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Football League Suspended

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9 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Should be a simple thing really.

Question 1. Is the situation (deaths per day etc) low risk enough to consider having games in front of fans?

Yes - Go ahead with precautions.

No - Wait.

Question 2. Is the situation low risk enough to consider having games behind closed doors?

Yes - Go ahead with precautions.

No - Wait. Delay and/or null and void where appropriate.

Obviously the question all falls around what the guideline is in regards to low risk. Maybe under x amount of deaths and infections for x period of time. Maybe when far enough down the chart out of 5. Maybe when either of these are in place and players are willing to co-operate. But dont consider legalities and finances until these 2 questions are answered.

The problem with this checklist is that it assumes that the PL (and even FA) care about fans, players or clubs.

Fans are always the last people listened to or considered in any consultation (in the rare event that they are even deemed worthy of consultation). See the treatment of Rovers fans when we were still a PL club.

Players are many and every club would be expected to field any XI they can. See Bolton kids.

Clubs can easily be replaced and as far as they care they can fold - regardless of how long they have existed. See Bury.

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https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2020/may/12/police-open-to-talks-for-premier-league-clubs-to-finish-season-at-home-grounds

This is getting worse and worse. It will be bad enough with numpties turning up at games anyway but can you imagine what Anfield will be like if they have a title decider to play there?

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10 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

I am a simple soul and my view on this has always been just keep the finger on the pause button just now. People are talking as though the 2020/21 season will be a normal one when we have no idea really. It may well be much more palatable for that to be the season that gets scrapped or modified in advance, where all parties know the rules before they kick a ball, while we get on with finishing this season off in as 'normal' a way as possible, whenever that might be. But football should be put on hold indefinitely just now. I realise that this will have financial implications, but other industries are finding innovative ways to deal with things, there's no reason why football can't do likewise. Why players should get more than £2500 per month while there is no football being played is quite beyond me. The fact that they usually earn a bucketload more than that should have provided them with a cushion for more difficult times and if it hasn't, then welcome to the real world chaps!

I'm not sure I agree if football should be put on hold indefinitely, football is no different from the rest of Society in that it needs to get back to some semblance of normality at the earliest possible opportunity whilst there is still something left to come back to.

The important thing for me is to finish this season whether it happens behind closed doors or not in order to maintain the integrity of the competition. You can't simply disregard the efforts of teams this season nor can you relegate Clubs who weren't aware at the time that there was a possibility they could be relegated on the basis of the season up to that point. If the season doesn't finish on the pitch I'll lose even more love and affinity for what Pele dubbed  "the Beautiful Game".

I am glad however someone agrees with me on footballers' salaries. I thought it was just me who was sick of hearing about  these poor footballers having to take a tiny wage cut against their wishes etc. The very structure of the 92 Clubs is at risk and in Germany at one of the Clubs whose name I can't recall the players agreed to go without pay for 4 months AND contribute towards the wages of the non playing staff.

Those guys will be on nothing like the wages of Premier League players and you think top players here would do the same without batting an eyelid yet we're treated to the unedifying spectacle of players and the PFA squabbling over small wage cuts or even wage deferrals which of course in the long run are of no help whatsoever to the Clubs as they have to be paid back at some point anyway whereas lost income will never be replaced.

Finish the season, ideally as soon as possible, but really it doesn't matter when. It's next season that doesn't matter, if there isn't time to fit it in, an alternative format or competition can be devised as a one off.

 

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16 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I'm not sure I agree if football should be put on hold indefinitely, football is no different from the rest of Society in that it needs to get back to some semblance of normality at the earliest possible opportunity whilst there is still something left to come back to.

The important thing for me is to finish this season whether it happens behind closed doors or not in order to maintain the integrity of the competition. You can't simply disregard the efforts of teams this season nor can you relegate Clubs who weren't aware at the time that there was a possibility they could be relegated on the basis of the season up to that point. If the season doesn't finish on the pitch I'll lose even more love and affinity for what Pele dubbed  "the Beautiful Game".

I am glad however someone agrees with me on footballers' salaries. I thought it was just me who was sick of hearing about  these poor footballers having to take a tiny wage cut against their wishes etc. The very structure of the 92 Clubs is at risk and in Germany at one of the Clubs whose name I can't recall the players agreed to go without pay for 4 months AND contribute towards the wages of the non playing staff.

Those guys will be on nothing like the wages of Premier League players and you think top players here would do the same without batting an eyelid yet we're treated to the unedifying spectacle of players and the PFA squabbling over small wage cuts or even wage deferrals which of course in the long run are of no help whatsoever to the Clubs as they have to be paid back at some point anyway whereas lost income will never be replaced.

Finish the season, ideally as soon as possible, but really it doesn't matter when. It's next season that doesn't matter, if there isn't time to fit it in, an alternative format or competition can be devised as a one off.

 

Where has been all the pitying of footballers having to take a cut? 

You say get back whilst there is something left to get back to but in terms of the logistical side of things, only the Premier League and maybe Championsip could possibly be finished and none of those clubs will be in danger of going out of business anytime soon so its a moot point. Rushing through the top 2 leagues now will in no way prevent clubs potentially folding. And ultimately, that isnt as important as health.

You have been fairly dismissive of the nature of the pandemic throughout but there are too many deaths at the moment and there is too much risk to be playing at the moment. There are also the reprocussions of any positive tests and the following cancellations and there are a number of players who have already highlighted their concerns publically and of course their co operation is essential

There is a sense of logic behind the idea of prioritising this season at the potential cost of next season and I appreciate that. I would rather have a full new season personally with the blank canvas of clubs potentially arranging the potential for a mid season return to crowds if at all possible pre fixture release without the conflict of interest regarding current league positions. But one thing I would rule out now is the possibility of finishing this season AND having a full next season. It is not possible. There is no need for an urgent decision aside from that no football can be played immediately. For me finishing this season would only be become a viable option if it wasnt possible to start playing even in August/September.

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Posted (edited)

Apparently the guidelines the league will put to captains tomorrow is to ‘turn your face away if you get tackled’ and that players will only be close enough to be in a contamination zone for an average of 88 seconds per game

Absolute bollocks, a corner must take 30 seconds easily, you have 15 or men jostling for position in the box 5-10 times a game alone never mind any marking the rest of the time.

If we get this kind of game it’s just going to be exhibition stuff with players going through the motions, not football!

Just scrap it and review again when things are clearer 

Edited by Tom

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10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Where has been all the pitying of footballers having to take a cut? 

You say get back whilst there is something left to get back to but in terms of the logistical side of things, only the Premier League and maybe Championsip could possibly be finished and none of those clubs will be in danger of going out of business anytime soon so its a moot point. Rushing through the top 2 leagues now will in no way prevent clubs potentially folding. And ultimately, that isnt as important as health.

You have been fairly dismissive of the nature of the pandemic throughout but there are too many deaths at the moment and there is too much risk to be playing at the moment. There are also the reprocussions of any positive tests and the following cancellations and there are a number of players who have already highlighted their concerns publically and of course their co operation is essential

There is a sense of logic behind the idea of prioritising this season at the potential cost of next season and I appreciate that. I would rather have a full new season personally with the blank canvas of clubs potentially arranging the potential for a mid season return to crowds if at all possible pre fixture release without the conflict of interest regarding current league positions. But one thing I would rule out now is the possibility of finishing this season AND having a full next season. It is not possible. There is no need for an urgent decision aside from that no football can be played immediately. For me finishing this season would only be become a viable option if it wasnt possible to start playing even in August/September.

Realistically, whether daily deaths from the virus are down to a much lower level than now, or are still at the current sort of level, playing games behind closed doors under heavily controlled and near sterile conditions isn't going to have any impact one way or the other on that. The question is whether the Emergency Services can provide cover and whether Police and Local Authorities can be persuaded to sanction the fixtures.

I appreciate that the lower you move down the footballing pyramid the harder it potentially gets to meet any additional safety requirements. However as regards the potential financial implications of failing to finish the season, I think you're being similarly dismissive. Haven't there been suggestions that 40 or 50 Clubs could go to the wall if the season doesn't finish?

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Tom said:

Apparently the guidelines the league will put to captains tomorrow is to ‘turn your face away if you get tackled’ and that players will only be close enough to be in a contamination zone for an average of 88 seconds per game

Absolute bollocks, a corner must take 30 seconds easily, you have 15 or men jostling for position in the box 5-10 times a game alone never mind any marking the rest of the time.

If we get this kind of game it’s just going to be exhibition stuff with players going through the motions, not football!

Just scrap it and review again when things are clearer 

That suggestion that players should turn their faces away when tackled is absolutely ludicrous and extremely dangerous.

As someone who thinks that the entire situation regarding the virus has been vastly overblown anyway then this is just another example of people being way too namby pamby and expecting life to resume in a zero risk environment which simply isn't possible in the absence of a vaccine.

If it is decided matches can resume they should and must be played at full throttle as normal with no nonsense about players not tackling at all or in a safe manner or not coming into proximity for more than a designated time. If matches are played behind closed doors and all the people in the stadium are regularly tested then the likelihood of the virus being transmitted is extremely low. If however one or more player does contract the virus they are young fit and healthy and will make a swift recovery. If they have concerns about someone more vulnerable at home they have the option not to play.

It's not absolutely perfect but it's not possible to reach an absolutely perfect solution in the absence of a vaccine. All life involves an element of risk and always has done. 

Edited by RevidgeBlue

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28 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Realistically, whether daily deaths from the virus are down to a much lower level than now, or are still at the current sort of level, playing games behind closed doors under heavily controlled and near sterile conditions isn't going to have any impact one way or the other on that. The question is whether the Emergency Services can provide cover and whether Police and Local Authorities can be persuaded to sanction the fixtures.

I appreciate that the lower you move down the footballing pyramid the harder it potentially gets to meet any additional safety requirements. However as regards the potential financial implications of failing to finish the season, I think you're being similarly dismissive. Haven't there been suggestions that 40 or 50 Clubs could go to the wall if the season doesn't finish?

But why will 40 or 50 clubs go out of business if the season doesnt finish? My point is that the only 2 leagues that can possibly finish and to which any debate is open doesnt contain the teams primarily at risk financially.

Surely scrapping next srason would be even more financially disruptive.

Ultimately finance isnt the primary issue to be honest but the decision revolves around only the top 2 leagues but League 1 teams and below genuinely at risk cannot finish their seasons regardless.

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25 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But why will 40 or 50 clubs go out of business if the season doesnt finish? My point is that the only 2 leagues that can possibly finish and to which any debate is open doesnt contain the teams primarily at risk financially.

Surely scrapping next srason would be even more financially disruptive.

Ultimately finance isnt the primary issue to be honest but the decision revolves around only the top 2 leagues but League 1 teams and below genuinely at risk cannot finish their seasons regardless.

Because the teams lower down the Leagues are so much more reliant on Gate receipts and matchday revenue.

It does seem though that there is a vote to be held later today with  the Leagues 1 and 2 Clubs expected to vote in favour of ending the season. Not sure how they survive thereafter, they must have negotiated a bail out from somewhere or other.

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2 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I'm not sure I agree if football should be put on hold indefinitely, football is no different from the rest of Society in that it needs to get back to some semblance of normality at the earliest possible opportunity whilst there is still something left to come back to.

It should be grouped with theatres, nightclubs, concerts,  etc when going back, that's it.  

They should null and void the season and restart afresh as and when is permitted...

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22 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Because the teams lower down the Leagues are so much more reliant on Gate receipts and matchday revenue.

It does seem though that there is a vote to be held later today with  the Leagues 1 and 2 Clubs expected to vote in favour of ending the season. Not sure how they survive thereafter, they must have negotiated a bail out from somewhere or other.

But what I am saying is there is absolutely no option or logistical way for Leagues 1 and 2 to restart so regardless of the decision that is made in regards to the top 2 leagues, it wont make a difference because the only options available to the lower teams are ones absent of playing any football, ie null and void or a farcical points per game extrapolation.

Because playing at all for Leagues 1 and 2 isnt an option, never mind in front of a paying crowd, the decision as to whether to push through the leagues makes absolutely no difference to their ability to survive.

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I keep reading about players taking wage cuts but the vast majority (including Rovers) have taken wage deferrals for a couple of months. Whilst that is very noble and undoubtedly helps their respective clubs it's only for a couple of months and then they are entitled to get the deficit paid back. 

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Read three pages with most of the earlier posts being about,

"have you read Greg Clarkes comments"

"you have not read my post"

"Please read my post"

"Why you ignoring my post"

"read what Greg Clarke said in my post'

Damn annoying

 

 

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11 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

That suggestion that players should turn their faces away when tackled is absolutely ludicrous and extremely dangerous.

As someone who thinks that the entire situation regarding the virus has been vastly overblown anyway then this is just another example of people being way too namby pamby and expecting life to resume in a zero risk environment which simply isn't possible in the absence of a vaccine.

If it is decided matches can resume they should and must be played at full throttle as normal with no nonsense about players not tackling at all or in a safe manner or not coming into proximity for more than a designated time. If matches are played behind closed doors and all the people in the stadium are regularly tested then the likelihood of the virus being transmitted is extremely low. If however one or more player does contract the virus they are young fit and healthy and will make a swift recovery. If they have concerns about someone more vulnerable at home they have the option not to play.

It's not absolutely perfect but it's not possible to reach an absolutely perfect solution in the absence of a vaccine. All life involves an element of risk and always has done. 

Maybe there could be a new rule introduced whereby players are not allowed within 2 metres of each other and an electronic device fitted to alert referees to the infringement. A free kick would then be awarded. 

I suspect this would lead to a more free flowing game with none of this shirt pulling in the box but unfortunately lots of free kicks! 

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Uddersfelt Blue said:

Maybe there could be a new rule introduced whereby players are not allowed within 2 metres of each other and an electronic device fitted to alert referees to the infringement. A free kick would then be awarded. 

 

If it is going down that route, at least make it entertaining, the electronic device also transmits a electric shock to the player as well as alerting the ref :). The more out of position a player is when not performing social distancing the higher the voltage.

Edited by perthblue02

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10 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

If it is going down that route, at least make it entertaining, the electronic device also transmits a electric shock to the player as well as alerting the ref :). The more out of position a player is when not performing social distancing the higher the voltage.

Brilliant ha ha ha

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12 hours ago, Tom said:

Just scrap it and review again when things are clearer 

I'm not disagreeing, but what will you class as clearer?

They can play when the daily confirmed number of cases gets below 2000 instead of 4000 ?

As far as I can see, the health arguments for not playing in June will also be there in November and could be here for years.

 

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The UK government hasn't helped here. Football was expecting a clear message from them on Sunday and got a load of waffle. Now they are stuck having to work it out themselves and no matter what they decide they'll get blasted for it.

Germany, Italy, and Spain are all back in various stages of action, surely the football authorities can work something out.

As a football fan who watches on TV I can't wait for it to return but it's looking iffy due to incompetence.

 

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Will be watching the Bundesliga this weekend as im sure many others will.

Of course I am delighted to have some football back on but I am also incredibly skeptical that it will be anything other than an inferior and heavily diluted substitute that lacks the usual competitive edge that makes it so great. Obviously the lack of supporters are an understandable difference, I did watch Juventus v Inter Milan just before the lockdown over there which was behind closed doors but the game was still competitive and decent to watch. But now I suspect that there will be an overall wave of fear and also I am unsure if the Bundesliga has any rules similar to the ones @Tom mentioned that the Premier League have considered which would make it an unwatchable farce.

IMG_20200513_140825.jpg

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23 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Will be watching the Bundesliga this weekend as im sure many others will.

Of course I am delighted to have some football back on but I am also incredibly skeptical that it will be anything other than an inferior and heavily diluted substitute that lacks the usual competitive edge that makes it so great. Obviously the lack of supporters are an understandable difference, I did watch Juventus v Inter Milan just before the lockdown over there which was behind closed doors but the game was still competitive and decent to watch. But now I suspect that there will be an overall wave of fear and also I am unsure if the Bundesliga has any rules similar to the ones @Tom mentioned that the Premier League have considered which would make it an unwatchable farce.

IMG_20200513_140825.jpg

Dortmund v Shalke, a derby involving two good sides, this is a great game to see if there is any passion in the players without fans. 

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14 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

 

You say get back whilst there is something left to get back to but in terms of the logistical side of things, only the Premier League and maybe Championsip could possibly be finished and none of those clubs will be in danger of going out of business anytime soon so its a moot point. Rushing through the top 2 leagues now will in no way prevent clubs potentially folding. And ultimately, that isnt as important as health.

You have been fairly dismissive of the nature of the pandemic throughout but there are too many deaths at the moment and there is too much risk to be playing at the moment. There are also the reprocussions of any positive tests and the following cancellations and there are a number of players who have already highlighted their concerns publically and of course their co operation is essential

There is a sense of logic behind the idea of prioritising this season at the potential cost of next season and I appreciate that. I would rather have a full new season personally with the blank canvas of clubs potentially arranging the potential for a mid season return to crowds if at all possible pre fixture release without the conflict of interest regarding current league positions. But one thing I would rule out now is the possibility of finishing this season AND having a full next season. It is not possible. There is no need for an urgent decision aside from that no football can be played immediately. For me finishing this season would only be become a viable option if it wasnt possible to start playing even in August/September.

I don't think you can say that no championship club is no danger of going out of businesses anytime soon. Reading FC finances are shocking and wages are 194% of turnover, Surely you agree this is shocking and if their owners walk away they would be financial ruin. We don't know that financial circumstances wont change.  Do you agree? 

No one is saying starting the season next weekend but the Premier League and its clubs need to come up with working plan and possible dates of training start and games start. From Reports the EFL and its championship some sort of plan of training restart and possible start date. 

I don't see why you cant finish this season then have short gap then restart in October and not play the league cup and cancel the Champions league and Europa League until 2021/22 season. 

 

14 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

But why will 40 or 50 clubs go out of business if the season doesnt finish? My point is that the only 2 leagues that can possibly finish and to which any debate is open doesnt contain the teams primarily at risk financially.

Surely scrapping next srason would be even more financially disruptive.

Ultimately finance isnt the primary issue to be honest but the decision revolves around only the top 2 leagues but League 1 teams and below genuinely at risk cannot finish their seasons regardless.

Did you accept that quite possibly some league 1 and league 2 clubs could go bankrupt unless PL helps them help with send more of the TV Money down to the lower levels of the game?

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46 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Will be watching the Bundesliga this weekend as im sure many others will.

Of course I am delighted to have some football back on but I am also incredibly skeptical that it will be anything other than an inferior and heavily diluted substitute that lacks the usual competitive edge that makes it so great. Obviously the lack of supporters are an understandable difference, I did watch Juventus v Inter Milan just before the lockdown over there which was behind closed doors but the game was still competitive and decent to watch. But now I suspect that there will be an overall wave of fear and also I am unsure if the Bundesliga has any rules similar to the ones @Tom mentioned that the Premier League have considered which would make it an unwatchable farce.

I will be watching it . Will be interesting to see what measures are bought in. Some interesting games there. 

Yes it will be very difference without fans in the stadium but this could be normal for a while until the world find either a vaccine(which I hope can happen) or treatment. 

 

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20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't think you can say that no championship club is no danger of going out of businesses anytime soon. Reading FC finances are shocking and wages are 194% of turnover, Surely you agree this is shocking and if their owners walk away they would be financial ruin. We don't know that financial circumstances wont change.  Do you agree? 

No one is saying starting the season next weekend but the Premier League and its clubs need to come up with working plan and possible dates of training start and games start. From Reports the EFL and its championship some sort of plan of training restart and possible start date. 

I don't see why you cant finish this season then have short gap then restart in October and not play the league cup and cancel the Champions league and Europa League until 2021/22 season. 

 

Did you accept that quite possibly some league 1 and league 2 clubs could go bankrupt unless PL helps them help with send more of the TV Money down to the lower levels of the game?

You could say that about our owners and many others too even before all of this. I dont believe that solely the TV money covering 9 games (baring in mind there is no ticket money for these games and that full player wages will need to resume, in some instances past their existing contract expiry dates) will make a huge difference for a club like Reading. The main thing is that the financial situations around football clubs are not as important as peoples lives so ultimately it shouldnt be a primary consideration anyway.

Under my suggestion of at least ruling out playing any football in the next month or two, no you dont need a plan. Essentially now would be considered the off-season and rather than creating needless dates for potentially resumptions, essentially we would wait and see what the situation was like in a couple of months. With the decision then made as to whether to train and then play or wait further.

I think its incredibly fanciful to suggest that the Premier League will play these fixtures, be far better off simply based on the small remaining chuck on TV money they may receive and filter it all back into the lower leagues. 

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I will be watching it . Will be interesting to see what measures are bought in. Some interesting games there. 

Yes it will be very difference without fans in the stadium but this could be normal for a while until the world find either a vaccine(which I hope can happen) or treatment. 

 

All on BT sport.

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54 minutes ago, rigger said:

Dortmund v Shalke, a derby involving two good sides, this is a great game to see if there is any passion in the players without fans. 

What does a derby really mean to a set of players who will largely have no connection to the local area?

It is the intensity of the crowd that makes a derby special.

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1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

What does a derby really mean to a set of players who will largely have no connection to the local area?

It is the intensity of the crowd that makes a derby special.

So as I stated, a perfect game to judge the commitment of the players. What point where you trying to make?

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