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Kamy100

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Posted (edited)

Lower down the scale, namely our level and beyond football without fans has been on the cards for ages even before this crisis.

Of course it's important to the clubs - when they want it to be, i.e when the tv companies aren't calling the shots - but to the suits and paymasters they aren't that bothered.  The often stupid ticket prices, daft kick off times and rearranged fixtures all contribute that's before the police get involved yet it's been allowed to go that way because of the income and all the snouts in the trough.

I remember years ago on a Sat dinner whist waiting to go to Ewood and on the box was Coventry at home to Millwall, championship fixture. We were in the Prem so it was that long ago, anyway the ground was virtually empty and most of who were there must have been at the back of the stands or in the one underneath the cameras. I recall thinking that's awful it was hard to watch with so many empty seats and an eerie atmosphere aside from about 150 Millwall fans in a huddle. Obviously the home side wasn't doing well but there were no protests i knew of it was just mainly down to the stupid kick off time.

It's about time the game had a complete rethink but armchair experts and advertising pay rules the roost now.

Alarm bells were there as far back as then but no one gave a toss and i'm convinced we'll eventually see games kicking off on a Sunday or Saturday morning or a Weds tea time.  Anything to fill tv slots will end up fair game fans outside of the traditional TV media favs will be an afterthought.

Edited by tomphil

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23 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Football is becoming a TV Sport for all supporters for short period of time and until it is safe and we have vaccine or treatment plan. The majority of sport is a TV sport now whether its football, cricket, F1 or other sports. The PL is offering all fans to be available to watch it through TV companies. 

I think Sky Sports package is cheap in my opinion. I only paid 28 pounds per month for Sky Sports coverage of the sports I like to watch each week. People will disagree with me But considering what sports I watch it is fully worth it. 

I have seen behind closed games before as I have said before. Football has to become a TV Sport for a while. You watch alot of football already on TV so Football is TV Sport for you. 

Get down Plessy

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32 minutes ago, rigger said:

Get down Plessy

too old and too injury to play football or other sports

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2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

too old and too injury to play football or other sports

Can’t you watch?

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1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

I have been a big critic of bringing back football so soon but its far from a unique industry in terms of being desperate to get back to business as soon as permitted to do so for financial reasons.

I also think that, as @chaddyrovers points out behind closed doors is a short term measure. It is not a decision made purposely to try and tailor football towards the armchair supporters or anything like that, it is out of necessity only. 

The part where he is talking out of his arse however is when he dismisses the role of supporters in the experience of watching a football game. That is an opinion either out of ignorance and naivety, or one whereby he will champion anything resulting from the decisions of the current Tory government. Not necessarily from him but quotes like "new normal" and "becoming a TV sport" are annoying too. Once he watches some behind closed doors football, maybe that opinion will change, I have watched quite a few Bundesliga games since the restart in passing and it is nowhere near the same. It is different on two levels, the individual games which dont feel the same, and the overall feeling that the winners and losers of the final league season lose their importance somewhat, who cares who wins the league etc when there is no one around to see it?

I see the remaining season as somewhat of a empty shell and something that is being done as a tick box exercise just to have a season completed in the records. My worry is towards next season because if as expected at least some if not all of the season is behind closed doors, which i appreciate and understand any decision if that has to be the case, how is it possible to be enthusiastic about a season which will not particularly matter.

Good post.

“It is not a decision made to purposely to try and tailor the game towards the armchair supporters”

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince people he didn’t exist - Roger “Verbal” Kint

Granted, they haven’t engineered a virus to create the current circumstances but I expect they will certainly try to take advantage of the situation.

‘Football’ could have stood firm and said “no fans, no football” and paid back the piper. The EFL certainly should, they are hardly supported like the PL is. Instead, they have caved in the worst way - they will say through necessity but this single decision to not stand up against TV companies on a force majeure basis will have permanent repercussions. As a minimum a split in football at the top divisions.

By resuming with BCD this season, the 3pm rule is now broken. By beginning next season on the same basis, how easy will it be to then stop and go back to the ‘sacrosanct 3 o’clock blackout’ to protect lower leagues and grass roots? Nobody cares about them now so why in the future? Who will decide when it is safe for fans to return and would this new arrangement be a factor? I guess we will see.

Personally, I believe that there to be a mission by TV companies to eventually show every game live. There is almost certainly a ready-made market for it in the streaming age. VAR is already creeping insidiously into the game. How long until football is like U.S. sports with stop-start TV-integrated-rules and ad breaks during every stoppage? “The fans will never put up with that” has always been the riposte. Maybe they will no longer have a say...

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1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Football is becoming a TV Sport for all supporters for short period of time and until it is safe and we have vaccine or treatment plan. The majority of sport is a TV sport now whether its football, cricket, F1 or other sports. The PL is offering all fans to be available to watch it through TV companies. 

I think Sky Sports package is cheap in my opinion. I only paid 28 pounds per month for Sky Sports coverage of the sports I like to watch each week. People will disagree with me But considering what sports I watch it is fully worth it. 

I have seen behind closed games before as I have said before. Football has to become a TV Sport for a while. You watch alot of football already on TV so Football is TV Sport for you. 

I know it is short term going to become a sport only accessible via TV.

The thing is, you dont have to pretend that a match played in front of an empty stadium is no different. You dont have to make out as if the end result ie teams winning trophies etc is the same in front of an empty stadium. You dont have to staunchly big up behind closed doors football. You can accept it as a necessity whilst admitting that it is nowhere near as compelling as with supporters in the stadium. 

It is also not the same as a one off game behind closed doors, it is the rest of a season behind closed doors and almost certainly another season. 

If you think you are going to be engrossed in our run in in exactly the same way as you would was you to attend all of the games, potentially go to Wembley etc, then IMO you are either deluded and trying to fool yourself, or totally naive and the reality will set in once the football returns. Drop the superfan, behind closed doors officianado, accept and admit that it ISNT going to be the same, that whilst its a necessity it isnt going to be as enjoyable or feel as important, and youll get more respect.

16 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Good post.

“It is not a decision made to purposely to try and tailor the game towards the armchair supporters”

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince people he didn’t exist - Roger “Verbal” Kint

Granted, they haven’t engineered a virus to create the current circumstances but I expect they will certainly try to take advantage of the situation.

‘Football’ could have stood firm and said “no fans, no football” and paid back the piper. The EFL certainly should, they are hardly supported like the PL is. Instead, they have caved in the worst way - they will say through necessity but this single decision to not stand up against TV companies on a force majeure basis will have permanent repercussions. As a minimum a split in football at the top divisions.

By resuming with BCD this season, the 3pm rule is now broken. By beginning next season on the same basis, how easy will it be to then stop and go back to the ‘sacrosanct 3 o’clock blackout’ to protect lower leagues and grass roots? Nobody cares about them now so why in the future? Who will decide when it is safe for fans to return and would this new arrangement be a factor? I guess we will see.

Personally, I believe that there to be a mission by TV companies to eventually show every game live. There is almost certainly a ready-made market for it in the streaming age. VAR is already creeping insidiously into the game. How long until football is like U.S. sports with stop-start TV-integrated-rules and ad breaks during every stoppage? “The fans will never put up with that” has always been the riposte. Maybe they will no longer have a say...

I suppose like with all industries, the financial importance of returning even if it is not initially the same is the driving force. They have obviously weighed it up, and once they perhaps prematurely dropped the issues regarding health and morals, it was a decision between refusing to start up again out of principle or making do with the diluted alternative of behind closed doors football, knowing that SOME income streams can be maintained by doing that, and taking the latter as the favourable option, rightly or wrongly.

The post pandemic consequences are certainly an interesting topic. I hope that the phrase "new normal" isnt a thing forever and indeed it does revert back to normality at some stage. You make an interesting point about legalities such as the 3pm blackout and whether it will even be possible to reverse that back to being a rule once this is allover. 

Another point, some of the steps English football are apparently considering are a bit cringeworthy and should not be implemented, half time interviews, behind the scenes changing room footage, crowd noise, crap like this I am opposed to, we can accept that behind closed doors football is not a patch on normal football, have it pretty much how the Bundesliga is running things as very much a poorer substitute, but these TV driven fads wont make a difference in terms of making up an insurmountable deficit that is caused by not having supporters involved in the games.

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Behind closed doors , will be similar to the Jack Walker upper.

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6 hours ago, Stuart said:

Posters on a Rovers messageboard being more interested in Rovers than an armchair-neutral “wider world”, who’d have thought?

Or maybe I’m just too parochial in my old age!

If you're referring to speeeeedie then that wasn't how I read his post at all.

He wasn't being anti-Rovers, he was merely pointing out how strange it was that on a supposedly football m/b the prevailing view seemed to be against the return of football in general when that wasn't his experience from speaking to football fans in general outside of this Board.

I tend to agree. For me we need to get EVERYTHING back to normal asap. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if everything went back to the way it was pre virus tomorrow. However if that's deemed not to be possible, then having football behind closed doors for a limited period is better than having Clubs going out of business.

In exactly the same way having social distancing and lengthy queues in shops is far from ideal but if the alternative is those shops staying closed and going bust then the inconvenience is preferable to the alternative.

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20th June is the proposed return for Championship football in all its soulless glory.

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10 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

If you're referring to speeeeedie then that wasn't how I read his post at all.

He wasn't being anti-Rovers, he was merely pointing out how strange it was that on a supposedly football m/b the prevailing view seemed to be against the return of football in general when that wasn't his experience from speaking to football fans in general outside of this Board.

I tend to agree. For me we need to get EVERYTHING back to normal asap. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if everything went back to the way it was pre virus tomorrow. However if that's deemed not to be possible, then having football behind closed doors for a limited period is better than having Clubs going out of business.

In exactly the same way having social distancing and lengthy queues in shops is far from ideal but if the alternative is those shops staying closed and going bust then the inconvenience is preferable to the alternative.

You’re mixing up normal with BCD. They are incompatible.

Socially distancing while going to the shop is not the same as watching training ground football for points. For one thing, the sole purpose of shops is provisions, these can conveniently be delivered. Football is a form of entertainment derived from local tribalism which needs (and generates) atmosphere and emotion as much as it is about the technical ability to kick a plastic ball.

The point you seem to have taken umbrage to is that Rovers fans (on a messageboard) are more interested in Rovers than the wider (and now completely and literally sterile) PL. I’d say that’s how it should be considering we aren’t in it. The PL has been rubbish for a while now. All the best players are in Spain!

Do we even know if the Championship (returning 20th June - thanks @davulsukur) - will be on TV or radio? To at least add some relevance to the debate.

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Posted (edited)

Just read EFL in talks with sky sports or streaming services 

Edited by Mum63
Wrong word

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51 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I tend to agree. For me we need to get EVERYTHING back to normal asap. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if everything went back to the way it was pre virus tomorrow.

 

@pk1875 Would you agree with this?

 

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5 hours ago, rigger said:

Can’t you watch?

guess so but more comfort in my armchair. Of Course if you gave me an option of Ewood Park or my armchair watching Rovers I would say Ewood Park. 

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I know it is short term going to become a sport only accessible via TV.

The thing is, you dont have to pretend that a match played in front of an empty stadium is no different. You dont have to make out as if the end result ie teams winning trophies etc is the same in front of an empty stadium. You dont have to staunchly big up behind closed doors football. You can accept it as a necessity whilst admitting that it is nowhere near as compelling as with supporters in the stadium. 

It is also not the same as a one off game behind closed doors, it is the rest of a season behind closed doors and almost certainly another season. 

If you think you are going to be engrossed in our run in in exactly the same way as you would was you to attend all of the games, potentially go to Wembley etc, then IMO you are either deluded and trying to fool yourself, or totally naive and the reality will set in once the football returns. Drop the superfan, behind closed doors officianado, accept and admit that it ISNT going to be the same, that whilst its a necessity it isnt going to be as enjoyable or feel as important, and youll get more respect.

 

When Liverpool win the title it is going to strange to pick the league title in an empty stadium but that's is part of new normal of life for short period of time. 

Football is a TV Sport already as at least 4 to 6 PL games are on TV regularly anyway. Haven't you been regular watcher of the German League on BT Sport? I haven't due I wont pay BT Sport monthly fee of 25 pounds. 

I will be engrossed in Rovers 9 games as always. It wont be the same as attending games but it is still my team going for playoffs and playing. We will be discussing I'm sure on here and other social media platforms. Will I still be watching the PL and EFL games on TV when they are back on

5 hours ago, Stuart said:

 

‘Football’ could have stood firm and said “no fans, no football” and paid back the piper. The EFL certainly should, they are hardly supported like the PL is. Instead, they have caved in the worst way - they will say through necessity but this single decision to not stand up against TV companies on a force majeure basis will have permanent repercussions. As a minimum a split in football at the top divisions.

 

So you want no EFL for years if we don't get a vaccine or treatment? Most EFL clubs would have gone bankrupt as wages of players would still have to be paid if under contract. 

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

guess so but more comfort in my armchair. Of Course if you gave me an option of Ewood Park or my armchair watching Rovers I would say Ewood Park. 

When Liverpool win the title it is going to strange to pick the league title in an empty stadium but that's is part of new normal of life for short period of time. 

Football is a TV Sport already as at least 4 to 6 PL games are on TV regularly anyway. Haven't you been regular watcher of the German League on BT Sport? I haven't due I wont pay BT Sport monthly fee of 25 pounds. 

I will be engrossed in Rovers 9 games as always. It wont be the same as attending games but it is still my team going for playoffs and playing. We will be discussing I'm sure on here and other social media platforms. Will I still be watching the PL and EFL games on TV when they are back on

So you want no EFL for years if we don't get a vaccine or treatment? Most EFL clubs would have gone bankrupt as wages of players would still have to be paid if under contract. 

You have admitted that it wont be the same in that so fair play, finally maybe the penny is dropping! That was my main point.

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8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

You have admitted that it wont be the same in that so fair play, finally maybe the penny is dropping! That was my main point.

But nothing is the same currently and Football wont be the same but that's the part of this new normal of life. 

Haven't you been a regular of the German League on BT Sport? Don't you watch plenty of PL and EFL football when its on TV before this pandemic?

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30 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

But nothing is the same currently and Football wont be the same but that's the part of this new normal of life. 

Haven't you been a regular of the German League on BT Sport? Don't you watch plenty of PL and EFL football when its on TV before this pandemic?

I hate the phrase "new normal" because it implies a permanent change. I see behind closed doors now as an unfortunate and massively inferior temporary substitute that hopefully will be for a short a time span as possible.

Firstly it is a mistruth to suggest that football is already a TV sport is a mistruth. Whilst the amount of football moved for TV is more than ever, showing matches in front of fans very much part of the experience. Now, unfortunately it is a case of teams fulfilling fixtures as a matter of course, going through the motions.

Before all of this, I would occasionally watch foreign football but it felt like it meant something before, even as a neutral with a passive interest it is chalk and cheese. The difference between big and small is even bigger, players no longer treat goals with euphoria and it all feels routine. Not only is the player and fan connection removed from individual games, which has led to less late goals I believe, but its obvious that everyone knows that as much as they are being as professional as possible, it isnt the same.

Throw in the personal interest of watching my own team and I suspect I will be even more conflicted and the difference will be even more stark. In your head you will be watching snug in your armchair but everything else will be exactly the same. If Rovers made the play offs and you didnt feel a hint of annoyance that you was missing out then surely you wouldnt be human.

I have been watching behind closed doors football because theres very little to do in lockdown and even if it is only half as good as normal it is still football to watch. Ill be watching English football once it resumed but that doesnt mean I am considering it anywhere near what is on offer with supporters present.

 

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19 minutes ago, Stuart said:

You’re mixing up normal with BCD. They are incompatible.

Socially distancing while going to the shop is not the same as watching training ground football for points. For one thing, the sole purpose of shops is provisions, these can conveniently be delivered. Football is a form of entertainment derived from local tribalism which needs (and generates) atmosphere and emotion as much as it is about the technical ability to kick a plastic ball.

The point you seem to have taken umbrage to is that Rovers fans (on a messageboard) are more interested in Rovers than the wider (and now completely and literally sterile) PL. I’d say that’s how it should be considering we aren’t in it. The PL has been rubbish for a while now. All the best players are in Spain!

Do we even know if the Championship (returning 20th June - thanks @davulsukur) - will be on TV or radio? To at least add some relevance to the debate.

Certainly as far as the Bundesliga is concerned, I would say it's been as far from "training ground football" as you can get. The product has been fully committed and of a technically high standard indistinguishable from a "normal" match in front of crowds.

As regards your other point I'm not mixing up "normal" with BCD at all. However I'd say that if the Authorities deem that football HAS to be played behind closed doors then for me:

1) From both a neutral armchair supporters' point of view, and that of people supporting their own team, it's better to have some football BCD than no football at all.

2) Whilst not 100% ideal It's still infinitely fairer to complete as many Leagues as you can BCD than to declare everything null and void or end the season via a mathematical formula.

(and most importantly)

3) By fulfilling fixtures a lot of Clubs might be safeguarding their future and ensuring there is still something to go back to when their fans are allowed to return.

I actually think it's quite a self centred and arrogant standpoint to take that "I don't fancy the idea of football BCD, therefore if I can't attend in person the game shouldn't be allowed to be held. No-one is suggesting that this should be a permanent thing or even that football BCD is quite as good as "normal". It's a temporary needs must solution to cater for an exceptional and hopefully one off situation.

 

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11 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I hate the phrase "new normal" because it implies a permanent change. I see behind closed doors now as an unfortunate and massively inferior temporary substitute that hopefully will be for a short a time span as possible.

Firstly it is a mistruth to suggest that football is already a TV sport is a mistruth. Whilst the amount of football moved for TV is more than ever, showing matches in front of fans very much part of the experience. Now, unfortunately it is a case of teams fulfilling fixtures as a matter of course, going through the motions.

Before all of this, I would occasionally watch foreign football but it felt like it meant something before, even as a neutral with a passive interest it is chalk and cheese. The difference between big and small is even bigger, players no longer treat goals with euphoria and it all feels routine. Not only is the player and fan connection removed from individual games, which has led to less late goals I believe, but its obvious that everyone knows that as much as they are being as professional as possible, it isnt the same.

Throw in the personal interest of watching my own team and I suspect I will be even more conflicted and the difference will be even more stark. In your head you will be watching snug in your armchair but everything else will be exactly the same. If Rovers made the play offs and you didnt feel a hint of annoyance that you was missing out then surely you wouldnt be human.

I have been watching behind closed doors football because theres very little to do in lockdown and even if it is only half as good as normal it is still football to watch. Ill be watching English football once it resumed but that doesnt mean I am considering it anywhere near what is on offer with supporters present.

 

Would you agree that Premier League football is a TV Sport then? I know of football fans who support Liverpool or Man City or Man Utd who never attend games but what every game of their clubs through streams and Sky Sports TV at home.  

I think me and you would rather attend Rovers games in stadiums then watch Rovers games on TV. But currently that's not available but I would rather watch Football on TV if we cant be in the stadium. Yes If Rovers did make the playoffs I would want to be there but that's aint possible sadly. That's the way it currently is. 

I watch 2 or 3 La Liga games a week, which will be less possibly if they clash with watching Rovers and PL games. But you don't hear many of their clubs fans inside Stadiums.  

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1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

So you want no EFL for years if we don't get a vaccine or treatment? Most EFL clubs would have gone bankrupt as wages of players would still have to be paid if under contract. 

Stuart's previous argument about why football shouldn't return no longer holds as much weight as tests now seem to be in plentiful supply so he is now turning his attention to something different entirely. 

The TV Companies are now the root of all evil in the game. Apparently.

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I have been getting quite irritated by the 'new normal' talk and 'the world and our lives will never be the same again' dramatic stuff. I think some people just love to overdo it at times.

Clearly if anyone has lost a friend or family member to the virus that is terrible and lives will be permanently affected by that, in just the same way as they would if a friend or family member died from any other cause. This is not what i am getting at.

All the changes to our daily lives - work patterns, social distancing, no events, no sports, no pubs or restaurants - should be treated as very much temporary adjustments to deal with the outbreak and manage it until one of three things happens:

1) A vaccine is developed and distributed

2) The virus dies out naturally/is starved of hosts to spread

3) An effective treatment is developed or discovered which means the virus can be allowed to spread 

If we can't do one of these within the next 12-18 months then forget about a 'new normal' where we just have to sit at home and watch TV rather than go to the pub or have to watch Rovers on Sky for a few years. There won't be pubs, society, sport to go back to. Which might be fine for some but then there's the economic impact of that, the harm it will do to lives as a result. Catastrophic.

 

I suspected from the moment the lockdown was announced that this pandemic, whilst a logistical nightmare for the organisers of football, would actually also be used as a quite convenient cover for a re-alignment of how supporters recieve their football in this country for years to come. Not to mention numerous other things they've been wanting to bring in. This provides the perfect opportunity and cover for them to do it with minimal trouble. 

Mid-season breaks, especially with Qatar 2022 on the horizon - that problem has just about sorted itself out now

European Super League - expect that to escalate rapidly when they get around to dealing with next season - UEFA won't let the golden goose lie and will sacrifice domestic leagues to ensure the 'big boys' play each other.

I'm reluctant to be a guinea pig in a new era of Sky/BT controlling football. The only reason it has resumed is because Sky are forcing it and can practically taste the new subsriptions coming in when it resumes. I can almost hear them coining it in now as they prepare to 'welcome' football back into our lives and 'present the show' to millions of existing and new subsribers around the UK. Are they going to give that up without a fight once the restrictions are eventually removed? 

Not for me thanks. I dislike watching Rovers on TV even if it isn't live. The thought of doing so whilst paying Sky to watch glorified friendlies infront of empty grounds. Think I'll sit in the garden.

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Would you agree that Premier League football is a TV Sport then? I know of football fans who support Liverpool or Man City or Man Utd who never attend games but what every game of their clubs through streams and Sky Sports TV at home.  

I think me and you would rather attend Rovers games in stadiums then watch Rovers games on TV. But currently that's not available but I would rather watch Football on TV if we cant be in the stadium. Yes If Rovers did make the playoffs I would want to be there but that's aint possible sadly. That's the way it currently is. 

I watch 2 or 3 La Liga games a week, which will be less possibly if they clash with watching Rovers and PL games. But you don't hear many of their clubs fans inside Stadiums.  

No football is a TV sport in the way that behind closed doors football will be, no. Now it will ONLY be a TV sport.

I struggle to empathise with fans who support big teams and just watch on tv as they cannot get the same degree of enjoyment from their team as we do but you are missing the point. Its not the fact as to whether a game is on TV. Even if every game was on tv, thats not the change to focus on, its having fans present or not in the ground. Say a Liverpool fan only watches on TV, and couldnt find Anfield if his life depended on it, it would still massively dampen his feeling even watching on TV as per usual if Henderson lifts that Premier League trophy in front of fans, and even the open top bus parade etc, over going through the motions to fulfill the fixtures and win in an echoey and empty stadium. It wont feel the same and neither will the run of games leading to it, and thats my point.

You are somewhat accepting that it will be a worse experience because you cant attend but not fully. Go back to the run in during League 1, some of the games and tenseness, say it got to the last few games and we was right in the hunt, it is IMPOSSIBLE to replicate that feeling behind closed doors.

Your comment about often not noticing fans is inaccurate on many levels. The bit that I dont think you appreciate is that its not just the fact that you are there or not there. Theres no burst of celebration when a goal goes in anymore, its very sanitised. Theres no late pressure in a hunt for an equaliser with the crowd sucking the ball into the net. Theres far less pressure. Theres no edge. Its not the same. 

Your point that youd prefer to watch behind closed doors on TV over nothing is a fair and valid one if you appreciate that behind closed doors football is nothing like what it was before. You can accept that even though you know and understand that its the only possible way at the moment.

 

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28 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I hate the phrase "new normal" because it implies a permanent change. I see behind closed doors now as an unfortunate and massively inferior temporary substitute that hopefully will be for a short a time span as possible.

Firstly it is a mistruth to suggest that football is already a TV sport is a mistruth. Whilst the amount of football moved for TV is more than ever, showing matches in front of fans very much part of the experience. Now, unfortunately it is a case of teams fulfilling fixtures as a matter of course, going through the motions.

Before all of this, I would occasionally watch foreign football but it felt like it meant something before, even as a neutral with a passive interest it is chalk and cheese. The difference between big and small is even bigger, players no longer treat goals with euphoria and it all feels routine. Not only is the player and fan connection removed from individual games, which has led to less late goals I believe, but its obvious that everyone knows that as much as they are being as professional as possible, it isnt the same.

Throw in the personal interest of watching my own team and I suspect I will be even more conflicted and the difference will be even more stark. In your head you will be watching snug in your armchair but everything else will be exactly the same. If Rovers made the play offs and you didnt feel a hint of annoyance that you was missing out then surely you wouldnt be human.

I have been watching behind closed doors football because theres very little to do in lockdown and even if it is only half as good as normal it is still football to watch. Ill be watching English football once it resumed but that doesnt mean I am considering it anywhere near what is on offer with supporters present.

 

I agree with much of that post, most of it is very fair, particularly the part about "the new normal". Games BCD should never be considered as "normal" in much the same way as lockdown restrictions and social distancing should only be considered emergency temporary measures and not the new norm in real life as well.

Where I do strongly disagree is your assertion that teams "finishing the season" is them going through the motions". For me it's about trying to finish the season in the fairest possible manner and by your own admission you've been pleasantly surprised with the standard of the Bundesliga and there 's no suggestion they've been holding back or half hearted about it.

Hopefully the Premier League, Championship, and maybe even League 1 will be the same when they return.

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13 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I have been getting quite irritated by the 'new normal' talk and 'the world and our lives will never be the same again' dramatic stuff. I think some people just love to overdo it at times.

Clearly if anyone has lost a friend or family member to the virus that is terrible and lives will be permanently affected by that, in just the same way as they would if a friend or family member died from any other cause. This is not what i am getting at.

All the changes to our daily lives - work patterns, social distancing, no events, no sports, no pubs or restaurants - should be treated as very much temporary adjustments to deal with the outbreak and manage it until one of three things happens:

1) A vaccine is developed and distributed

2) The virus dies out naturally/is starved of hosts to spread

3) An effective treatment is developed or discovered which means the virus can be allowed to spread 

If we can't do one of these within the next 12-18 months then forget about a 'new normal' where we just have to sit at home and watch TV rather than go to the pub or have to watch Rovers on Sky for a few years. There won't be pubs, society, sport to go back to. Which might be fine for some but then there's the economic impact of that, the harm it will do to lives as a result. Catastrophic.

 

I suspected from the moment the lockdown was announced that this pandemic, whilst a logistical nightmare for the organisers of football, would actually also be used as a quite convenient cover for a re-alignment of how supporters recieve their football in this country for years to come. Not to mention numerous other things they've been wanting to bring in. This provides the perfect opportunity and cover for them to do it with minimal trouble. 

Mid-season breaks, especially with Qatar 2022 on the horizon - that problem has just about sorted itself out now

European Super League - expect that to escalate rapidly when they get around to dealing with next season - UEFA won't let the golden goose lie and will sacrifice domestic leagues to ensure the 'big boys' play each other.

I'm reluctant to be a guinea pig in a new era of Sky/BT controlling football. The only reason it has resumed is because Sky are forcing it and can practically taste the new subsriptions coming in when it resumes. I can almost hear them coining it in now as they prepare to 'welcome' football back into our lives and 'present the show' to millions of existing and new subsribers around the UK. Are they going to give that up without a fight once the restrictions are eventually removed? 

Not for me thanks. I dislike watching Rovers on TV even if it isn't live. The thought of doing so whilst paying Sky to watch glorified friendlies infront of empty grounds. Think I'll sit in the garden.

(Imo) Great first half of your post when you seem to be saying the "new normal" is not normal but a necessary and temporary evil.

Then you seem to contradict that in the second half by saying it's not for you so I'm not really sure where you're coming from on it.

Are you saying it is or isn't necessary to resume BCD? If you're saying it is, but that it's not for you therefore you will sit it out until fans are allowed back in, I can fully respect that.

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4 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I agree with much of that post, most of it is very fair, particularly the part about "the new normal". Games BCD should never be considered as "normal" in much the same way as lockdown restrictions and social distancing should only be considered emergency temporary measures and not the new norm in real life as well.

Where I do strongly disagree is your assertion that teams "finishing the season" is them going through the motions". For me it's about trying to finish the season in the fairest possible manner and by your own admission you've been pleasantly surprised with the standard of the Bundesliga and there 's no suggestion they've been holding back or half hearted about it.

Hopefully the Premier League, Championship, and maybe even League 1 will be the same when they return.

The standard has been higher than I expected but still not quite at 100% and on behalf of all key stakeholders the edge has not been there. Player professionalism will ensure the games are of good standard I admit but it does very much feel like going through the motions overall.

When a goal goes in everything is very subdued. Obviously there is probably a dual instinct of not having supporters to celebrate in front of, and also the fact that at the end of the season and all of the time in between, it is all in an atmosphere no different to training, even if and when they are lifting a trophy.

Surely based on your overall stance you would agree that behind closed doors is no more than a temporary best alternative and not a full substitute though which is my point really.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

(Imo) Great first half of your post when you seem to be saying the "new normal" is not normal but a necessary and temporary evil.

Then you seem to contradict that in the second half by saying it's not for you so I'm not really sure where you're coming from on it.

Are you saying it is or isn't necessary to resume BCD? If you're saying it is, but that it's not for you therefore you will sit it out until fans are allowed back in, I can fully respect that.

I don't think BCD games are necessary. I understand the argument that it can be considered the most 'fair' way to end the season but i think there's a debate to be had there. In my view, risks considered, the most appropriate solution would have been to void the whole season, wait for things to settle down over the next 6 months or so with regular reassessments and then start afresh for 2020-21 when the time is right. Something would need to be done about Bolton's point deduction but other than that there would be winners and losers. Shame for Liverpool, Leeds, WBA, but good for Norwich, Luton, Barnsley. That's life.

I think if Sky didn't have English football over a financial barrel the story would be very different indeed. I don't buy this about the authorities wanting to boost morale or ensure fairness in the leagues. Its a financial decision made in no small part by those who pay the piper and their desires to see football on TV asap.

I can understand why some people want football back in their lives asap and are relishing the prospect of sitting at home with it on tv every night. I'm not. IMV watching games in empty grounds through Sky is not something that i have any real desire to do. I may watch bits but won't be sat glued to the tv enjoying the 'bonanza' of Sky coverage.

Those saying we can't have crowds in grounds again until a vaccine arrives - nobody seems to be considering the possibility of one not arriving. Then what? We spend the rest of our lives never going to any large gatherings or social events - weddings, birthday parties, football, cricket, festivals? Not feasible. They will have to come up with an alternative.

 

Edited by JHRover

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