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JoeH

Derby County (A) - Sunday 8th March [3pm KO]

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8 minutes ago, 47er said:

Well how about "if there is still anything to play for we will bottle it anyway especially with Tony's selections?"

Much better. Tony's selections have put us in this position though.

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One thing that really hit home to me yesterday was the lack of positional awareness of our strikers. Early on I thought Bell put in some good crosses from the left side which were dealt with comfortably by the Derby defenders. Our forwards just didn't make good enough runs for one of them to at least challenge the opposition players. And after the first fifteen minutes they got lazy and didn't press high enough and allowed Derby to play from the back through midfield where invariably we were outnumbered. I don't know if they are lazy, unfit, poorly coached or just useless. I do know though that so far there has been little indication that two of them are anywhere near Championship standard.

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13 hours ago, 47er said:

Once again we have nothing to play for and our season will fade out. We are no nearer promotion than we were under Bowyer several years ago.

We are producing some good youth players, they will be snapped up by bigger clubs.

We are on a downward spiral to nothingness. its the 1980's again with no Jack in sight.

Our only hope of getting out of this is to turn up a manager like Dyche. 

Sorry. I know I am in danger of labouring this point, but we made a much better fist of it in the 80's.

Twice we missed out only on the last day and we were in the top 2/3 certainly up to Christmas on more than one occasion.

 Under Venky's, I can't recall Rovers even entering the playoff positions for more than 10 minutes under Bowyer- and that it with shedloads of parachute and transfer fees received!

It feels pretty pointless. We are treading water ...and losing money!

Apart from all that, I agree with you!

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1 hour ago, rog of the rovers said:

Really? Completely gut the whole hierarchy of the club?

Bold strategy.

Yes; something that the people who want everyone in sight sacked never seem to address is who then is left to appoint their replacements ? Mrs Desai ?

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3 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

 

 Under Venky's, I can't recall Rovers even entering the playoff positions for more than 10 minutes under Bowyer- and that it with shedloads of parachute and transfer fees received!

Three times we have been in the championship play off positions under Venkys.

25th August 2012 - 6th October 2012 (6 weeks) - K*an & Black

22nd November 2014 - 6th December 2014 (2 Weeks) - Bowyer

25th August 2018 - 1st September 2018 (1 Week) - Mowbray

 

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53 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

That's what I'm saying really. I believe a good manager would find his best position,  Mowbray uses him badly.

He had the best possible development money could buy at Utd. Had two loans, neither of who came back for him, and ended up at Oxford Utd. where he’d still be if we hadn’t signed him for nothing. A lot of football people better than Mowbray must have also used him badly.

Or maybe he’s just a bit crap.

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13 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Yes; something that the people who want everyone in sight sacked never seem to address is who then is left to appoint their replacements ? Mrs Desai ?

If you don’t look to improve things and be the best you can be, what is the point in professional sport?

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3 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Three times we have been in the championship play off positions under Venkys.

25th August 2012 - 6th October 2012 (6 weeks) - K*an & Black

22nd November 2014 - 6th December 2014 (2 Weeks) - Bowyer

25th August 2018 - 1st September 2018 (1 Week) - Mowbray

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30064890

The glory days. 

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3 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

If you don’t look to improve things and be the best you can be, what is the point in professional sport?

A change is not necessarily going to result in improvement. Going from Allardyce to Kean, for example. But the point was more about the decision makers - who is left to actually make decisions if everyone gets the bullet from India ?

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22 minutes ago, arbitro said:

One thing that really hit home to me yesterday was the lack of positional awareness of our strikers. Early on I thought Bell put in some good crosses from the left side which were dealt with comfortably by the Derby defenders. Our forwards just didn't make good enough runs for one of them to at least challenge the opposition players. And after the first fifteen minutes they got lazy and didn't press high enough and allowed Derby to play from the back through midfield where invariably we were outnumbered. I don't know if they are lazy, unfit, poorly coached or just useless. I do know though that so far there has been little indication that two of them are anywhere near Championship standard.

It's become painful to watch, yesterday was a prime representation of SG & BB's Rovers careers so far.

Consistently play like headless chickens. I understand they've found themselves on the wing a lot but regardless, they've both had ample opportunity playing as and around a number 9 role.

They cause very few issues to defenders on balls in to the box despite being something like 6'3 and 6'5. Rarely get head or foot to the ball and it's a breeze for the defender. 

When balls do fall to them in the box, they tend to panic and finishing is wild/poor. How often do they trouble the goalkeeper?

Around the box, when needing to square the ball or link somebody in, again it's usually near post straight to the keeper or ballooned beyond everybody for a goal kick or throw in.

It's surely a basic expectation to think your big money strikers at this level can at least cause a few problems and put themselves about each week?

Playing those two to save face will potentially cost our season. If Danny Graham (15 goals last season) had kept his place, or at least been the man to step in post Dack's injury, i'm convinced we'd have more points on the board. He gives the defenders something to really deal with, scores an acceptable amount of goals against the chances that fall to him and knits the attack together by using his strength and first touch.

I want them to succeed as we all do, and I keep hearing they've got potential, but after over a year of watching them both I'm really struggling to get on board with them.

Whether the players are simply crap, the coaches are misuing them, they don't fit the system or whatever, something needs to change and click soon.

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12 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Three times we have been in the championship play off positions under Venkys.

25th August 2012 - 6th October 2012 (6 weeks) - K*an & Black

22nd November 2014 - 6th December 2014 (2 Weeks) - Bowyer

25th August 2018 - 1st September 2018 (1 Week) - Mowbray

 

Thanks, but I think you will agree that compares very poorly to the Rovers' performance in the 80's?

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

He had the best possible development money could buy at Utd. Had two loans, neither of who came back for him, and ended up at Oxford Utd. where he’d still be if we hadn’t signed him for nothing. A lot of football people better than Mowbray must have also used him badly.

Or maybe he’s just a bit crap.

He is very far from crap. I've seen him at times early this season be virtually unplayable and the only bright spark in some shit bland football.  

My view is that he can be best utilized as either a proper number 10 with no defensive responsibilities and I also think he could play up front with a big man who can win flick ons, lay it off to him higher up the pitch.  One on one he can ghost past defenders,  Mowbray plays him too deep so he's always got 3,4,5 of their team ahead of him. Plus , he's shyte defensively, so why give him those responsibilities?

The more I thi k about it, I just think Mowbray is either, not capable of getting us higher or he is taking the piss .......not sure which at the moment 

Edited by Sparks Rover

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I’ve only ever seen him ghost past midfielders who are mostly content to let him run across the pitch. However, near the penalty area he either runs into traffic, passes to an opponent or puts crosses into the Riverside - as you say, a classic number 10...

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1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

And his best position is.......?

CM or CAM.

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18 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

A change is not necessarily going to result in improvement. Going from Allardyce to Kean, for example. But the point was more about the decision makers - who is left to actually make decisions if everyone gets the bullet from India ?

who do you think makes the decisions now?? she does and always has. The ones at Ewood are puppets-pointless and useless

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Just now, TBTF said:

who do you think makes the decisions now?? she does and always has. The ones at Ewood are puppets-pointless and useless

So what purpose is served by firing them ?

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18 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Thanks, but I think you will agree that compares very poorly to the Rovers' performance in the 80's?

Without a doubt.

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48 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Sorry. I know I am in danger of labouring this point, but we made a much better fist of it in the 80's.

Twice we missed out only on the last day and we were in the top 2/3 certainly up to Christmas on more than one occasion.

 

When I think of a 2nd tier side containing the likes of Gennoe, Price, Hendry, Barker, Ardiles, Sellars, Gayle, Archibald and Garner, and then I think of our current squad, it's hard not to feel a bit deflated. Those boys would have destroyed what was in truth a fairly poor Derby side yesterday.

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1 hour ago, arbitro said:

One thing that really hit home to me yesterday was the lack of positional awareness of our strikers. Early on I thought Bell put in some good crosses from the left side which were dealt with comfortably by the Derby defenders. Our forwards just didn't make good enough runs for one of them to at least challenge the opposition players. And after the first fifteen minutes they got lazy and didn't press high enough and allowed Derby to play from the back through midfield where invariably we were outnumbered. I don't know if they are lazy, unfit, poorly coached or just useless. I do know though that so far there has been little indication that two of them are anywhere near Championship standard.

More than once people were howling for someone, Gallagher in particular in the 2nd half to make some kind of attempt to get a head to things.

Absolute ponces some of these lads.

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33 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

He is very far from crap. I've seen him at times early this season be virtually unplayable and the only bright spark in some shit bland football.  

My view is that he can be best utilized as either a proper number 10 with no defensive responsibilities and I also think he could play up front with a big man who can win flick ons, lay it off to him higher up the pitch.  One on one he can ghost past defenders,  Mowbray plays him too deep so he's always got 3,4,5 of their team ahead of him. Plus , he's shyte defensively, so why give him those responsibilities?

The more I thi k about it, I just think Mowbray is either, not capable of getting us higher or he is taking the piss .......not sure which at the moment 

But that’s where Bradley Dack plays and he’s better than Rothwell...

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7 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

But that’s where Bradley Dack plays and he’s better than Rothwell...

Not at the moment 

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Playing Devil's Advocate on this comparison of today's squad and that of The Don in the 80s. While I don't disagree that perhaps only 2 or 3 of this squad would get into Don's late 80s group (Dack and maybe Lenihan and Travis), let us not forget that there were regular accusations from Rovers fans that "we didn't want promotion as we couldn't afford it". And when I say regular I mean every season! 

Rose tinted specs and all that? Had there been a BRFCS message board back then it would have been chock-full of conspiracy theories that would have grown arms and legs in this environment and I don't know which is worse; 'not quite getting there' as we are at the moment or 'collapsing like Devon Loch' in the last quarter of the season when in a seemingly brilliant position, which we seemed to do on a regular basis back then.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I thank God for the Uncle Jack years, because being a Rovers fan has been bloody hard work at times over the other 50 or so of them! 

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Posted (edited)

Rothwell's a funny one. Has a lot of good attributes. Pace, good technique, can pass the ball pretty well, direct, good dribbler. But for some reason it doesn't really come together. It's a decision making thing I think, which seems like it should be possible to coach. He needs to focus on picking when to run with and when to pass the ball.

I do think the lack of balance in the squad doesn't help him. We have so many players trying to play narrow and no real width, so everyone's getting in each others way. And that's with 2 narrow players out long term (Dack and Holtby - !!)

Edited by joey_big_nose

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56 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

A change is not necessarily going to result in improvement. Going from Allardyce to Kean, for example. But the point was more about the decision makers - who is left to actually make decisions if everyone gets the bullet from India ?

Make no mistake, none of the so called directors who work at the club on a day to day basis would have any say on any managerial appointment.

The last three have all come from the same ‘Trusted Advisors’ that inflicted Kean on us

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3 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Make no mistake, none of the so called directors who work at the club on a day to day basis would have any say on any managerial appointment.

The last three have all come from the same ‘Trusted Advisors’ that inflicted Kean on us

So Waggott is lying when he says it’s him in charge of such matters if they arise?

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