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Kamy100

Football League Suspended

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Just now, roversfan99 said:

I have never had an ifollow account but I have also heard before that it can be unreliable so suspect the increase in demand may cause problems too.

It's going to be a shambles, and not just at Rovers. iFollow is laggy at the best of times with 500 viewers, make that 10,000 people streaming at once and it'll be unwatchable.

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13 minutes ago, arbitro said:

How can the rules change part way through. Earlier in the season having the opportunity to use five substitutes may well have brought about different results and different tactics from clubs. Of course we'll never know for sure but I but I don't believe there has ever been a precedent for such a radical change part way there season.

Your point about signings in January is moot because the rules are in place at the beginning of the season, not being  changed part way through.

 

I don't think there's any absolute right or wrong opinion on this, on balance it seems to me to be an entirely sensible move to try and protect players from muscle injuries following a curtailed "pre season" .

And that the benefit far outweighs any potential unfairness. 

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1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It might not be possible to compel Clubs to play but if they don't then surely you don't expect them to be able to keep money already paid for a service they haven't or can't subsequently deliver.

If I've read you correctly your overall position on ST refunds is you would like one from Rovers to compensate for the games you'll be unable to view in the flesh.

If you expect a refund off the Club, surely by the same line of reasoning the TV Companies should be able to get one off the Clubs as well!

I’d like a refund but the club could probably point to a contract clause where they don’t have to provide one.

3 hours ago, perthblue02 said:

And there’s the rub. iFollow will allow season ticket holders to watch (presumably home games) for free. Fair play. Although it is still down to clubs but it would prevent a refund. Although Waggott could still go down the cynical route of a discount on a future season ticket - meaning you have to pay again to get anything back - but let’s see.

However, it will cost £10 to watch games that you don’t already have a ticket for? £10 to watch what will effectively be a training game for points.

Move over “Champagne Football” we’re in for Lambrini football at champagne prices!!

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56 minutes ago, barry_ said:

I had tickets for Barnsley away, phoned the ticket ofice and they said send the tickets in to them and they'll refund 

Tickets for individual games are fully refundable. Season tickets only entitle you to attend games that are available. So in actuality they are not legally obliged to give refunds. But it would be good PR to offer something.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I don't think there's any absolute right or wrong opinion on this, on balance it seems to me to be an entirely sensible move to try and protect players from muscle injuries following a curtailed "pre season" .

And that the benefit far outweighs any potential unfairness. 

Give over ..these players have had ten week to keep fit ... monitored by the club ..not gallivanting in Ibiza for three weeks....nothing like a pre season at all. They all knew they would be coming back at some point ..ok ..why not in future allow the first ten games of the season you can use five subs ..because they re coming back from pre season and protect the players from injury ?  Dear oh dear ..

 

Edited by HowieFive0

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24 minutes ago, HowieFive0 said:

Give over ..these players have had ten week to keep fit ... monitored by the club ..not gallivanting in Ibiza for three weeks....nothing like a pre season at all. They all knew they would be coming back at some point ..ok ..why not in future allow the first ten games of the season you can use five subs ..because they re coming back from pre season and protect the players from injury ?  Dear oh dear ..

Theres a massive difference between being in decent shape and being match fit. It's a while to have been not playing competitive football, agreed it's not quite pre season but still.

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Just now, Ossydave said:

Theres a massive difference between being in decent shape and being match fit. It's a while to have been not playing competitive football, agreed it's not quite pre season but still.

So lets take away the unpredictablity  from a game because we dont want players injured ?? All seen it ..keeper gets injured and we all shout .."They ve used all their subs!!. ..oh wait they ve still two more to go ..." ..Its a tactical game ..you ve three replacements to use ..sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt ..not we ve used three ..not worked ..lets try two more ..til it does work .Again ..gives managers to even correct their subs ! Crazy.

Why do we not win on our footie coupon Dave ..? Because of unpredictable situations ..introduce five subs ..you start to take that away in a big way .And only teams in depth will benefit. You may have best the eleven starting every week but not a lot on the bench  but when you ve to play 16 fresh  decent players you re going to get done at some point.

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4 minutes ago, HowieFive0 said:

So lets take away the unpredictablity  from a game because we dont want players injured ?? All seen it ..keeper gets injured and we all shout .."They ve used all their subs!!. ..oh wait they ve still two more to go ..." ..Its a tactical game ..you ve three replacements to use ..sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt ..not we ve used three ..not worked ..lets try two more ..til it does work .Again ..gives managers to even correct their subs ! Crazy.

Why do we not win on our footie coupon Dave ..? Because of unpredictable situations ..introduce five subs ..you start to take that away in a big way .And only teams in depth will benefit. You may have best the eleven starting every week but not a lot on the bench  but when you ve to play 16 fresh  decent players you re going to get done at some point.

Not even saying I agree with the 5 subs, I was merely commenting on the fitness issue....

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Just now, Ossydave said:

Not even saying I agree with the 5 subs, I was merely commenting on the fitness issue....

Sorry Dave if thats how i came across ..apologies. Fitness wise all teams starting at the same level ..all been monitored through the break not like Summer were players do and eat what they like with no monitoring. Im sure there will be injuries but as a sport that adds to the drama of a season ..i just think that being able to rotate five players and basically cover every injury/sending off For and Against tactically detracts from the game. 

Lets put it this way if this was a rule in USA soccer ...and muted to be introduced here ...im damn sure everyone would be knocking it sideways .

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1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I don't think there's any absolute right or wrong opinion on this, on balance it seems to me to be an entirely sensible move to try and protect players from muscle injuries following a curtailed "pre season" .

And that the benefit far outweighs any potential unfairness. 

Aside from two or three weeks the players have all had fitness programmes specifically designed for each individual during the lockdown period. And by the time the season restarts they will have been back for nearly four weeks. On Rovers specifically I have read several interviews praising the players fitness levels. So I don't but the susceptible to injuries line.

Extra substitutes is something that some managers have been pushing for for some time now. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I don't expect a refund from the Club as the situation isn't their fault. Indeed I'd go as far as saying I wouldn't dream of asking for one.

However I accept that that isn't everyone's position and that technically people are entitled to refunds even if I personally would feel very uncomfortable requesting one.

I think the deafening silence from the Club on the issue is really poor. Rather than say nothing I'd have a lot more respect if they were up front and honest and said that whilst they would like to be in a position to offer refunds, they're simply not in a position to do so.

All boils down to the players at the end of the day. Maybe if they'd said some time ago that they were going without their wage or at least accepting a very substantial reduction for the forseeable rather than a piddling little deferral, I might feel more minded to consider asking for a refund.

It isn't my fault either, so why should i relinquish money that i've handed over for goods undelivered?

I am undecided on whether to request one, but I am struggling to feel guilty or uncomfortable when I see players turning up in Range Rovers at Brockhall on £10,000+ a week, none of whom have taken any wage reduction, whilst i have also lost income during this period. 

I struggle to feel uncomfortable when Steve Waggott is set to collect his £300,000 for the year whilst yet again it is the regular average season ticket holders expected to pick up the tab because of their loyalty. 

I agree the silence is poor from the club. 

I was looking at Derby's website earlier. They've announced 5 options for season ticket holders:

  1. Pro rata refund 
  2. 20% off next years season ticket
  3. 10% off next years season ticket with free subscription for BCD games
  4. 4 x match ticket vouchers for next season
  5. No refund - donate to the club

A very fair, sensible and effective way of dealing with it. An option for everyone, an incentive to renew next season, an option for those who pick their games, an option for those who want to walk away from their money and not claim it.

Lets see if Rovers can come up with something remotely this reasonable. I expect not.

If it was I'm almost certain I'd go for option 2 and be quite happy about it. I'd like to think a lot of others would do the same thus ensuring a healthy renewal level for next season whilst also ensuring immediate cash flow isn't harmed.

Edited by JHRover

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1 hour ago, Stuart said:

I’d like a refund but the club could probably point to a contract clause where they don’t have to provide one.

And there’s the rub. iFollow will allow season ticket holders to watch (presumably home games) for free. Fair play. Although it is still down to clubs but it would prevent a refund. Although Waggott could still go down the cynical route of a discount on a future season ticket - meaning you have to pay again to get anything back - but let’s see.

However, it will cost £10 to watch games that you don’t already have a ticket for? £10 to watch what will effectively be a training game for points.

Move over “Champagne Football” we’re in for Lambrini football at champagne prices!!

The issue I have is i expect Rovers will consider the offer of Ifollow as an adequate or fair replacement of a season ticket, but it isn't.

I live in a house with another season ticket holder, plus an ex season ticket holder. So between us we've 3 quite keen Rovers fans, two who have paid close to £700 for the season and are circa £100 down on the 4 missed games. Now i don't accept that a pass to watch it on a TV which we all have access to is the same as admission to the ground.

Per game my season ticket is just over £15 in the JW. Supposedly the cheapest way to watch Rovers per game. Yet if my understanding is correct then Joe Bloggs who never had a season ticket can watch games for £10 a time, or for nothing if he shares a house with someone else who has Ifollow access.

 

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6 minutes ago, JHRover said:

It isn't my fault either, so why should i relinquish money that i've handed over for goods undelivered?

I am undecided on whether to request one, but I am struggling to feel guilty or uncomfortable when I see players turning up in Range Rovers at Brockhall on £10,000+ a week, none of whom have taken any wage reduction, whilst i have also lost income during this period. 

I struggle to feel uncomfortable when Steve Waggott is set to collect his £300,000 for the year whilst yet again it is the regular average season ticket holders expected to pick up the tab because of their loyalty. 

I agree the silence is poor from the club. 

I was looking at Derby's website earlier. They've announced 5 options for season ticket holders:

  1. Pro rata refund 
  2. 20% off next years season ticket
  3. 10% off next years season ticket with free subscription for BCD games
  4. 4 x match ticket vouchers for next season
  5. No refund - donate to the club

A very fair, sensible and effective way of dealing with it. An option for everyone, an incentive to renew next season, an option for those who pick their games, an option for those who want to walk away from their money and not claim it.

Lets see if Rovers can come up with something remotely this reasonable. I expect not.

If it was I'm almost certain I'd go for option 2 and be quite happy about it. I'd like to think a lot of others would do the same thus ensuring a healthy renewal level for next season whilst also ensuring immediate cash flow isn't harmed.

hope its something like that i would go for option 2 as well , we have 4 tickets so one would take opton 3 so we could watch all remaining games .

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22 minutes ago, JHRover said:

The issue I have is i expect Rovers will consider the offer of Ifollow as an adequate or fair replacement of a season ticket, but it isn't.

I live in a house with another season ticket holder, plus an ex season ticket holder. So between us we've 3 quite keen Rovers fans, two who have paid close to £700 for the season and are circa £100 down on the 4 missed games. Now i don't accept that a pass to watch it on a TV which we all have access to is the same as admission to the ground.

Per game my season ticket is just over £15 in the JW. Supposedly the cheapest way to watch Rovers per game. Yet if my understanding is correct then Joe Bloggs who never had a season ticket can watch games for £10 a time, or for nothing if he shares a house with someone else who has Ifollow access.

That’s another way of looking at it I guess but let’s face it, it’s not close to being the same product. iFollow our to be a couple of quid per game, or £10 per month. That’s the going rate for streaming movies and tv.

And I’d still rather watch live at £13 per game.

Sadly, the longer this goes on and the more we hear that TV is more important than fans, the less interested I become.

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Just looked $19 for a monthly pass iFollow subscription (if based abroad).  So, if bought on 20th June, that would pretty much get all the remaining games for £15. Which takes the piss even more that they want £10 per game for UK viewers for a pretty ropey service at the best of times.

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44 minutes ago, JHRover said:

The issue I have is i expect Rovers will consider the offer of Ifollow as an adequate or fair replacement of a season ticket, but it isn't.

I live in a house with another season ticket holder, plus an ex season ticket holder. So between us we've 3 quite keen Rovers fans, two who have paid close to £700 for the season and are circa £100 down on the 4 missed games. Now i don't accept that a pass to watch it on a TV which we all have access to is the same as admission to the ground.

Per game my season ticket is just over £15 in the JW. Supposedly the cheapest way to watch Rovers per game. Yet if my understanding is correct then Joe Bloggs who never had a season ticket can watch games for £10 a time, or for nothing if he shares a house with someone else who has Ifollow access.

 

Thats another really good point and one I hadnt thought of regarding numerous people in the same households all being sent links.

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4 hours ago, HowieFive0 said:

Well my local boozer will be seeing less of me after what ive saved these last ten weeks or so !

The sobering (in every respect of the word) thought here is that your local boozer will likely call last orders for the final time in the near future, along with many, many others.

 

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If Rovers don't offer any refund then when grounds are open to fans again they will lose fans simple fact. 

I and many more won't give up any more hard earned cash when the likes of Waggot and the rest haven't done their bit ie took a wage cut 

 

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11 hours ago, JHRover said:

It isn't my fault either, so why should i relinquish money that i've handed over for goods undelivered?

I am undecided on whether to request one, but I am struggling to feel guilty or uncomfortable when I see players turning up in Range Rovers at Brockhall on £10,000+ a week, none of whom have taken any wage reduction, whilst i have also lost income during this period. 

I struggle to feel uncomfortable when Steve Waggott is set to collect his £300,000 for the year whilst yet again it is the regular average season ticket holders expected to pick up the tab because of their loyalty. 

I agree the silence is poor from the club. 

I was looking at Derby's website earlier. They've announced 5 options for season ticket holders:

  1. Pro rata refund 
  2. 20% off next years season ticket
  3. 10% off next years season ticket with free subscription for BCD games
  4. 4 x match ticket vouchers for next season
  5. No refund - donate to the club

A very fair, sensible and effective way of dealing with it. An option for everyone, an incentive to renew next season, an option for those who pick their games, an option for those who want to walk away from their money and not claim it.

Lets see if Rovers can come up with something remotely this reasonable. I expect not.

If it was I'm almost certain I'd go for option 2 and be quite happy about it. I'd like to think a lot of others would do the same thus ensuring a healthy renewal level for next season whilst also ensuring immediate cash flow isn't harmed.

That's really excellent from Derby, like you say, something for everyone. Not sure how anyone could complain at that although I'm sure Stuart would have a damn good try. 🙂

I'd take option 5 (and renew to whatever's on offer).

I wonder how Clubs would deal with a situation whereby the season starts BCD then switches back to normal half way through? Would it have to be two prices advertised in advance, price A for a streaming pass whilst games are BCD and price B once things have gone back to normal?

That would work for supporters paying monthly by DD which can be altered but how do you cater for fans wanting to pay it off upfront?

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13 hours ago, JHRover said:

It isn't my fault either, so why should i relinquish money that i've handed over for goods undelivered?

I am undecided on whether to request one, but I am struggling to feel guilty or uncomfortable when I see players turning up in Range Rovers at Brockhall on £10,000+ a week, none of whom have taken any wage reduction, whilst i have also lost income during this period. 

I struggle to feel uncomfortable when Steve Waggott is set to collect his £300,000 for the year whilst yet again it is the regular average season ticket holders expected to pick up the tab because of their loyalty. 

I agree the silence is poor from the club. 

I was looking at Derby's website earlier. They've announced 5 options for season ticket holders:

  1. Pro rata refund 
  2. 20% off next years season ticket
  3. 10% off next years season ticket with free subscription for BCD games
  4. 4 x match ticket vouchers for next season
  5. No refund - donate to the club

A very fair, sensible and effective way of dealing with it. An option for everyone, an incentive to renew next season, an option for those who pick their games, an option for those who want to walk away from their money and not claim it.

Lets see if Rovers can come up with something remotely this reasonable. I expect not.

If it was I'm almost certain I'd go for option 2 and be quite happy about it. I'd like to think a lot of others would do the same thus ensuring a healthy renewal level for next season whilst also ensuring immediate cash flow isn't harmed.

We won’t announce anything like that “until we know what division we will be in”.

You are bang on the money with your observations though. Waggott has long used loyalty as the stick to lead the cash cows, sorry, supporters, with. £300k... for what? Leading a loss-making, cash-haemorrhaging, fanbase-shrinking club. What’s the measure of success? Promotion from L1? Punching above our weight as a small time northern club? What can we expect Madame with such an uncommitted local population who won’t pay whatever prices or schemes we set up?”. It could be argued that the fan-fending approach is helping to maintain the facade that “thinking big”, let alone trying to increase attendances, is pointless. BCD is going to be a weight off.

In contrast Derby are showing their commitment to fans and will get it back in spades.

Over to Waggott...

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I see several managers are upset about resuming on 20th June saying it is too soon. Barnsley, Sheff Wed and QPR managers all moaning. 

I suspect there's absolutely no chance of a delay now that Sky have gone public with their coverage

 

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3 hours ago, Athlete said:

If Rovers don't offer any refund then when grounds are open to fans again they will lose fans simple fact. 

I and many more won't give up any more hard earned cash when the likes of Waggot and the rest haven't done their bit ie took a wage cut 

It’s a good point you make. It certainly doesn’t feel as though clubs, club staff and fans are “in this together”.

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Just watching Bayer Leverkusen v Bayern Munich and they have crowd noises after a goal and I can honestly say that they sound ridicilious and make a further mockery of it all.

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On 05/06/2020 at 17:31, MarkBRFC said:

To be fair this is just a EFL/Sky announcement, let's at least give the club a chance to make a statement over the next few days into what options are for supporters, as every club will be different no doubt.

I hope they do the right thing and offer those who need it cash refunds, but we'll see.

I got my refunds for the Barnsley and Wigan away games a few weeks ago, I just rang them up and asked the question. Posted them back to the club and they refunded.

Ok thanks

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There are people saying they might not go to the Rovers because of a break to a habit.I don’t go to the Rovers out of habit. I go because I love the club.

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