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1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

According to a report in the newspapers 2 days ago season ticket holders at all clubs in the Championship will be able to see all remaining home and away on iFollow for free- that strikes me as a very fair compromise.

Not for everyone it isnt. Many dont have an interest in behind closed doors football which is totally understandable. There is also the limited value of say a number of people within the same household all getting an ifollow link, that will be fairly common. I think the club (and every other club) needs to offer the option of a refund like I think Derby have done, that wouldnt be the best choice for the club in terms of cash flow at this time but it could potentially save a few supporters in the long run so will be worth it.

I do also think that it isnt particularly difficult to send out a mass email and a letter to season ticket holders (they already send regular emails to season ticket holders) explaining from the club that they will hear in due course rather than just copying and pasting the EFL statements spiel word for word. I am also not bothered about it but can see that quite a few are and its about keeping your supporters in the loop.

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1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

You said refunds were mentioned in the second quote, Paul said ‘where?’ and you went off on one and said you never mentioned refunds! Just that ‘YOU’LL GET YOUR REFUND!!’ Err Ok! :tu:

 

I said I never claimed refund details had been announced, I am claiming that they did announce that refund details WILL be announced.

You're misunderstanding. Re-read if you need to. Not explaining again.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I said I never claimed refund details had been announced, I am claiming that they did announce that refund details WILL be announced.

You're misunderstanding. Re-read if you need to. Not explaining again.

I’ve honestly not seen anything refund related (including a pre-emptive flagging) mentioned by the club and I’ve read everything COVID related on the website.

I don’t want to anger you, so I won’t ask you to find and post the link, maybe Chaddy can as he’s the king of links for brfcs...

Edited by Mattyblue

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Just now, Mattyblue said:

I’ve honestly not seen anything refund related mentioned by the club and I’ve read everything COVID related on the website.

I don’t want to anger you, so I won’t ask you to find and post the link, maybe Chaddy can as he’s the king of links for brfcs...

It's right there on the website homepage the article I quoted. I'll happily grab it if you so wish. The club have quite clearly stated that nothing is set in stone yet and that details will be announced in due course.

What baffles me is that anybody can ring the club at any time and enquire about this, but instead we'll all sit refreshing our email inbox waiting for them to say "nothing confirmed yet". Absolute insanity this.

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4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Not for everyone it isnt. Many dont have an interest in behind closed doors football which is totally understandable. There is also the limited value of say a number of people within the same household all getting an ifollow link, that will be fairly common. I think the club (and every other club) needs to offer the option of a refund like I think Derby have done, that wouldnt be the best choice for the club in terms of cash flow at this time but it could potentially save a few supporters in the long run so will be worth it.

I do also think that it isnt particularly difficult to send out a mass email and a letter to season ticket holders (they already send regular emails to season ticket holders) explaining from the club that they will hear in due course rather than just copying and pasting the EFL statements spiel word for word. I am also not bothered about it but can see that quite a few are and its about keeping your supporters in the loop.

The multi-Season ticket household is a good point.

The family of 4 all with STs are going to be getting a much poorer deal than the household with one ST holder. 

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6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Not for everyone it isnt. Many dont have an interest in behind closed doors football which is totally understandable. There is also the limited value of say a number of people within the same household all getting an ifollow link, that will be fairly common. I think the club (and every other club) needs to offer the option of a refund like I think Derby have done, that wouldnt be the best choice for the club in terms of cash flow at this time but it could potentially save a few supporters in the long run so will be worth it.

I do also think that it isnt particularly difficult to send out a mass email and a letter to season ticket holders (they already send regular emails to season ticket holders) explaining from the club that they will hear in due course rather than just copying and pasting the EFL statements spiel word for word. I am also not bothered about it but can see that quite a few are and its about keeping your supporters in the loop.

Agreed. Club will have to address this but I imagine they won't, along with most others. It's an issue that I think cannot really be dealt with. Three season ticket holders my way who'll all be watching iFollow on the same screen.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, JoeH said:

It's right there on the website homepage the article I quoted. I'll happily grab it if you so wish. The club have quite clearly stated that nothing is set in stone yet and that details will be announced in due course.

What baffles me is that anybody can ring the club at any time and enquire about this, but instead we'll all sit refreshing our email inbox waiting for them to say "nothing confirmed yet". Absolute insanity this.

Please do.

End of the day Joe, as anyone that has worked in comms will know (like I have), it is communication 101 to keep in touch regularly. Even if it’s a ‘holding statement’, my bosses would have my head if I was delivering a project/or had paying customers and we offered radio silence for months on end, especially in a crisis like this. It doesn’t matter that there were no real developments. 

Some fans aren’t following all this as closely as we are, and will be completely in the dark without comms from the club, that’s just the way it is with a diverse customer base.

No idea why you are getting so worked up.  Especially as brfcs has been fairly mild in its criticism of the club since shutdown (which is most abnormal for this place), saving most of its ire for the authorities.


 

 

Edited by Mattyblue

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Just now, Mattyblue said:

as anyone that has worked in comms will know (like I have), it is communication 101 to keep in touch regularly.

It is poor PR to churn out identical statements to the prior statement which don't provide any new information. Which is exactly what a statement would do right now, as there's not yet currently any more information to give.

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Just now, JoeH said:

It is poor PR to churn out identical statements to the prior statement which don't provide any new information. Which is exactly what a statement would do right now, as there's not yet currently any more information to give.

Exactly right, so don’t churn out identical statements. Things have changed since March, if only incrementally.

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Just now, Mattyblue said:

Things have changed since March, if only incrementally.

They put out a statement on the 5th June. That is after March. Nothing's changed however between the 5th June and now.

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01254 372001 is the club ticket office number. Despite the fact there's no information to be given yet (the lady I spoke to at the ticket office explained that the club are yet to finalise refund options but it will be sorted soon), surely it makes more sense to speak to someone there at the ticket office than to get upset over it on here. The club are doing their very best, there's going to be some people who end up a little hard done by, but I don't think anybody could sit there and blame Rovers for that. It seems really unfair. I think some slack needs to be given. This is a really tough situation that they've got to handle, they can't please everybody.

How do you price a refund either? Divide the price by 23 games and then add up the ones missed, or do you look at the match category rating and see what a ticket would've cost. And like @roversfan99 mentioned, what do we do about multiple ST households. 

I think the reason for delay in an official stance is that every club has to consider all of these things before they put out a statement. If they rush it they'll get even more things wrong, and then people will moan even more. I'd rather them wait and try to get this right instead of forcing out an official club statement which doesn't address as many concerns as it possibly could.

You could send out a mass email to all 11,000 people on the clubs contact database and try to generalise everyones issues, but every single ST holder faces different problems. Supporters without devices to stream games on, is there going to be radio options? Are BBC Radio Lancashire covering games? Families with multiple season tickets, do they mass refund it or do they need to do that on an individual basis? ST Holders who already pay for iFollow, do they get to pay the difference between the UK Price and the Full Price because they're already paying some?

I find it so frustrating that anyone can sit here and criticise the club on this matter. There's genuinely not much more than can do right now other than re-publish the statements they've already published, re-affirm the current situation which has already been explained and tell people to be patient.

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12 hours ago, Paul said:

I've read this several times. I've also read the club email to me several times. I haven't got a f****** clue what I'm supposed to do if I want to watch Rovers on iFollow. I've only a very vague idea of how to use iFollow as I'm always in the ground!!!

All of which, once again, demonstrates the extent to which football has forgotten about the fans. The people like me who turn up every single frigging match come rain, hail, sun or snow.

I have a MyRovers account, I have a log in to buy tickets, which doesn't always work, and now I have to make sure I have a "single MyRovers log in account."

The longer this goes on without any serious consideration for the fans who turn up every week the less likely I am ever to set foot in any football ground again.

I'm quite good with IT but everything coming from the club and football in general leaves me cold and confused. I doubt any of the people issuing these statements have any understanding of the confusion they are creating.

Football today is money. Nothing else and I no longer count.

All we need is a link, click here to watch Rovers. It simply doesn't matter if we have a season ticket or not.

I totally get where you are coming from with this.

The problem is that over a number of years the club has added to its online offerings, whilst introducing things such as 'Club Cash' which have all been developed alongside one another rather than under one umbrella. Last year you needed about 4 different log ins to access everything - one for the club shop, one for tickets, one for club cash and one for I Follow. I think they have tried to address this by developing the 'My Rovers' account to bring everything under one account and password but it certainly isn't without its problems.

One of my mates has a season ticket for his young granddaughter - apparently she needs her own account and unique email address to set it up with in order to redeem club cash - quite how someone who has just gone to primary school is expected to set up and manage their own email address I'm not sure.

It's over complicated and difficult, even for someone who spends all day on computers like I do. 

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This statement from Leeds United this morning is great. https://www.leedsunited.com/news/ticketing/26662/general-admission-ticket-update

They don't use iFollow usually but have addressed some major concerns here.
Nothing as yet on season tickets but they have looked into four options for their refund policy for singular match tickets, I like it. 

They published this today, we're not exactly a million miles behind everyone else here. You can get refunds for singular match tickets now at Rovers anyway.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, JoeH said:

They put out a statement on the 5th June. That is after March. Nothing's changed however between the 5th June and now.

Sounds like we are at crossed purposes. Of course I wouldn’t have expected anything else since the 5th, that was Friday afternoon!

Im talking about how we heard nothing from March till June. A lot of fans have felt in the dark. I’ve lost count of the conversations I’ve had with people in recent months, with them asking me ‘what’s going on with STs?’ ‘Will we get a refund?’ Surprisingly I didn’t shout at them for having the temerity to ask.

You don’t agree that the club could have been more proactive with comms, fine. But getting angry about it doesn’t change the fact that many fans do feel that way.
 

Edited by Mattyblue

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Just now, Mattyblue said:

Surprisingly I didn’t shout at them for having the temerity to ask.

People asking questions is fine, but people unnecessarily berating the club, calling it an "abandonment" and being over the top with it does make me a little frustrated, yes.

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Have a gander at the club website for any other Championship side, Rovers aren't an odd one out. Every club is in the same boat and saying the same things at the same times. Picking us out for criticism seems really odd to me.

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The 71 EFL clubs are voting tomorrow. 

Can ifollow cope with so many fans watching on line? 

On Ewood Park being close. Why would it be open when the government message is if you can still work from home then do so. 

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33 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I said I never claimed refund details had been announced, I am claiming that they did announce that refund details WILL be announced.

You're misunderstanding. Re-read if you need to. Not explaining again.

The thing is, the announcement when it comes, might be that, there will be no refunds .

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2 hours ago, JoeH said:

I'm going to rant a little now, so skip ahead if you'd rather not listen:

Give the club a chance. This is a HUGE logistical task, and most clubs are down on staffing to sort it too. They've got to consider so many things, sort so many technical things too.

 

Half the fan base will want to watch on iFollow - well there's the log ins, the increased streaming viewership, potential fraud etc.. to consider.

The other half want money back - well then you've got to analyse the purchase history for ST holders, half season ticket holders, 6-game holders and 4-game holders. You've then got to contact everyone that's just been mentioned, explain their options, execute their wishes.\

There's 9,000+ people, all wanting different things, it's a massive undertaking even for giants like United with their infrastructure. Give the club a chance and just relax a little, in time, all the options will be available for refunds and whatnot. Seems absolutely astronomically absurd to me to be getting angry over something like this. It's going to happen. Christ.

 

Consider the role of somebody in the ticket office right now, consider what their day looks like. Can you just imagine the pressures on clubs right now to get things right. They've got so much shit to deal with, stuff that nobody is prepared for because this has never happened before. I don't know if you've ever rung to get a refund for anything before but even at the best of times that's a ten minute phone call.

Let's say right now it's still a ten minute phone call, and let's say 4,000 people want their money back. You're looking at 40,000 minutes of phone time to refund those people. 480 minutes per working day to do phone calls. Let's say there's five people answering the phone, so 2400 minutes a day. 40,000 minutes, divided by the 2400 minutes possible to complete every single day, leaves you with 16 days worth of work just in phoning people and sorting refunds. SIXTEEN days worth of work for the ticket office, just sorting out refunds. Well we haven't got that long, the season starts sooner than that. So everyone's already run off their feet just dealing with this half of the requests.

Now consider the other 6,000 ST holders, the ones who now want an iFollow log on that they've never had before. Imagine the phone calls for troubleshooting those issues, getting people online, making sure the servers can cope with that load. 

Imagine the work being done to try and ensure that every single fan can get exactly what they want, imagine how little your individual issues matter in the grand scheme of things, and give them a God-damn break. They WILL get round to you, they WILL sort things out, and when they do they deserve a round of applause because right now it must be an absolute nightmare for them.

I don't think it is that difficult. Once the league and Sky have decided what is happening, or should i say once Sky have told the league what is happening, then it should be reasonably straight forward to sort something out. 

I don't see why you need to analyse purchasing histories of fans. If you have a season ticket, or half season ticket, or had bought tickets for the 4 remaining games, then you should be entitled to a refund if the club isn't allowing you access to watch the games when they happen. 

In terms of contacting everyone I'm sure the club will have either an email or postal address for every season ticket holder and can send a standard uniform email out to them once approved with a few clicks on a computer. 

In terms of someone in the ticket office I don't think they are doing anything at this moment in time, same applies to most non footballing staff at the club. As I understand it the place went into lockdown in late March and hasn't really opened since. Other than for online shopping. I think if you try ringing them now you won't get through to anyone because they are all at home on furlough. 

As Derby have shown a simple 5 point scheme offering an option for everyone can be rolled out. More than enough there to satisfy the vast majority of people. Clearly a different option to suit every individual's preferences isnt realistic but it should more or less follow the route of a) donation to club b) pro rata refund c) reduction on future purchases e.g. discount on next season (this option needs to be weighted to encourage as many as possible to renew rather than accept a cash refund). 

I don't think the club is really alive to the longer term implications of getting this wrong or leaving it too long. They need to be getting people tied down to new season tickets quickly and i suspect the only way they are going to do that with some people is by offering an incentive or discount. If that isn't done then sales will plummet and then we'll spend the next few years blaming Covid and feeling sorry for ourselves whilst other clubs recover quickly and retain supporters.

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21 minutes ago, JoeH said:

01254 372001 is the club ticket office number. Despite the fact there's no information to be given yet (the lady I spoke to at the ticket office explained that the club are yet to finalise refund options but it will be sorted soon), surely it makes more sense to speak to someone there at the ticket office than to get upset over it on here. The club are doing their very best, there's going to be some people who end up a little hard done by, but I don't think anybody could sit there and blame Rovers for that. It seems really unfair. I think some slack needs to be given. This is a really tough situation that they've got to handle, they can't please everybody.

How do you price a refund either? Divide the price by 23 games and then add up the ones missed, or do you look at the match category rating and see what a ticket would've cost. And like @roversfan99 mentioned, what do we do about multiple ST households. 

I think the reason for delay in an official stance is that every club has to consider all of these things before they put out a statement. If they rush it they'll get even more things wrong, and then people will moan even more. I'd rather them wait and try to get this right instead of forcing out an official club statement which doesn't address as many concerns as it possibly could.

You could send out a mass email to all 11,000 people on the clubs contact database and try to generalise everyones issues, but every single ST holder faces different problems. Supporters without devices to stream games on, is there going to be radio options? Are BBC Radio Lancashire covering games? Families with multiple season tickets, do they mass refund it or do they need to do that on an individual basis? ST Holders who already pay for iFollow, do they get to pay the difference between the UK Price and the Full Price because they're already paying some?

I find it so frustrating that anyone can sit here and criticise the club on this matter. There's genuinely not much more than can do right now other than re-publish the statements they've already published, re-affirm the current situation which has already been explained and tell people to be patient.

I think its not too much to ask to send out a mass email or 2, with a set letters, with a much more stripped down, perhaps Q&A layout compared to the copied and pasted EFL spiel. Just assuring fans what is known and of what isnt known, that we will be further communicated to in due course.

Nobody is necessarily saying that they should have had the exact logistics on how an ifollow link can avoid the increaed traffic, exactly what options will be available etc. 

As I said earlier, its not something that bothers me but I can see why some feel detached and in the dark.

You mention that people can call the club, but the point is that the club hasnt contacted its season ticket holders, not the other way round. And it makes no sense to leave the club open to receiving numerous calls, which could be avoided with aforementioned email and letter.

I do find it a bit strange that the fixture list hasnt been announced considering that we know the order of the games and the first one is a week on Saturday.

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14 minutes ago, rigger said:

might be that, there will be no refunds .

But might be is an odd thing to get upset over, when it hasn't even happened yet.

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13 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I think if you try ringing them now you won't get through to anyone because they are all at home on furlough. 

Spoke to somebody an hour ago. Load of tosh.

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2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I think its not too much to ask to send out a mass email or 2, with a set letters, with a much more stripped down, perhaps Q&A layout compared to the copied and pasted EFL spiel. Just assuring fans what is known and of what isnt known, that we will be further communicated to in due course.

Nobody is necessarily saying that they should have had the exact logistics on how an ifollow link can avoid the increaed traffic, exactly what options will be available etc. 

As I said earlier, its not something that bothers me but I can see why some feel detached and in the dark.

You mention that people can call the club, but the point is that the club hasnt contacted its season ticket holders, not the other way round. And it makes no sense to leave the club open to receiving numerous calls, which could be avoided with aforementioned email and letter.

I do find it a bit strange that the fixture list hasnt been announced considering that we know the order of the games and the first one is a week on Saturday.

I would think that the reason for no fixture list, is that an agreement will not be reached until after the clubs meeting on Tuesday.

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Just now, JoeH said:

Spoke to somebody an hour ago. Load of tosh.

Fair enough, must be someone picking calls up then. I know that emails haven't been getting responses and the vast majority of staff have been furloughed in which case they aren't allowed to speak.

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1 minute ago, JoeH said:

Spoke to somebody an hour ago. Load of tosh.

I spoke to a lady last week. Calls were being diverted to her house. Apart from her and odd others in other departments like IT, rest are furloughed.

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