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Kamy100

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Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

I'm not in the least bit bothered about a refund myself. It's not Rovers fault they were ordered to stop the normal season.

I was anticipating that given the fact the Club can't really afford to give refunds, if they were given they'd be clawed back by means of a corresponding increase for those who did renew next season. 

And then some.

Why though? If that money was being used then that’s one thing but the lights are all off down at Ewood and as a taxpayer I’m already paying for furloughed staff, while players wages have been deferred - and let’s face it they are paid by Venkys anyway.

It’s about time the club stopped treating us as monopolised customers to be exploited (in a business sense) and treated us like fans.

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31 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Why though? If that money was being used then that’s one thing but the lights are all off down at Ewood and as a taxpayer I’m already paying for furloughed staff, while players wages have been deferred - and let’s face it they are paid by Venkys anyway.

It’s about time the club stopped treating us as monopolised customers to be exploited (in a business sense) and treated us like fans.

Bottom line is the Club loses a shed load of money in normal times anyway and even if all the players on furlough that only accounts for a small proportion of their wage.

If anyone takes the view that it doesn't matter because it's Venky's who will ultimately foot the bill then I dont suppose they will be bothered but I think its incredibly dangerous to assume that just because Venky's can absorb an ever increasing mountain of debt on our behalf they will always choose to do so.

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Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Bottom line is the Club loses a shed load of money in normal times anyway and even if all the players on furlough that only accounts for a small proportion of their wage.

If anyone takes the view that it doesn't matter because it's Venky's who will ultimately foot the bill then I dont suppose they will be bothered but I think its incredibly dangerous to assume that just because Venky's can absorb an ever increasing mountain of debt on our behalf they will always choose to do so.

If Venkys stop funding the player wages then the club folds. That’s just life, sadly.

That should not stop any of us expecting to be treated as valued supporters. Nothing that ‘the club’ has done since Waggott arrived suggests that. (I expect you’ll dismiss it but do you remember when the club used to win Family Club of the Year awards, for instance?).

If the club hadn’t furloughed staff then it would be infinitely more acceptable as Blackburn people’s livelihoods would be dependent on it. But otherwise they have their cake and want to eat it too.

iFollow could be about to sign up to a lucrative deal to show Championship matches on a much wider scale. All clubs should stick together and insist that 2019/20 ST holders get those games they’ve paid for free. Doesn’t cost anything to anyone, meanwhile iFollow get an increase in market share. Wonder if they will do that?

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It’s an interesting one with Bennett testing positive, at the start of lockdown it would have resulted in a fair few people self isolating but now it seems only those with a positive test need to 

Say it did spread through 4-5 squad members who then all need to isolate and miss training it seems the playing field isn’t level anymore.

The season either way will have an asterisk next to it however it plays out because some teams have been granted by chance an unfair advantage, some will finish the season avoiding some awkward away fixtures whilst some will have played more home games than away and vice versa 

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Stuart said:

If Venkys stop funding the player wages then the club folds. That’s just life, sadly.

That should not stop any of us expecting to be treated as valued supporters. Nothing that ‘the club’ has done since Waggott arrived suggests that. (I expect you’ll dismiss it but do you remember when the club used to win Family Club of the Year awards, for instance?).

If the club hadn’t furloughed staff then it would be infinitely more acceptable as Blackburn people’s livelihoods would be dependent on it. But otherwise they have their cake and want to eat it too.

iFollow could be about to sign up to a lucrative deal to show Championship matches on a much wider scale. All clubs should stick together and insist that 2019/20 ST holders get those games they’ve paid for free. Doesn’t cost anything to anyone, meanwhile iFollow get an increase in market share. Wonder if they will do that?

I think in general, I'm as unimpressed with Waggott as you are.

Can't disagree with your last paragraph but as regards your first I wouldn't be able to be quite so blase about it.

Edited by RevidgeBlue

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Stuart said:

If Venkys stop funding the player wages then the club folds. That’s just life, sadly.

That should not stop any of us expecting to be treated as valued supporters. Nothing that ‘the club’ has done since Waggott arrived suggests that. (I expect you’ll dismiss it but do you remember when the club used to win Family Club of the Year awards, for instance?).

If the club hadn’t furloughed staff then it would be infinitely more acceptable as Blackburn people’s livelihoods would be dependent on it. But otherwise they have their cake and want to eat it too.

iFollow could be about to sign up to a lucrative deal to show Championship matches on a much wider scale. All clubs should stick together and insist that 2019/20 ST holders get those games they’ve paid for free. Doesn’t cost anything to anyone, meanwhile iFollow get an increase in market share. Wonder if they will do that?

Did in League 1 for what that's worth. Hardly surprising with the facilities compared to other clubs in that league who also don't have a room filled with games consoles. Staff were quick to self congratulate.

Edited by Vinjay

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9 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I think in general, I'm as unimpressed with Waggott as you are.

Can't disagree with your last paragraph but as regards your first I wouldn't be able to be quite so blase about it.

I’m not blasé, I’m terrified.

I’m still a member of the Rovers Trust, you?

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4 hours ago, arbitro said:

Which begs the question when they are going to play/show Championship games. From that schedule it seems that every available slot is taken up.

Games on Sky and Ifollow I would guess. 

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9 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

Any non-essential activity creates added risk which can be avoided if the activity does not take place.

Football is non essential. It should not take place. Wait for a vaccine.

I'm struggling to understand your logic here.

So are we saying that ALL non-essential businesses should remain closed until there is a vaccine. (Which may never happen, therefore everything will go bust and we'll be left with Supermarkets, Banks and Pharmacies)

Or are you saying that every other non essential business apart from football should open as planned by the 15th of June but that football and footballers are a special case and should get an exemption?

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Tom said:

It’s an interesting one with Bennett testing positive, at the start of lockdown it would have resulted in a fair few people self isolating but now it seems only those with a positive test need to 

Say it did spread through 4-5 squad members who then all need to isolate and miss training it seems the playing field isn’t level anymore.

The season either way will have an asterisk next to it however it plays out because some teams have been granted by chance an unfair advantage, some will finish the season avoiding some awkward away fixtures whilst some will have played more home games than away and vice versa 

not sure if football are doing it different from the rest of us but anyone who has been in direct contact are supposed to isolate for 14 days and only get a test if they develop symptons ,so dont know how they are going to go on if a player test positive after a game as by the rules all players will have to isolate for 14 days because as Bennett has shown 2 days between tests one negative and next positive  ,but they could just make up thier own interpretation of the rules like others seem to do.

 
 
 
 

 

 
 
 
 
 
Edited by had.e.nuff

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In terms of potential refund on my season ticket i have not yet decided what i am going to do yet.

I'm struggling with the idea that i should refrain from getting a refund to the tune of £60+ on games i haven't been able to go to. I have many other bills to pay, I don't get a great salary and already spend far too much of it going far and wide every week watching Rovers. Meanwhile Rovers have a wage bill of millions of pounds and to my knowledge nobody in the hundreds of employees down there have yet taken a wage cut or lost any money. Waggott is on £300,000+ a year, lord only knows how much the players are on, not to mention the invisible owners rep, and whilst it is nice they have deferred some of those wages this is a DEFERRAL and not a CUT or REDUCTION. 

I also have a series of other issues and gripes on my mind that are telling me not to wave away a refund. I am unhappy that the club dishes out hundreds of free tickets for league games whilst taking my season ticket money and i ask why i should subsidise that. I also ask myself why i should pay for games that i won't be able to watch whilst i fully expect a large number of non-essential people to be able to gain access to Ewood for these 'behind closed doors' games whilst many are being paid to do so - Community Trust, office staff etc.

I suppose one way of getting rid of the issue would be for the club to offer a discount on next year's season ticket to those who had them this year who don't claim a refund for the missed games. That would be an ideal solution as it would ensure there was a serious incentive to renew again at a discounted rate whilst addressing those games missed this year. 

I am very worried about the impact this pandemic is possibly going to have on our support base. Many people go to Rovers purely out of routine and habit rather than any great love of what gets served up on a fortnightly basis and i think the club takes a lot of those people for granted, expecting them to just roll up and renew every summer regardless.

Once that habit is broken or people feel they are taking chances or putting themselves at risk by going and it becomes very difficult/impossible to get those people back who start to realise that they haven't really missed it and don't need it in their lives. If the club gets it wrong with refunds and upsets people or has the audacity to suggest those asking for them are causing the club harm or put prices up for next season then they are going to cause untold damage down the line. I can see a drop in crowds far greater than what any relegation would bring.

In short if the club was able to offer an incentive for me to refuse a refund - e.g. discount on next season - then that would probably deal with the issue. But if they start with the guilt tripping and 'proper supporters' would walk away from refunds whilst continuing funneling thousands of pounds a week into millionaire's back pockets whilst i balance the bills each month there's going to be trouble.

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Posted (edited)

Why should anyone refuse a refund under the current ownership? Granted it's hardly putting money into their pockets.

Edited by Vinjay

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Posted (edited)

The 1960 cup final ticket debacle took decades to get over. We have never recovered from the Kean nightmare.

As JH says, we could be staring down the barrel of mass non renewals. Only anecdotal, but the mood music on renewals I’m picking up from long standing fans worries me...
 

Edited by Mattyblue

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1 hour ago, had.e.nuff said:

not sure if football are doing it different from the rest of us but anyone who has been in direct contact are supposed to isolate for 14 days and only get a test if they develop symptons ,so dont know how they are going to go on if a player test positive after a game as by the rules all players will have to isolate for 14 days because as Bennett has shown 2 days between tests one negative and next positive  ,but they could just make up thier own interpretation of the rules like others seem to do

 

That was the part that grabbed my attention.

The only was testing can work for anyone is daily and that ain't happening for anyone anywhere.

Still as I've said before we as a collective have got through past pandemics as we will this one.

The main difference is in your face social media and its manipulation by interested parties.

9/11 changed how we are made to live. So will this, and not in a good way.

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Just now, Mattyblue said:

The 1960 cup final ticket debacle took decades to get over. We have never recovered from the Kean nightmare.

As JH says, we could be staring down the barrel of mass non renewals. Only anecdotal, but the mood music on renewals I’m picking up from long standing fans worries me...
 

Then make it virtually free and be radical. Do anything and I mean virtually ANYTHING for publicity. It's either that or be a boring low profile club with the current league position and FUP.

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27 minutes ago, JHRover said:

In terms of potential refund on my season ticket i have not yet decided what i am going to do yet.

I'm struggling with the idea that i should refrain from getting a refund to the tune of £60+ on games i haven't been able to go to. I have many other bills to pay, I don't get a great salary and already spend far too much of it going far and wide every week watching Rovers. Meanwhile Rovers have a wage bill of millions of pounds and to my knowledge nobody in the hundreds of employees down there have yet taken a wage cut or lost any money. Waggott is on £300,000+ a year, lord only knows how much the players are on, not to mention the invisible owners rep, and whilst it is nice they have deferred some of those wages this is a DEFERRAL and not a CUT or REDUCTION. 

I also have a series of other issues and gripes on my mind that are telling me not to wave away a refund. I am unhappy that the club dishes out hundreds of free tickets for league games whilst taking my season ticket money and i ask why i should subsidise that. I also ask myself why i should pay for games that i won't be able to watch whilst i fully expect a large number of non-essential people to be able to gain access to Ewood for these 'behind closed doors' games whilst many are being paid to do so - Community Trust, office staff etc.

I suppose one way of getting rid of the issue would be for the club to offer a discount on next year's season ticket to those who had them this year who don't claim a refund for the missed games. That would be an ideal solution as it would ensure there was a serious incentive to renew again at a discounted rate whilst addressing those games missed this year. 

I am very worried about the impact this pandemic is possibly going to have on our support base. Many people go to Rovers purely out of routine and habit rather than any great love of what gets served up on a fortnightly basis and i think the club takes a lot of those people for granted, expecting them to just roll up and renew every summer regardless.

Once that habit is broken or people feel they are taking chances or putting themselves at risk by going and it becomes very difficult/impossible to get those people back who start to realise that they haven't really missed it and don't need it in their lives. If the club gets it wrong with refunds and upsets people or has the audacity to suggest those asking for them are causing the club harm or put prices up for next season then they are going to cause untold damage down the line. I can see a drop in crowds far greater than what any relegation would bring.

In short if the club was able to offer an incentive for me to refuse a refund - e.g. discount on next season - then that would probably deal with the issue. But if they start with the guilt tripping and 'proper supporters' would walk away from refunds whilst continuing funneling thousands of pounds a week into millionaire's back pockets whilst i balance the bills each month there's going to be trouble.

I didn’t realise that there was a refund option.

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Without quoting JHRovers post it's pretty much where I am. The silence from Waggott in the last couple of weeks is palpable and worrying. There has been plenty of time to put forward options whatever they might be and even an opportunity to talk to supporters groups but as far as I'm aware nothing has been done.

From a fan base point of view it is crucial that the club try and maintain the current numbers but I really fear that, for a plethora of reasons it's going to dwindle alarmingly. The time has come for Waggott and his team to really earn their money and come up with proposals and radical innovations.

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Refunds are a really strange issue really. I suspect that supporters will feel an element of guilt about potentially taking a refund from THEIR club, and considering their relative wealth to footballers who have as of yet only deferred their wage, we have had our fair share of suffering paying hundreds and thousands to support our club up and down the country in the time when these wealthy owners have been here treating us with disdain, big wastes of money being brought, and our refund being such a small drop in the ocean compared to that, it is a wonder why we would feel that guilt. 

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10 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I'm struggling to understand your logic here.

So are we saying that ALL non-essential businesses should remain closed until there is a vaccine. (Which may never happen, therefore everything will go bust and we'll be left with Supermarkets, Banks and Pharmacies)

Or are you saying that every other non essential business apart from football should open as planned by the 15th of June but that football and footballers are a special case and should get an exemption?

My logic is that football cannot be played safely in the current situation and creates an unnecessary risk to the players, officials and the families of both. As it is non essential, it should not happen.

Other businesses can mitigate risk by social distancing and hygiene measures, reduced service, control on the movement of customers, wearing masks. Lots of ways to make the risks very low for everyone involved.

A football match involves physical contact, sweating, panting, deep breathing in close proximity to other people, spitting maybe some cuts to the skin. None of the measures mentioned above can be implemented.

So football is a special case - it can't be done safely. We can't even attempt to reduce the risks. I know the players and officials will be tested but is that 100% reliable?

Is any other contact sport considering restarting?

  

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Posted (edited)

Rugby League re-started in Australia today.

Believe Premiership Rugby Union in England plan to finish the season. No word on when they go back to training though...

Edited by Mattyblue

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Waggot will probably set his target at 10k again, put prices up again then trot out the old we've done all we can line. 

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56 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Refunds are a really strange issue really. I suspect that supporters will feel an element of guilt about potentially taking a refund from THEIR club, and considering their relative wealth to footballers who have as of yet only deferred their wage, we have had our fair share of suffering paying hundreds and thousands to support our club up and down the country in the time when these wealthy owners have been here treating us with disdain, big wastes of money being brought, and our refund being such a small drop in the ocean compared to that, it is a wonder why we would feel that guilt. 

Roughly where I’m at tbh. 
If my refund money helps the club to survive in a post-Covid world, then they can keep it. 
I’m not struggling particularly (furloughed), but if they have to give out the refunds, I’d probably take the money back and spend it at the shop or something. 

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7 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Roughly where I’m at tbh. 
If my refund money helps the club to survive in a post-Covid world, then they can keep it. 
I’m not struggling particularly (furloughed), but if they have to give out the refunds, I’d probably take the money back and spend it at the shop or something. 

Its a bit of a minefield in terms of what to think. I would also feel somewhat like I should help my club. But there are so many logical reasons why you should feel entitled and guilt free to take your money back which to a football club is a mere drop in the ocean.

Would you feel conflicted if the club didnt offer a refund but then went out and bought a player, or would you just think thats done to help the club progress?

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Interesting that our mates down the road had 3 options, use the credit to next season, get a partial refund or donate the money to the club to be used for the youth team 

Personally think it’s a disgrace that a premier league club could even consider asking fans to do that, then again this is the club that wanted free labour from their fans instead of paying stewards 

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7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Its a bit of a minefield in terms of what to think. I would also feel somewhat like I should help my club. But there are so many logical reasons why you should feel entitled and guilt free to take your money back which to a football club is a mere drop in the ocean.

Would you feel conflicted if the club didnt offer a refund but then went out and bought a player, or would you just think thats done to help the club progress?

Nah, definitely not, any squad improvements are fine for me!

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