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chaddyrovers

Leeds at Home 4.7.20

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1 hour ago, Exiled_Rover said:

This hatred people have of Rothwell is baffling. Holtby was invisible, bar a 15 minute spell, yesterday. That's unacceptable yet nobody is calling him out.

Rothwell put Gallagher clean through for his miss. He was also instrumental in the build up play to the disallowed goal (how that was disallowed, but Travis was mugged for theirs is another matter).

He's not a fantastic player, but people gloss over the good stuff he does because they've made their mind up about him. 

Hatred? The reason that hes come under fire is that early on his attribute ie being quick and able to run at people were excited as they arent attribues weve seem often from Rovers players in recent years.

2 years on, a record of 2 goals and 3 assists is nowhere near enough and far too often he is totally ineffective. 

Holtby started the game really well but totally faded I would agree and was overall quite poor.

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24 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Hatred? The reason that hes come under fire is that early on his attribute ie being quick and able to run at people were excited as they arent attribues weve seem often from Rovers players in recent years.

2 years on, a record of 2 goals and 3 assists is nowhere near enough and far too often he is totally ineffective. 

Holtby started the game really well but totally faded I would agree and was overall quite poor.

I agree initially he was everything you describe. Mowbray refused to play him regularly because those exact same attributes you describe he said where a liability. Mowbray has beaten the ability out of him play my way or not at all. So he has becomr one dimensional and only passes sideways or back. Never mind though at least it fits the system and now he gets games.

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33 minutes ago, Boroblue said:

I agree initially he was everything you describe. Mowbray refused to play him regularly because those exact same attributes you describe he said where a liability. Mowbray has beaten the ability out of him play my way or not at all. So he has becomr one dimensional and only passes sideways or back. Never mind though at least it fits the system and now he gets games.

I would certainly ask questions about Mowbrays handling of him but I think its incredibly harsh to suggest that hes had the ability beaten out of him. Prior to joining the signing was very much a low risk gamble of a youngish player who had not really exerted himself as someone who had that end product even at League 1 level. After a couple of years of defensive wingers and wide strikers Rothwell broke through last year, running at players, scored a couple of screamers and I do think in hindsight it was a bit of a false dawn.

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Just now, roversfan99 said:

I would certainly ask questions about Mowbrays handling of him but I think its incredibly harsh to suggest that hes had the ability beaten out of him. Prior to joining the signing was very much a low risk gamble of a youngish player who had not really exerted himself as someone who had that end product even at League 1 level. After a couple of years of defensive wingers and wide strikers Rothwell broke through last year, running at players, scored a couple of screamers and I do think in hindsight it was a bit of a false dawn.

I would agree if rothwell was an isolated incident but he’s not. Raya is a prime example. Armstrong until dacks injury was useless. I would even place holtby in this category regardless of experience .  I’m not for a second suggesting that rothwell is the second coming but there is a pattern particularly with younger players. It’s the is it the workman or should we blame the tools. 

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45 minutes ago, Boroblue said:

I would agree if rothwell was an isolated incident but he’s not. Raya is a prime example. Armstrong until dacks injury was useless. I would even place holtby in this category regardless of experience .  I’m not for a second suggesting that rothwell is the second coming but there is a pattern particularly with younger players. It’s the is it the workman or should we blame the tools. 

Asks Nyambe to cover the entire right flank on his own, then berates him when teams get in behind him.

He's a bad man manager.

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10 hours ago, DaveyB said:

I know it's disappointing and frustrating to lose three quick games on the bounce, but I do think that some of the reaction has been a bit OTT. Personally I think that we've been more unlucky than abject

The game at Wigan - wasn't a great performance by any stretch and tbh it didn't ever look like we were going to do enough to win, but at the same time, until Walton dropped a ricket, it didn't ever look to be a game that we were in danger of losing either.

The game at Barnsley - the result doesn't look great, but first half we had over 70% possession, were in complete control of the game and had two or three fairly clear cut chances to score. Had we taken one of those then I think we would have gone on to win fairly comfortably.
Having gone behind, Mowbray tried to change things up and within 7 minutes we had Brereton sent off - and whilst I can see why it was given as a red, it was a fairly soft one and 8 or 9 times out 10 that is a yellow at most - and the sending off then affects our ability to get back into the game, especially as it comes so soon after making 4 subs and changing the formation.

The game yesterday - lots of teams will lose to Leeds, and tbh I can't imagine many of us saw us getting 3 points here, but that said we did ok - especially in the first half. Again we created 2 or 3 clear cut chances, plus had a goal ruled out for less contact on their defender than there was on Travis for their first. Had we managed to get back to 1-1 or even to get our noses in front then the second half may have been a different game.

Like I say it's disappointing/annoying to have lost all 3 games, but I think we were unlucky to lose at least 2 of those and there's a danger of letting the results colour our view of the performances.

 

And on Mowbray generally - obviously he's made some mistakes. The signings of Gallagher and Brereton look worse by the week, and Walton - there's glimpses of a player in there - he had a decent spell of games from mid-Jan to the start of the lockdown, but his form at the beginning of the season and especially since the restart has been atrocious - so that has to be another black mark against the manager.
However, when you consider the run of injuries we've had this season, I think he's done a decent enough job to have us up with a chance of the playoffs for so long. For instance, against Barnsley we were missing 4 left backs, our main centre-half, 2 centre-mids, and our best/most creative/most prolific player - and like I said we still dominated the game, in the first half at least.
(To put that into perspective, if you took Liverpool - arguably the best team in the world atm - and this afternoon against Villa took away Robertson, Milner + the next two in line for LB, Van Dijk, Henderson & Fabinho plus one of either Mane or Salah - I would probably back them still to win, but it would be much more in the balance than with those players - many on here don't seem to be able accept that missing so many means that it's more likely that we will struggle against teams like Barnsley.)

And, I know that's just one game, but we've been missing Cunningham, Evans and Dack for a large chunk of the season. Dack in particular, at the time when he got injured, was such a blow. Our team was built around him, almost everything went through him and he got injured just at the start of a run of games in quick succession, which didn't give us chance to adjust properly and meant we had a poor run in those games around Christmas. When we finally did have time to adjust properly we got back to playing well and went on a good run, which got us within touching distance of the playoffs.
And again, for those who don't see the importance of losing just 1 or 2 key men from your team, I have a City supporting mate who is adamant that the reason the gap between them and Liverpool is so big this season is down to Laporte being injured for much of the season. If a team that has spent half a Billion £s on players can be so affected by the loss of just one player, then surely we can accept that losing our best player might just affect Rovers a little bit.

 

I realise that I'm shouting into the void somewhat on here - as many of you made up your minds on Mowbray a long time ago. But for me, I can see progression each season and so I think that he has earned next season to see if we can make a serious, sustained push for the playoffs. If not, then I may well come round to the group mentality on here and call for him to be replaced.

An eloqently argued and passionate defence of Mowbray but I can't see how anyone could think we were unlucky to lose any of the last three games.

Having got to within a point of the play offs with a good performance against Bristol City we looked like we quite simply couldn't be bothered against Wigan and whilst we might have managed a 0-0 had Walton not dropped the ball, that still wouldn't have been what was required in our situation.

A couple of missed chances notwithstanding I didn't think we looked particularly up for it at Barnsley either and I thought we ended up outplayed and well beaten.

Against Leeds, the most depressing thing was that at 1-3 down at home, the only team that looked like they wanted to do anything  or make things happen was the side 3-1 up!

So depressing, and for me completely typical of Mowbray's time in charge, certainly at Championship level. Get a few decent results then sit on your laurels for a couple of months. If things are getting a bit tight, pull your finger out for a few games to move clear of danger then rinse and repeat.

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10 hours ago, WacoRover said:

I am not excusing any of our last three performances, from a managerial or player standpoint. But where were the positive comments this season, when Rovers took 21 of 30 points (Nov. 2-Dec 26) and 20 of 36 (Jan. 11-June 20)?

We had decent chances to score in all three; TM cannot be blamed when Samuel and SG whiffed on great opportunities. Going forward, those are good reasons not to play them. But don’t sack mowbray now. That makes no sense with 5 games, and it wouldn’t be fair to the new gaffer, either. 

 

The positive comments were there when we were on a positive run, we aren’t going to be gushing over a decent run in December after a run of 3 losses on the bounce and one win in 7.

Also  TM can be blamed when the strike force he put together at considerable cost aren’t doing the business.

The strikers are playing out on the wing, out of confidence and fluffing chances that come their way

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Whilst of course our strikers are further hindered by being played out wide, Gallagher, Brereton and Samuel are all poor strikers regardless.

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30 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Whilst of course our strikers are further hindered by being played out wide, Gallagher, Brereton and Samuel are all poor strikers regardless.

Yes they are and Mowbray himself, the man who spent a fortune buying them, confirms he thinks the same in his latest "quality" comments.

Straight out of Chapter 13 of Mowbray Coaching Guide for Idiots.

Whilst I have never bought into the He's a Nice Guy brainwashing that has taken place daily since he arrived that's irrelevant. He is useless as a manager and in freefall.

BUT only clubs with a forward thinking Board make changes. We don't have such an arrangement just a job lot run by Mowbrays mate who he saved from the scrapeheap. Mowbray being the Senior Partner in that scam.

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14 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I would certainly ask questions about Mowbrays handling of him but I think its incredibly harsh to suggest that hes had the ability beaten out of him. Prior to joining the signing was very much a low risk gamble of a youngish player who had not really exerted himself as someone who had that end product even at League 1 level. After a couple of years of defensive wingers and wide strikers Rothwell broke through last year, running at players, scored a couple of screamers and I do think in hindsight it was a bit of a false dawn.

It got pulled away from him. He was looking the dog's bollocks for a patch but couldn't break into the team for some bizarre reason. Now he is looking just bollocks and gets in no problem. Weird.

You have to play players when they're in form. Maybe it would have just been a purple patch, maybe it would have been the catalyst, who knows now.

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He's a fearless young player with a bit of drive. That gets drummed out if them in favour of becoming a water carrier. It's the way these days in this league.

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1 hour ago, tomphil said:

He's a fearless young player with a bit of drive. That gets drummed out if them in favour of becoming a water carrier. It's the way these days in this league.

He’s the same as any other player tomphil. They have a job to do and a function within the team to fulfill in order to benefit the whole team. If he can’t do that he won’t ever advance himself in the game. That’s what’s happening. 

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7 minutes ago, den said:

He’s the same as any other player tomphil. They have a job to do and a function within the team to fulfill in order to benefit the whole team. If he can’t do that he won’t ever advance himself in the game. That’s what’s happening. 

Certain managers get hold of a talent and harness it others immediately try and take the edges off but sometimes it's the edges that make that player a bit different.

We've seen it all before both sides of the coin.

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55 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Certain managers get hold of a talent and harness it others immediately try and take the edges off but sometimes it's the edges that make that player a bit different.

We've seen it all before both sides of the coin.

Rothwell hasn’t had the edge taken off, he’s just never really had it. Yes he has ability but hasn’t yet applied it with any consistency and that’s no good to anyone.

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28 minutes ago, den said:

Rothwell hasn’t had the edge taken off, he’s just never really had it. Yes he has ability but hasn’t yet applied it with any consistency and that’s no good to anyone.

I thought we were on about Travis ?

I want to see him become the all action dynamic midfielder he looks capable of not be turned into the next Lowe.

I agree on Rothwell i don't think this level suits him at all but on the subject of both players i want to see manager and coaches up off the bench encouraging and hollering at them to do the things they do well.  

Souness was good at that sort of thing.

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On 05/07/2020 at 12:47, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

To be honest when did we last look like we actually wanted to be out there ? When did we last look like a team that enjoys playing football ?

True and that leads to so many games where it's turgid to watch. 

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I do acknowledge (and share) the disappointment & frustration felt by all, but for a bit more objectivity with regards to Saturday, my Leeds-mad workmate said this about the match:

"I enjoyed the game on Saturday. Had you taken your chances (and had a bit of luck) following our opening goal I think it would have been much closer"

When I told him most on here feel our performance was abject / pitiful / spineless, he replied:

"I didn't think it was a rubbish performance from Blackburn, there wasn't much in it. We were just more clinical on the day."

Obviously there are common threads in our recent defeats - namely missed chances & individual errors - but to describe those performances overall as abject, pitiful or spineless is, I think, overly critical.

 

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Competed until they went 3-1, heads dropped and we couldn’t get near them after that, would be my view.

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Missed chances and individual errors occur in every football match on the planet.

They are not ours alone.

It is how a team reacts to them that define a team and their manager and coaches.

We don't do it very well.

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