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Summer Transfer Window

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7 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Without being too much of a contrarian I would argue that having a few games at left back would give a would be attacking player some knowledge of the pluses and minuses of what playing at full back entails. If the lad has football intelligence a short spell there won't have been wasted and he may use what he has learnt to his advantage.

Just like Giggsy, he played left back to get used to football 😂😂😂😂

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8 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Without being too much of a contrarian I would argue that having a few games at left back would give a would be attacking player some knowledge of the pluses and minuses of what playing at full back entails. If the lad has football intelligence a short spell there won't have been wasted and he may use what he has learnt to his advantage.

Of course but we obviously know with senior players that Mowbray likes a player who can play in different positions but especially given our troubles in wide areas, I would like to see him played there next to see how he is capable of impacting games with goals and assists.

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Posted (edited)

It's not that I believe @roversfan99 and other posters are being incredibly over the top in their criticisms of Joe Rankin-Costello, it's that I feel certain youth players get a harder time than others and I don't really get it. I think you're right that it can't be about home grown status, as John Buckley is even more so scrutinised and he has been at the club since a very young age. 

I don't know whether its positional really. Travis and Wharton are in defensive positions where its much harder to quantify the ability they are brining to the side, and is quite easy to under or over state their abilities. With attacking based players, people judge them on their goals and assists way too heavily and I feel that maybe there is a pressure there.

The original criticism against Rankin-Costello is that he doesn't have the attacking potency, but that is an unsubstantiated claim, as he IS an attacking player. 100% I believe he has been victim to playing out of position.

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

how he is capable of impacting games with goals and assists.

You see here, this kind of comment backs up my thoughts on this. Defensive players are judged on all sorts of things, their running, positioning, tracking back, interceptions, finding a pass.

With attacking players its, how many goals does he have? We never turn around and say okay let's judge Defender A solely on how many we've conceded as a team, I wish that our attacking youth players could be judged on ALL of their playing merits just like certain others.

I don't think anyone has been particularly harsh on JRC, I just think people are lenient with others and seem to have an unexplainable bias that I can't quite fathom.

Edited by JoeH

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Given his contract situation, if we could get 1.5m-2m for nyambe, jrc could go to RB? he would provide more of an attacking threat

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4 minutes ago, alex l said:

Given his contract situation, if we could get 1.5m-2m for nyambe, jrc could go to RB? he would provide more of an attacking threat

Instead of Captain Marvel? Give your head a wobble 

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7 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Instead of Captain Marvel? Give your head a wobble 

For all the stick TM gets for his loyalty to Bennett, I'm sure there was a long period when Nyambe was RB and Bennett was benched. 

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Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Instead of Captain Marvel? Give your head a wobble 

Would we get £1.5m -£2m for Captain Marvel?

It is downright distressing that we're talking about playing players in their proper position or if returning loans are good enough to make the first team rather than who to bring in to make us stronger, given our budget. Actually, knowing that there is a budget to bring in players would be a good start for the club to announce that there is one.We all suspect we have to sell before we can bring anyone in,but that's not been announced,either. Other clubs do it, but not us.

Another tranche of the Brereton transfer is now due out to Forest.If we don't pay, he revert to being a Forest player, saving us £3m, which could be used to fund the transfer of Neil Etheridge. It's not ethical business, but then, Brereton hasn't exactly played as advertised, now has he?

 

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Just now, Richard Oakley said:

Would we get £1.5m -£2m for Captain Marvel?

It is downright distressing that we're talking about playing players in their proper position or if returning loans are good enough to make the first team rather than who to bring in to make us stronger, given our budget. Actually, knowing that there is a budget to bring in players would be a good start for the club to announce that there is one.We all suspect we have to sell before we can bring anyone in,but that's not been announced,either. Other clubs do it, but not us.

Another tranche of the Brereton transfer is now due out to Forest.If we don't pay, he revert to being a Forest player, saving us £3m, which could be used to fund the transfer of Neil Etheridge. It's not ethical business, but then, Brereton hasn't exactly played as advertised, now has he?

 

bit like not repaying your car finance cos the car turned out to be slow,unresponsive and frequently would not start😊

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Has any of this criticism of JRC been really over the top? I can’t say I agree. I suppose it depends on interpretations of over the top....

But for me- over the top criticism would be posts like- ‘he’s useless’, he’ll never be a professional’ ‘he hasn’t shown any quality so far’. Etc, etc. 
I am happy to be corrected if I’m wrong, but I’ve seen none of the above attributed to JRC at all on here. 

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4 hours ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

Jesus you only started supporting us when we had Dann & Hanley?! You poor fucker 

Texan... our son was a student at U. of Reading at the time, I didn’t become a fan until age 50. 

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It’s really disheartening to see so many fans writing off so many of our academy products, and as @JoeH picked up on its also bizarre in its inconsistency. They seem to be able to do no wrong, or they are shit in the eyes of many. They get it badly wrong at times too... the one homegrown player to win the league with us got crucified throughout the decade he played in the first team.

As a vocal detractor of the current regime, seeing a really talented crop of youngsters coming through is something I could really get behind, and really excites me. I’d love to see the likes of Buckley, Rankin-Costello and Vale become mainstays of our team, and I’d much rather them get ample game time to be given the opportunity to flourish.

I really hope we use all available finance to strengthen in the areas we really need to, ie. Goalkeeper, and not waste wages on loaning players who’ve come through from premier league teams with no hope of breaking in their first teams, or ageing pros who’s best days are long behind them. We have a lot of depth with these young lads. None of them are mugs, and they will only realise their potential by playing.

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1 hour ago, Mike E said:

My footy coach made me a much better defender by sticking me in goal for a few games.

I knew what my keeper needed from me after that.

Similarly JRC could learn where best to meet cross-field balls, or the impact on LB of his natural position losing possession etc. Plenty to learn.

Yes I agree. I played in every position on the pitch at some point. Even one game in goal - and one game as the ref.  The less said about my refereeing the better. Playing briefly as a centre forward taught what service suited strikers best and how hard it was to play with your back to goal.

I remember going for a town team trial once and we all lined up out in the pitch. Me and another lad both lined up in the left back spot, but there was a gap in the right centre half position. The coach organising the trial said to me  - You, move across to the right, you're playing centre half today ". When I said I'd never really played there much  he replied " Get over, a good player can play anywhere ".

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and they will only realise their potential by playing.

i agree,though mowbray will see it different and play them out of position or not at all,i have zero confidence in him getting the best out of any young player,it will be very interesting to see what he does with butterworth,who for me would be a direct replacement and upgrade on the departed samuel,would be typical mowbray tactics to shunt him out wide and ruin him

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Posted (edited)

Miller - Example of who’s said ‘they’re shit’ and who’s ‘written off’ JRC or Buckley. Would be quite ridiculous, but I don’t recall ever reading it, merely stuff like Buckley needs to ‘bulk up’ ‘toughen up’ etc and JRC hasn’t blown anyone away so far, but with the caveat he’s been slotted in in various positions.  

Whilst Nyambe, Travis and Lenihan are seen as pivotal men.

Which is all fair enough and obviously isn’t knocking our vital Academy one iota.

(Oh and if we are talking about ‘writing off’, Joe’s comments about Wharton are probably closer to doing that than anything I’ve read about Buckley or JRC, which seems unfair for a lad that’s paid his dues on loan and done well, though that’s still an opinion with some merit for a lad who’s never played out of L1/L2 and is 22 pushing 23. Never black and white, is it...)
 

 

 

Edited by Mattyblue

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11 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

 

I remember going for a town team trial once and we all lined up out in the pitch. Me and another lad both lined up in the left back spot, but there was a gap in the right centre half position. The coach organising the trial said to me  - You, move across to the right, you're playing centre half today ". When I said I'd never really played there much  he replied " Get over, a good player can play anywhere ".

Did you get in?

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Posted (edited)

Academy players get a lot more leeway from fans on here that's for certain. If Williams had put in performances in like Carter did he would have been slaughtered. If Johnson had given the ball away like Travis did for one of Leeds and Reading's goals he'd have been hammered. If Bell had defended like JRC did at times he'd have taken plenty of flack.  As it was none of them got much stick at all on here.

Edited by Ewood Ace

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30 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

and they will only realise their potential by playing.

i agree,though mowbray will see it different and play them out of position or not at all,i have zero confidence in him getting the best out of any young player,it will be very interesting to see what he does with butterworth,who for me would be a direct replacement and upgrade on the departed samuel,would be typical mowbray tactics to shunt him out wide and ruin him

With what little I've seen of Butterworth I'm sure TM will see his attributes as suiting the flank. And as usual it probably won't work.

Butterworth has struck me as a little similar to Rothwell perhaps.

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11 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

If Bell had defended like JRC did at times he'd have taken plenty of flack. 

Agree completely with your post besides this sentance. When you re-watch JRC and Bell's games as left-backs, positionally I don't think there's even a debate about who is better defensively. I think Bell is consistently having to sprint back to cover his position that's been left wide open, and I thought we saw that a lot less with Rankin-Costello in that position.

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1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

You can’t fathom it because nobody is ‘biased’ against Joe Rankin Costello, they just have a different view on his effectiveness thus far, game of opinions and all that.

When compared with posters opinions on Scott Wharton, people are 100% biased, and I can't fathom the reason for why. I am completely open to a different view, I am not open to randomly opposing and confusing views about players with similar experiences in our first team.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, JoeH said:

When compared with posters opinions on Scott Wharton, people are 100% biased, and I can't fathom the reason for why. I am completely open to a different view, I am not open to randomly opposing and confusing views about players with similar experiences in our first team.

I think it might be desperation for decent defenders, whereas we're relatively spoilt by comparison in the attacking half of the pitch? Dack, Holtby, Rothwell, Armstrong, Chapman, all capable already in that 'wide forward' area.

Admittedly we're a bit sparse in JRC's natural wing position too, but don't tend to play proper wingers anyway? He's possibly also getting unconscious comparisons to the last attacking academy product: Hoilett, who was a real breath of fresh air.

Reckon JRC just needs to be played at RW, opposite Chapman at LW and see what they have. Dack in between, with Gallagher ahead of them with strict targetman instructions could be potent.

Have Buckley and Travis sat in midfield, maybe.

Edited by Mike E

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14 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Agree completely with your post besides this sentance. When you re-watch JRC and Bell's games as left-backs, positionally I don't think there's even a debate about who is better defensively. I think Bell is consistently having to sprint back to cover his position that's been left wide open, and I thought we saw that a lot less with Rankin-Costello in that position.

Out of position and didn't get back in for West Brom's goal, let the Wigan player come inside and get his strike away for their second goal. Now get me wrong I think JRC did decently considering he was playing out of position but if that was Bell for those goals he would have rightly been heavily criticised. 

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26 minutes ago, JoeH said:

When compared with posters opinions on Scott Wharton, people are 100% biased, and I can't fathom the reason for why. I am completely open to a different view, I am not open to randomly opposing and confusing views about players with similar experiences in our first team.

Why would someone be biased against him? It makes no sense, especially as any criticism has been very mild. You are trying to find something that just isn’t there. I suppose it’s easy to blame ‘bias’ when you can’t understand why someone has a view against a player you personally rate highly, but that’s football fans.

Wharton has been written off by some on here, and you yourself think he won’t make it  - that’s harsher than any criticism of JRC, so are they/you biased against Wharton? Of course not, it’s just opinion.  

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1 hour ago, alex l said:

Given his contract situation, if we could get 1.5m-2m for nyambe, jrc could go to RB? he would provide more of an attacking threat

Nyambe does provide an attacking threat. What he doesn’t provide is end product. He needs to Practice crossing from 30yards across the six yard box for our two strikers to attack.

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1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

Of course not, it’s just opinion. 

The whole point is that people should be as harsh on Wharton as they are on JRC. Simple really. I don't think both players are being judged in the same parameters and I find it confusing. 

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