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Would you sign Christian Walton

Would you sign Christian Walton ?   

137 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you sign Christian Walton?

    • Yes
      43
    • Maybe
      34
    • No
      60


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9 hours ago, JoeH said:

I agree with these four left over 100% though. It's nothing like as bad as David Raya. Nothing like. There's a difference between a goalkeeping error, like Raya letting the ball through his legs for Brentford vs Hull the other week, and conceding a goal that you think may have been a tame effort.

There’s literally no difference. 

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1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

None of that suggests he has been good for us - at best this is a case he has been decent for us. It's pretty flimsy 10 clean sheets and command of the area, especially when we have conceeded an average number of goals and a couple of clangers have come from balls into the box. 

My criteria for a good keeper would be as follows: 

Clangers - one or nil. Not the case with Walton there's at least 4 his biggest fans agree on and I think I'd go with a justifiable half dozen. Good keepers don't make that many mistakes. 

Shot stopping - a good keeper gets all the ones he should do (l- as in you don't think keeper could have better there. Not a clanger but a could do better, if that makes sense? a great keeper also saves ones that really should be a goal.

Probably been a few where I felt he could have done better and there's been very few where I think he has got things he shouldn't have done (Gestede header Vs Boro and the Wigan game spring to mind.) Contrast that with the great keepers we've had over the years and very often you can point to a number of games where they have kept us in it. 

Command of Area - a few clangers aside (which suggest he isn't amazing) this is one of his better features. Not comparing with Raya who was weak at it, but against good keepers I'm not sure he's massively better at it. That said it is an asset most of the time and so grant this is one area where he looks a good keeper. 

Distribution - good keepers do this well, although I always think of this as an added bonus. Not sure he is great at this as releases things slowly so not an asset for the case of him being a good keeper. 

Consistency - good keepers consistently perform at about 7-7.5 per game, great ones 8+ consistently. This is a feature I rate really highly, the reliability of a keeper. That's not been the case with Walton - he's really ranged from poor to average to excellent. Even the Boro game as a recent example he did excellently with Gestede's header but could have done better for the goal. The guy is too erratic performance wise and sometimes even within matches. For me a good keeper is more consistent - you know what you are getting. 

Clean sheets and goals conceeded. Not the full picture but can indicate whether a keeper is any good. The number of clean sheets is impressive but less so the number of goals we have conceeded. Certainly the latter strongly suggests he is average at best. The former does suggest he is certainly not in the Steele type category. So one stat for, one stat against. That said Filan won player of the season and was brilliant behind a terrible defence. I remember Southall playing for Wales Vs Dutch and the Welsh lost 7-0 and without a doubt Southall kept them in it. Pickford was actually good when at Sunderland. On reflection it's not what I'd base a keeper's ability on. 

Ok that is subjective but shows a bit of evidence as to why I don't think he is a good signing. 

 

 

How many good keepers do you think there are in the Championship - and who are they ?

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11 hours ago, JoeH said:

I've taken the liberty of removing all of the "examples" which were very poor examples. Fulham one is FAR from a goalkeeping error. West Brom was Cunningham's fault entirely. Forest penalty one was a dive anyway but again the fault of the defence, not the goalkeeper who was left alone one on one. Boro one was a great save, and again the defence had three men to mark and all three were left wide open for the rebound...

I agree with these four left over 100% though. It's nothing like as bad as David Raya. Nothing like. There's a difference between a goalkeeping error, like Raya letting the ball through his legs for Brentford vs Hull the other week, and conceding a goal that you think may have been a tame effort.

Fulham was a tame shoe that he palmed out to the feet of a Fulham player who scored from it.

Don't forget he's not even our player!

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2 hours ago, Amo said:

There’s literally no difference. 

Exactly, the outcome is a goal for both mistakes. Unlikely that Raya will ever make a mistake as bad as that again in his whole career.

You couldn't say that about Walton's error.

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3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

We have the 10th best defence in the league. 

What sort of commendation is that FFS?

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I would be looking to find a better one ...

He would be 4 th choice at Brighton says it all....

Brighton may well get relegated , so may want him back ? I would be surprised...

 

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9 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

How many good keepers do you think there are in the Championship - and who are they ?

I wouldn't like to say having seen very little non Rovers football. 

Not that all other championship keepers are crap (which I assume you're going for) is an endorsement of Walton's ability. 

Or perhaps you are trying to jnvidalidate my opinion if I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of keepers? I haven't of strikers either but could tell you that Graham was pretty good and Brown was pretty terrible. Another straw man argument. 

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18 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Sheffield Wednesday when he misjudged the cross.

Watch that back, it's not a goalkeeper error. I think people are getting confused between an error and a goal that could've been saved by the best goalkeeper. I'm talking mistakes, proper mistakes, like letting the ball through your hands, flapping at crosses from corners, kicking the ball out of play 12 times a game.

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30 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Watch that back, it's not a goalkeeper error. I think people are getting confused between an error and a goal that could've been saved by the best goalkeeper. I'm talking mistakes, proper mistakes, like letting the ball through your hands, flapping at crosses from corners, kicking the ball out of play 12 times a game.

I made a point of saying that I appreciate that some of these goals are not particularly eye catching errors, but including the Sheffield Wednesday one, they are goals that a competent Championship goalkeeper should be very frustrated at his part in. Just because a mistake isnt eye catching doesnt mean that it doesnt warrant criticism because ultimately they still led to goals when really they shouldnt have done.

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33 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Watch that back, it's not a goalkeeper error. I think people are getting confused between an error and a goal that could've been saved by the best goalkeeper. I'm talking mistakes, proper mistakes, like letting the ball through your hands, flapping at crosses from corners, kicking the ball out of play 12 times a game.

Ok so Raya makes more proper mistakes whilst Walton let’s in more soft goals but they don’t count in this arbitrary stat?

One may look far worse but if the end result is still a goal I would rather have whoever does less of both combined.

At this point I would say that’s Raya

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1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

I wouldn't like to say having seen very little non Rovers football. 

Not that all other championship keepers are crap (which I assume you're going for) is an endorsement of Walton's ability. 

Or perhaps you are trying to jnvidalidate my opinion if I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of keepers? I haven't of strikers either but could tell you that Graham was pretty good and Brown was pretty terrible. Another straw man argument. 

I wasn't trying to invalidate your opinion per se but it's more a case of trying to establish the yardstick by which Walton is judged - I get the impression that people are expecting a Premier League class keeper. How many were there in the Championship last season ? Henderson at Sheffield United - on loan from Manchester United - and Krul.

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1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Watch that back, it's not a goalkeeper error. I think people are getting confused between an error and a goal that could've been saved by the best goalkeeper. I'm talking mistakes, proper mistakes, like letting the ball through your hands, flapping at crosses from corners, kicking the ball out of play 12 times a game.

Exactly JoeH. I'm still in disbelief with 99"s that Walton should have saved Mitrovic's shot. If you watch it back from behind he gets a strong hand on it but it's the power in the shot beats Walton.

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1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

I wouldn't like to say having seen very little non Rovers football. 

Not that all other championship keepers are crap (which I assume you're going for) is an endorsement of Walton's ability. 

Or perhaps you are trying to jnvidalidate my opinion if I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of keepers? I haven't of strikers either but could tell you that Graham was pretty good and Brown was pretty terrible. Another straw man argument. 

Well as I guy who watching alot of FL football, there are good keepers around but still young in terms of development at this level. A few number 1's at this level are in their prime. 

So what level are you comparing Walton to? 

2 hours ago, Waggy76 said:

I would be looking to find a better one ...

He would be 4 th choice at Brighton says it all....

Brighton may well get relegated , so may want him back ? I would be surprised...

 

Why will he be 4th choice next season there? Probably number 2 there possibly number 1 if Ryan leaves. 

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12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Yes I think he should be dissapointed that he didnt, the ball went in the middle of the goal. No

The ball didn't go in the middle of the goal at all. 

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Pretty central and he was perhaps too far over to his left. It ended in the corner only because he got a hand to it but not a strong enough one to keep it out. Not a massive howler but one I think he should be doing better with.

The standard of keeping in the Championship is really poor. You look at even the top 6, the goalkeepers are Johnstone, Casilla, Rodak, Raya, Samba and Rudd. Only Samba is any good there really.

Not a chance that Brighton have Walton as number 1 next year.

 

Screenshot_20200212-225338_YouTube.jpg

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53 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The ball didn't go in the middle of the goal at all. 

Nearer the middle than the corner surely. Poor effort.

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1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I wasn't trying to invalidate your opinion per se but it's more a case of trying to establish the yardstick by which Walton is judged - I get the impression that people are expecting a Premier League class keeper. How many were there in the Championship last season ? Henderson at Sheffield United - on loan from Manchester United - and Krul.

I'm judging him on his performances for Rovers. In my home we refer to things sometimes as the "Friedel effect" as in its good but still disappointing as not excellent (a bit like any keeper who followed on from Brad). I'm certainly not wanting that standard or expecting top quality by any stretch! 

What I am asking for is a keeper who makes few mistakes they shouldn't make be they howlers or should do better type attempts.  I think I'd settle and am judging him against solid keepers rather than the spectacular. 

I'm not sure how this is so complicated as we all know Armstrong or Dack probably arent Prem quality but are doing very well for us and are good championship playrrs. Smallwood did very well for us in league 1 judged as a league 1 player, not Vs Kante, for exameple. I'm not of this logic of the yardstick being higher for the keeper position than it is for any of the outfield players. We don't think Williams or Bell are poor as they aren't Prem quality but not cutting it at this standard. I don't see how there's this suddenly different criteria by which keepers are differently judged. 

Also many of my recent posts on this topic began because Chaddy said Walton had been a good signing for us which is spin of the highest order. He (Walton) has performed nowhere near as well as Arma or Downing this season, or even Tosin. On reflection perhaps some of the high standard stuff comes from me asking Chaddy to justify Walton being good for us and considering what good looks like (although i would think that still factors in our level.) Given his form hasn't been that great or he hasn't excelled at this level I think it's a bit cheeky to try slipping him in as a good signing. 

 

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1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well as I guy who watching alot of FL football, there are good keepers around but still young in terms of development at this level. A few number 1's at this level are in their prime. 

So what level are you comparing Walton to? 

Why will he be 4th choice next season there? Probably number 2 there possibly number 1 if Ryan leaves. 

 

To answer your question: 

1) never mentioned in their prime - this is something you have added in. 

2) firstly against other good signings for Rovers in a variety of positions since you said he has been a good signing. So I'm talking about Downing and Arma this year, Smallwood in league 1, that level of impact that "good" signings make. 

3) what I would consider a decent standard as to not regularly be doing disappointing things whether howlers or should do better. 

Edited by Blue blood

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3 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I wasn't trying to invalidate your opinion per se but it's more a case of trying to establish the yardstick by which Walton is judged - I get the impression that people are expecting a Premier League class keeper. How many were there in the Championship last season ? Henderson at Sheffield United - on loan from Manchester United - and Krul.

Regarding the question and the answer at the end it's interesting to note you picked the top two teams.  It's no coincidence that the teams with the best keepers got automatic promotion.

It's a no to Walton from me.  I'd prefer us to get the very best keeper we can as I think it's a crucial position.  I hope we allocate a large chunk of the summer budget to get someone much better.

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8 minutes ago, Blueandwhitemike said:

Regarding the question and the answer at the end it's interesting to note you picked the top two teams.  It's no coincidence that the teams with the best keepers got automatic promotion.

It's a no to Walton from me.  I'd prefer us to get the very best keeper we can as I think it's a crucial position.  I hope we allocate a large chunk of the summer budget to get someone much better.

I mentioned those two because I think they are the only ones from last season's Championship now playing in the Premier League - the clubs there don't seem keen to move in for Championship level keepers. As you say, it would be good to have the best keeper possible - but perhaps worth remembering that it is unlikely that they will be as good as Brad Friedel who was our keeper last time we were promoted to the Premier League.

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The 12million would have been better spent on a consistently quality keeper. You build from the back. There is no more important position on the pitch. Perhaps we can get a quality keeper in the summer. 

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24 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I mentioned those two because I think they are the only ones from last season's Championship now playing in the Premier League - the clubs there don't seem keen to move in for Championship level keepers. As you say, it would be good to have the best keeper possible - but perhaps worth remembering that it is unlikely that they will be as good as Brad Friedel who was our keeper last time we were promoted to the Premier League.

No one is comparing Walton against our best ever keeper. No one has that kind of standard for him. 

If we are going on our last promoted season as a comparison I'd have been happy with Walton being as good as Filan or Kelly. Neither were amazing that year (in fact Filan in relegation season seemed to be the peak of his career) bit both were solid keepers. If Walton were as good as I perceived those two to be then I'd be happy with him.. 

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5 hours ago, 47er said:

Nearer the middle than the corner surely. Poor effort.

Harsh IMO. The shot was on the turn from what, ten yards, and could’ve gone anywhere so no possibility of any anticipation. It was low and hard, a very good shot in the circumstances. If Tosin keeps allowing players to turn and shoot without any physical pressure, a lot of them are going to go in.

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7 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Pretty central and he was perhaps too far over to his left. 

Here is a great view(from behind the goal) of Walton's position and the shot wasn't pretty central

 

Screenshot_20200214-172503_Gallery.jpg

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