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Summer Transfer Window

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2 hours ago, JoeH said:

I am confused. If we have met with Ben Whiteman and said would you come but not put in a formal bid, we've acted against the rules and "tapped up" the lad....

Might not be totally within the spirit of the rules, but conversations like this happen all the time throughout the game.

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4 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Might not be totally within the spirit of the rules, but conversations like this happen all the time throughout the game.

e.g. Dalglish meeting Roy Keane at David O'Leary's house, when the psycho was still a Forest player!

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4 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Of course there’s money!! There always is with Venkys.

My worry, based on what I’ve heard and now the Whiteman update is that we’re scratching around for two keepers on loan and a freebie defence just so we can pay Whitemans fee 🙈

So yet again defence is neglected at the expense of other areas...and we wonder why we ship goals..

There should only be one priority at Ewood -strengtgen the defence/keeper.  We have reasonable academy cover in other areas of the pitch  but nobody stands out in defence - especially full back areas. 

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Here are keeper stats from the guys from Rovers chat who did possible goalkeeper options. I asked if they do them for Daniel Iversen and Muric..here are those stats..

 

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1 hour ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Our midfield is poor, especially if we want to play any sort of possession game

The suggestion that Travis and Evans are poor on the ball is statistically incorrect when compared with the other teams in our division and the midfield duo's we've had at the club in recent CH seasons. 

Jason Lowe and Danny Guthrie are significantly worse than Lewis Travis and Bradley Johnson, yet had nearly 10% more possession in that 2016 side than our current side.

We average just 44% possession in 2020, yet four years ago, with the likes of Lowe in the side, we averaged 52%. I think that's very telling. Passive possession means nothing, in terms of attacking possession we are now in 2020 much superior. Key passes, positive "through" balls, forward dribbles and shots on target are all well up from 2016/17.

1244773976_RoversHistoricalChampionshipData(1).thumb.png.19b07e5bf78064eb6cb299e81f9b4681.png

You see it's not really about basic possession. If we wanted to have 51% possession we'd have to revert to playing around the back like we did with those crap players in the side. It's actually about "positive" possession (hard to describe). The data shows that our points, win% and goals scored are all significantly up, with much less possession of the ball, because we get the ball forward much faster now.

I don't believe when Mowbray talks about dominating the ball he really means let's get the possession metric up, I think he means being much more potent with the ball in the final third. Playing in and around their box, toying with other teams like your West Brom and Leeds United's of the world.

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5 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Maybe the CB’s already sorted Chaddy...

Maybe so. If Adarabioyo deal is sorted and maybe we have sign a foriegn free agent for the long term already or close to being done

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Is there? To be honest, id be pleasantly surprised if theyd even got the budget sorted yet. This idea that we are so active at the moment in the market is almost certaintly inaccurate.

I dont think theres a cat in hells chance of us spending a couple of million on Whiteman.

If we was to follow the scenario you think will happen and loaned in a kid in net whilst spending a couple of million I am sure I wouldnt be alone in being fuming.

Id be amazed if we spent 7 figures in this window without a big sale.

Sadly dont see that happening at all but again id be fuming that we didnt spend that money on a goalkeper.

It wouldnt take much for you to be fuming would it? 

A 22 year old isnt a kid is it?.

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

A 22 year old isnt a kid is it?.

In net I think recent history should teach us that anyone Aged 24 and below isn't fully formed. We've had young keepers who've all been poor for us. Jake Kean, David Raya (it's a debate but the data is there), Christian Walton.

We really would just be better off with David Marshall. He's got at least two more seasons in him and Fisher gets a few more years to develop into the keeper he looks like he could be. But the key word is could.

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Just now, JoeH said:

The suggestion that Travis and Evans are poor on the ball is statistically incorrect when compared with the other teams in our division and the midfield duo's we've had at the club in recent CH seasons. 

Jason Lowe and Danny Guthrie are significantly worse than Lewis Travis and Bradley Johnson, yet had nearly 10% more possession in that 2016 side than our current side.

We average just 44% possession in 2020, yet four years ago, with the likes of Lowe in the side, we averaged 52%. I think that's very telling. Passive possession means nothing, in terms of attacking possession we are now in 2020 much superior. Key passes, positive "through" balls, forward dribbles and shots on target are all well up from 2016/17.

1244773976_RoversHistoricalChampionshipData(1).thumb.png.19b07e5bf78064eb6cb299e81f9b4681.png

You see it's not really about basic possession. If we wanted to have 51% possession we'd have to revert to playing around the back like we did with those crap players in the side. It's actually about "positive" possession (hard to describe). The data shows that our points, win% and goals scored are all significantly up, with much less possession of the ball, because we get the ball forward much faster now.

I don't believe when Mowbray talks about dominating the ball he really means let's get the possession metric up, I think he means being much more potent with the ball in the final third. Playing in and around their box, toying with other teams like your West Brom and Leeds United's of the world.

Who said "there are lies, damn lies and statistics"? 

Prefer to believe what I see with my own eyes tbh. 

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Just now, Tugayisgod said:

Prefer to believe what I see with my own eyes tbh. 

So you reckon:

Jason Lowe and Danny Guthrie > Lewis Travis and Bradley Johnson?

I can find a link to Specsavers and post it for you ;)

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Just now, JoeH said:

In net I think recent history should teach us that anyone Aged 24 and below isn't fully formed. We've had young keepers who've all been poor for us. Jake Kean, David Raya (it's a debate but the data is there), Christian Walton.

We really would just be better off with David Marshall. He's got at least two more seasons in him and Fisher gets a few more years to develop into the keeper he looks like he could be. But the key word is could.

I don't know how you can Say Marshall has 2 more seasons in him. Hes 35 years old. I would prefer Philips from Charlton or as Rovers chat suggested Kevin Muller as a possible target. But if we need to go loan route due to budget reasons. 

Fisher isn't good enough. He goes on loan and never plays whilst other keepers go on loan and play like Iversen, Sanchez, etc..

Hilton is a much better prospect imo. 

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I don't know how you can Say Marshall has 2 more seasons in him. Hes 35 years old. I would prefer Philips from Charlton or as Rovers chat suggested Kevin Muller as a possible target. But if we need to go loan route due to budget reasons. 

Fisher isn't good enough. He goes on loan and never plays whilst other keepers go on loan and play like Iversen, Sanchez, etc..

Hilton is a much better prospect imo. 

I say Marshall has a few more seasons in him because I catch a lot of Wigan games, I'm from the area and speak to people. He still has it. He was great vs Rovers this season and 35 isn't actually that old for a goalkeeper. He has the Championship experience at both ends of the table and would provide some calm at the back. He might not be as good a shot stopper as Raya, or as tall as Walton, but he has something that we haven't seen in a keeper since Paul Robinson or Brad Friedel, a bit of bollocks. 

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Just now, JoeH said:

The suggestion that Travis and Evans are poor on the ball is statistically incorrect when compared with the other teams in our division and the midfield duo's we've had at the club in recent CH seasons. 

Jason Lowe and Danny Guthrie are significantly worse than Lewis Travis and Bradley Johnson, yet had nearly 10% more possession in that 2016 side than our current side.

We average just 44% possession in 2020, yet four years ago, with the likes of Lowe in the side, we averaged 52%. I think that's very telling. Passive possession means nothing, in terms of attacking possession we are now in 2020 much superior. Key passes, positive "through" balls, forward dribbles and shots on target are all well up from 2016/17.

1244773976_RoversHistoricalChampionshipData(1).thumb.png.19b07e5bf78064eb6cb299e81f9b4681.png

You see it's not really about basic possession. If we wanted to have 51% possession we'd have to revert to playing around the back like we did with those crap players in the side. It's actually about "positive" possession (hard to describe). The data shows that our points, win% and goals scored are all significantly up, with much less possession of the ball, because we get the ball forward much faster now.

I don't believe when Mowbray talks about dominating the ball he really means let's get the possession metric up, I think he means being much more potent with the ball in the final third. Playing in and around their box, toying with other teams like your West Brom and Leeds United's of the world.

Is that right? Surely not, just had a quick look and our possession stat seems to be showing at 53.1%, where is 44% from?

To be honest, I can see without the need for stats that players like Travis, Evans and Downing in the middle are all competent on the ball, a massive upgrade on the dregs you mention earlier, but probably arent capable of dominating games week in week out. To be totally dedicated on controlling games week in and week out would be a bit naive from Mowbray. I think we could potentially play a pressing game with the young players we have in attacking positions.

The stats also dont highlight how much of an anomaly Johnson is. He is dismal on the half turn and basically everytime he receives it in front of the back 4, he gets robbed of the ball, so he can never play should we want to dominate games. He cant sit in front of the back 4.

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Maybe so. If Adarabioyo deal is sorted and maybe we have sign a foriegn free agent for the long term already or close to being done

It wouldnt take much for you to be fuming would it? 

A 22 year old isnt a kid is it?.

Whereas it doesnt take much for your delusions to take over and seemingly think that everything is hunky dory.

A 22 year old goalkeeper with minimal experience is very much a kid in footballing terms. 

The thing is, this isnt me being negative because its mere speculation that indicates that we will get another kid on loan to be in net. We dont even know either way. I just dont want one for pretty constructive reasons whereas if we signed Jason Steele back on loan youd be on here telling everyone how he has experience, he knows the club and is a very good signing.

Out of interest, as its not a situation I see as remotely possible. But we get a kid (or 22-24 year old if you are going to be pedantic, lets say that Muric) on loan in net and spend 2m on Whiteman. Happy with the 2 signings, or annoyed that we have spent the money on an non urgent area and put another plaster on the area where we have no one?

If there is any money, which I doubt, it has to go in goal or at centre back. We do not need a raw kid on loan in net!

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2 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I say Marshall has a few more seasons in him because I catch a lot of Wigan games, I'm from the area and speak to people. He still has it. He was great vs Rovers this season and 35 isn't actually that old for a goalkeeper. He has the Championship experience at both ends of the table and would provide some calm at the back. He might not be as good a shot stopper as Raya, or as tall as Walton, but he has something that we haven't seen in a keeper since Paul Robinson or Brad Friedel, a bit of bollocks. 

If he isnt a good shot stopper Marshall why do we want him? 

Phillips or Muller would be ideal for a cash buy solution to the keeper problem. 

 

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

If he isnt a good shot stopper Marshall why do we want him? 

 

I didn't say that. I said he "may" not be as good as Raya, a keeper who's main trait is shot stopping.

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Just now, roversfan99 said:

To be totally dedicated on controlling games week in and week out would be a bit naive from Mowbray.

Agreed.

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Is that right?

To the best of my knowledge yes. https://footystats.org/clubs/england/blackburn-rovers-fc is where I got a lot of the data from on this. Down near the bottom. Some sites are very inaccurate on possession but this is a detailed and usually reliable source.

Just now, roversfan99 said:

If there is any money, which I doubt, it has to go in goal or at centre back. We do not need a raw kid on loan in net!

Agreed.

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The midfield and it's options are a country mile better than anything containing Lowe & Guthrie.  Also a lot better than Willowe or Lowe & Evans, Bowyers achilies heel.

It's the turning possession into positive possession or dominant possession i'm struggling to see on match days. Only seems to work against certain teams. Moving it quickly and aggressively back to front without the hoof is something that still needs a lot of work.

For that imo we still some some pace and delivery not strikers out wide, also it has to be built from a solid back 4 and keeper. If we really are to transition into something like that the recruitment needs to be better than its been since the promotion season. 

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31 minutes ago, JoeH said:

So you reckon:

Jason Lowe and Danny Guthrie > Lewis Travis and Bradley Johnson?

I can find a link to Specsavers and post it for you ;)

No, having watched all 4 players I would much rather have Travis and Johnson than the other 2. Why, do you disagree? 

Don't need stats to tell me that

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4 minutes ago, Tugayisgod said:

No, having watched all 4 players I would much rather have Travis and Johnson than the other 2. Why, do you disagree? 

Don't need stats to tell me that

Travis is the only one I care about. The other three are basically irrelevant. 

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52 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Maybe so. If Adarabioyo deal is sorted and maybe we have sign a foriegn free agent for the long term already or close to being done

It wouldnt take much for you to be fuming would it? 

A 22 year old isnt a kid is it?.

A 22 year old didn't used to be a kid but it can be today. 

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So do I. I was just talking about comparing them as a midfield pairing, and I would have Johnson over the other 2.

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Posted (edited)

Another day has passed since the season finished and we are therefore another day closer to pre season and the new season.

Feels like there is nothing to hold on to where Rovers are concerned. 

IMO, no discernible cause for hope and optimism.

We have a manager who seemingly says, at best, he's unclear about his budget for player trading.                              

Other clubs are selling ST's by the thousand and, seemingly, we haven't a feckin clue what to do.

I think it's a total shambles and the fans are being treated like muppets.  

I think the fans deserve much, much better.

If these are your best endeavours Waggott and Mowbray then I think it's time you both left the building.

Edited by Mercer

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21 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Whereas it doesnt take much for your delusions to take over and seemingly think that everything is hunky dory.

A 22 year old goalkeeper with minimal experience is very much a kid in footballing terms. 

The thing is, this isnt me being negative because its mere speculation that indicates that we will get another kid on loan to be in net. We dont even know either way. I just dont want one for pretty constructive reasons whereas if we signed Jason Steele back on loan youd be on here telling everyone how he has experience, he knows the club and is a very good signing.

Out of interest, as its not a situation I see as remotely possible. But we get a kid (or 22-24 year old if you are going to be pedantic, lets say that Muric) on loan in net and spend 2m on Whiteman. Happy with the 2 signings, or annoyed that we have spent the money on an non urgent area and put another plaster on the area where we have no one?

If there is any money, which I doubt, it has to go in goal or at centre back. We do not need a raw kid on loan in net!

I haven't said everything is hunky dory tho have I? You see what you want to see again. 

22 year old(Iversen) with 2 season of playing 1st team football as a keeper instead of our own Andrew Fisher who has barely played any 1st team football like last season which he played zero league games which one would you prefer?. I suggested Dillon Philips would be ideal but without knowing the budget and thats we need a centre back and left back for the 1st eleven of the team. So you have to weigh up your options as Josh's post last week pointed to that and Mowbray has also said in the past. 

and Jason Steele was poor here so why would we bring in back for? 

Well you can all judge them when they arrived here and play in a blue and white shite surely? I don't know much on Whiteman at all. Only what Sparks has said about the type of player he is. Muric just what I seen for his team he played for. Just imagined his that situation did happen tho? 

who knows what money there is but at least some posters with connects are sharing their info with the board. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

A 22 year old didn't used to be a kid but it can be today. 

It's different strokes. Mainly based on talent, I think. 

You have a lad like Mbappe who was playing at an insanely high level at 18.

Then you have lads who don't get a proper chance with a first team until they're 21+. 

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Just now, Mercer said:

Another day has passed since the season finished and we are therefore another day closer to pre season and the new season.

Feels like there is nothing to hold on to where Rovers are concerned. 

IMO, no discernible cause for hope and optimism.

We have a manager who seemingly says, at best, he's unclear about his budget for player trading.                              

Other clubs are selling ST's by the thousand and, seemingly, we haven't a feckin clue what to do.

I think it's a total shambles and the fans are being treated like muppets.  

I think the fans deserve much, much better.

If these are your best endeavours Waggott and Mowbray then I think it's time you both left the building.

how can you sell Season tickets when we don't know if we even been allowed in stadium all season or even at all. 

Why does the manager have to tell us what the budget is? 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

how can you sell Season tickets when we don't know if we even been allowed in stadium all season or even at all.  Other clubs are.  Have we no imagination?  There are attractive options - sadly, I think Ewood is an inspiration and nous free zone.

Why does the manager have to tell us what the budget is?  He doesn't.  At the very least, he (and Waggott) should level with us in general terms ie 'we have a working budget that we believe will enable us to strengthen the team and move the club forward' or, 'there are financial restraints we now have to operate in and our options are limited'.  The fans both deserve and need to know.  Not telling the fans anything, or possibly even misleading them, is crass management.

 

Edited by Mercer

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