikers capable of scoring, is horrific.

I've long warned against relying on the loan market because this is what happens.

The way we operate we aren't ever going to have the squad required, because rather than build we save cash by relying on kind loan deals from Premier League clubs. You can't plan or build on such an approach because it hinges upon favourable conditions and generosity from elsewhere as and when it suits them.

The longest serving manager is Lee Johnson at Bristol. They've gradually evolved a squad and invested in quality despite having to sell a few along the way. Lost Brownhill to the dingles on deadline day but brought a couple in the other way. 

isn't Armstrong a striker? 

do we really need to go over the keeper thing after when we know what happened over the summer in terms of recruitment of a new keeper

Don't we have Lenihan and Williams as centre back. Plus Wharton

Will Bell get a new deal? 

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1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Don't we have Lenihan and Williams as centre back. Plus Wharton

You've been slagging of Maddison because he hasn't ever played above League 1 and now you are classing Wharton as a credible option at centre back even though he spent his career playing in League 2.

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53 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

isn't Armstrong a striker? 

do we really need to go over the keeper thing after when we know what happened over the summer in terms of recruitment of a new keeper

Don't we have Lenihan and Williams as centre back. Plus Wharton

Will Bell get a new deal? 

Yes we do need to go over it. I'm not satisfied with the explanation provided and I am anxious about similar happening again. I simply cannot accept that with a full summer transfer window we were unable to sign a permanent goalkeeper of an adequate standard, especially when in receipt of £3 million+ for our own keeper. It once again highlights the bizarre way of operating that we have here. A summer where Leutwiler was given an extension simply because he is cheap and will sit on the bench and Walton brought in on a loan despite not impressing at Wigan. All the while no money finds its way into defence or goalkeeper positions.

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1 hour ago, Ewood Ace said:

You've been slagging of Maddison because he hasn't ever played above League 1 and now you are classing Wharton as a credible option at centre back even though he spent his career playing in League 2.

I just pointed out that he is centre defender who is contract to the club in the summer. So we don't have only 1 centre back as pointed out. Is he good enough? Different question. I would guess not

43 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Yes we do need to go over it. I'm not satisfied with the explanation provided and I am anxious about similar happening again. I simply cannot accept that with a full summer transfer window we were unable to sign a permanent goalkeeper of an adequate standard, especially when in receipt of £3 million+ for our own keeper. It once again highlights the bizarre way of operating that we have here. A summer where Leutwiler was given an extension simply because he is cheap and will sit on the bench and Walton brought in on a loan despite not impressing at Wigan. All the while no money finds its way into defence or goalkeeper positions.

We are scouting keepers and been linked to 2 keepers. Last summer we had 2 keepers line up as already explained by Mowbray.

I think Walton been good this season. Yes made some mistakes but overall good IMO. he's improving week on week. 

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10 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

I’d go so far to say that anything above 10th is a massive, massive achievement having lost our best player and his international class back-up half way through the season.

So Mowbray has spent a bloody fortune at this level, and 10th is a massive achievement because we've lost one player?

Time to go.

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15 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

This is literally halfway through his third full season. That isn't a long period of time.

 

His 3 year anniversary is next Saturday. 

Rightly or wrongly, that IS a long period of time at this level. He’s the second longest serving manager in the league. Now if he improves on last season’s finish, then, of course, he goes nowhere.

We struggle next season and he should depart as that’s just the natural lifespan of a Championship manager and this club cannot afford another stint in the third division (he’ll have had much longer than most, in to a 5th season, so a very fair crack of the whip).
 

Edited by Mattyblue

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11 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I just pointed out that he is centre defender who is contract to the club in the summer. So we don't have only 1 centre back as pointed out. Is he good enough? Different question. I would guess not

 

No Chaddy it's not a different question, it's you defending the indefensible again. Of course quality was a factor in the original post - how could it not be? We've a ton of centre backs contracted to us through the U23s/reserves but they weren't mentioned or included because they clearly weren't good enough. Warton clearly falls into that category having not played above league 2. Heck, as Ewood points out that was your own criteria! So moving the goal posts all the time comes across very hypocritical. 

11 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

We are scouting keepers and been linked to 2 keepers. Last summer we had 2 keepers line up as already explained by Mowbray.

Repeating your point again and again does not make it right. I could state that I'm the next Alan Shearer a billion times but it doesn't make it true. People have repeatedly highlighted why it is a problem, you've ignored and not engaged with their reasoning, and can't seem to get over the fact that people see the keeper situation as a negative. 

11 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think Walton been good this season. Yes made some mistakes but overall good IMO. he's improving week on week. 

Really? Have had this debate with a number of fans and the best that has been offered has been "he's not that bad" or "he's ok". Yet you go one up and say he has been good for us and I really struggle to see the evidence for that. Outside of blind loyalty to the club how can his performances be classed as good. Downing has been a good signing for us this year. Tosin overall too. Walton has been nowhere near that level, has made very little positive impact and yet you say he is a good signing. Compare with Downing, Dack, Smallwood and other Downing in League 1, and you see a huge gulf in what are generally classed as a good signing and Walton's performances. Can you honestly say he have been as good as this lot? 

You post some really great links which I appreciate loads but this inability for Rovers to do anything wrong and lack of engagement with others arguments - especially moving the goal posts to suit your agenda (the value of stats being another example) is pretty wearing. 

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On ‎09‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 16:29, chaddyrovers said:

This is the squad after Who I think will be sold or told them can leave. Plus Mowbray's comments taken into account

I expect Fisher and Wharton to leave in summer for league 2 clubs. Mulgrew will be gone. Johnson will go IMO due to lack of playing time and the fact that this move just hasn't work out for him. Maglorie and Brereton(or sold) to leave on loan. 

I would offer new contracts to Bell and Downing. Bell has been very good in the past 2 months and Downing has been my player of the season

GK- Hilton

Right back- Nyambe

Centre back- Lenihan, Williams 

Left Back- Bell 

Right wing - Bennett

Centre Mid - Travis, Buckley, Davenport, Downing, Evans

Left Wing - Rothwell, Rankin Costello

number 10- Holtby, Dack

Strikers - Armstrong, Gallagher, 

So Signings wise we need 2 keepers, 1 right back, 2 centre back, 1 left back, 1 right winger, 1 striker. I think most of our signings will be from foreign clubs with us having invest so much in this European scouting network. But I would be asking Man City about having Tosin Adarabioyo back at the club on loan for the season. 

I am looking forward to the summer recruitment in terms of signings and seeing who we sign

 

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If you look at the team and FFP we got four players who would bring money into the club , Lenihan , Travis ,  Nyambe  , Armstrong  . would have been five but Dack won't  be ready  until next year . So something  got to give  im not looking forward too the summer at all and i dont trust TM with the rebuild 

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22 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I've posted something similar before but this is the squad Mowbray inherited vs Burton:

Steele

Nyambe Mulgrew Lenihan Williams

Conway Guthrie Lowe Feeney

Emnes Graham

Subs: Stokes, Joao, Gallagher, Mahoney, Tomlinson, Brown, Raya

 

Our squad vs Fulham:

Walton

Nyambe Lenihan Tosin Bell

Travis Johnson

Gallagher JRC Downing

Armstrong

Subs: Williams, Graham, Samuel, Davenport, Brereton, Bennett

It's a completely different squad and there has been massive improvements. We are missing Evans, Dack, Holtby, Rothwell and Cunningham from what was our strongest squad after the transfer window in summer. So I expect more of the same - improvement in quality and depth.

For whatever reason there is 0 appetite for the Rovers financiers to sanction defensive recruitment. This isn't a TM issue. It has happened since they came. Unlike when TM came in this summer we are only due to lose Tosin and Walton, rather than half the squad we lost in 2017. That would mean that a GK and CB is on the wishlist. Whether Venkys sanction these signings is another thing.

Providing we keep hold of Dack it would leave us a winger short of a terrific starting front 4. The whispers in Jan would leave us with a safe assumption this will be addressed. It is absolutely remarkable how this topic was started with the "utter mismanagement of our first team squad". That is such an overstatement it is untrue. Take a look at the revolution we have had in players. Mowbray has brought the squad age down, ensured we own the majority of our key players and has some top quality experience thrown in (Graham, Downing). Our squad is considerably better than when he took over, so how we are now considering it "mismanaged" is beyond me.

As things stand if Mowbray left us tomorrow he will have transformed the club from that squad to what we have now. That is fantastic management. Yes he had a terrible signing in Brereton considering the fee but at 20 years old he still has a chance to find some form and, hopefully in the future, move on for a fee. Other than that Mowbray has improved us year on year and this looks no different.

It's good to see someone with a positive view. Have to say though I'm not that convinced we are that much better. Travis, Dack, Armstrong, Tosin are definitely better. But then Emnes and Graham of three years ago are much better strikers. Everyone else much the same. We have moved forward a bit, but not hugely.

I am curious about your statement on a "terrific front four". Dack and Armstrong I get. And you say we need to sign one more. So who is the fourth person? Holtby? He's not really done much to warrant the term "terrific".

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Holtby is clearly a bit of class, and hindsight is already telling us that he is proving to be a waste of a wage due to his injuries. While he'll have passed his medical before signing for us, I do wonder why we don't pay closer attention to their injury history, of which Holtby clearly has. He's not going to be on the lowest of wages at the club, and it's starting to look as though he'll only ever be a bit-part player for us. I hope it's not going to prove to be a waste of signing, but I think it already appears that way to me.

As for Johnson, he's proving to be yet another bit-part player who I expect isn't on the cheapest of wages, given that he came here on a free with bags of experience at this level. While he's not as injury-prone as Holtby, he's generally looked well off the pace, particularly since the Luton game at home. A goal at Bristol City aside, he hasn't improved much since then, but we're stuck with him for another 16 months, which I'm not really relishing.

We can talk about budgets and lack of signings in January, but when signings like these have proved to be a waste of time and money, then this is certainly something that Mowbray should take responsibility for.

As for Nyambe, I really rate the guy, but every time I see him play, he always looks good for an injury. He's clearly the first-choice right-back now, but if Ryan's early injury record is anything to go by, it feels like we're always going to have a problem at right-back without adequate cover there.

The sounds coming from the club regarding FFP say to me that we are snookered. Unlike some, I can understand why a transfer window might revolve around a £15m sale of Dack to generate funds for Tony to spend (either in that window or in the summer), but unless we are prepared to undergo an embargo in the future, we can probably look forward to another couple of quiet transfer windows. I think it would take a miracle to sign anybody for a seven-figure sum at this rate.

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15 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

So Mowbray has spent a bloody fortune at this level, and 10th is a massive achievement because we've lost one player?

Time to go.

Yes.
 

If you count Dack, Holtby, Evans and Rothwell as one player.

Are you working on HS2 by any chance?

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1 minute ago, S8 & Blue said:

Yes.
 

If you count Dack, Holtby, Evans and Rothwell as one player.

Are you working on HS2 by any chance?

Evans is crap.

Holtby and Rothwell couldn't get a game for half a season. Revisionist history, much?

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Just now, Exiled_Rover said:

Evans is crap.

Holtby and Rothwell couldn't get a game for half a season. Revisionist history, much?

Do you think they would be getting a game now?

Look I get the feeling you’re not discussing this in good faith. 

You have your opinion, I disagree, I’ll leave it for fear I’d seem to be taking the piss out of you.

 

4 players > 1 player

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On 10/02/2020 at 13:44, JoeH said:

770973199_2020_21SeasonSquadListSoldAcquiredSortedIntoTeams.thumb.png.ecc9737d7cbdde0999c2ea83077f3c6a.png

This is how I can see it going. Players in luminous green I would consider "Top 6 players" worthy of a starting position in our team for next season (if and when fit of course).

Out of a normal 23 man squad, to only have 5 or 6 players who are good enough is pretty poor. We'd have to sign at least 6 Top 6 quality players to even think about much of an improvement next season.

Got a strong feeling Ben Brereton will go out on loan for next season, I reckon Downing & Graham can both be squad players another year personally but that's just my opinion obviously. We've no goalkeepers as has been mentioned in this thread, and only two defenders who we can universally agree are decent... 

We need a HUGE window, and I sadly don't feel as though we're going to get it. Also highlighted in blue some of the youth players I reckon will get a loan out too. Can see promising left-back Lewis Thompson going to League One or Two, same for Buckley & Chapman. 

Rothwell on a good day is a top 6 player but  needs to up his consistency.

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