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Summer Transfer Window

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12 months ago Mowbray signed Cunningham on loan because Bell was not good enough. I just cant think of a scenario in which he leaves us with only Bell for this season.

The Only question in my head is who is Mowbray going to sign (and when)

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1 hour ago, unleaded said:

Hart was signed for a undisclosed fee and it took the management 3 long years and a few loan returns from clubs not interested in him to figure out he's not up to the standard .....

Its amazing what goes on  these so called recruitment meetings ... still doesn’t beat J Lowe Story ......

But hardly the end of the world given how much he actually cost us?

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11 minutes ago, skous18 said:

12 months ago Mowbray signed Cunningham on loan because Bell was not good enough. I just cant think of a scenario in which he leaves us with only Bell for this season.

The Only question in my head is who is Mowbray going to sign (and when)

Cunningham is absolutely better than Bell, I'm stating that first before anyone jumps onto this one, but genuinely I think Greg Cunningham would be fairly below average in Mowbray's current system. Our attacking full backs need pace to get up and down and Greg is a much more traditional defensive full back. He'd be better than Amari'i, sure, but not a million miles better under the current tactical system

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40 minutes ago, LDRover said:

Place where I work turns over in excess of 200 million p/a, our CEO is on far less than Waggott.

When it comes to football normal rules don't apply.  Gareth Bale £600K a week = Madness.

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2 minutes ago, JoeH said:

But hardly the end of the world given how much he actually cost us?

But if you believe the guilt tripping of supporters from Waggott then the decision to give him an extended contract when he was never going to play could help to play a part in ending the club.

Edited by Ewood Ace

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1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

£320k pa isnt a ‘big salary’ for the CEO of an organisation turning over £15-20m a year. The expectation of that role and scale more than justifies the number.

This is incorrect.
Rovers really are not a big ‘company’ in terms of turnover (perhaps in terms of the public eye they are) and £320k is a large CEO base salary.

Mercer hit the nail on the head regards dividends, shares, bonuses etc. This is how most CEOs contracts are structured. Some incentive to improving performance  

Lets be frank, he is grossly overpaid and it is not justified at all. 

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1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

£320k pa isnt a ‘big salary’ for the CEO of an organisation turning over £15-20m a year. The expectation of that role and scale more than justifies the number.

It is for a company alienating it’s customers, losing money and in debt ten times its turnover and getting worse each year.

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1 minute ago, JoeH said:

Cunningham is absolutely better than Bell, I'm stating that first before anyone jumps onto this one, but genuinely I think Greg Cunningham would be fairly below average in Mowbray's current system. Our attacking full backs need pace to get up and down and Greg is a much more traditional defensive full back. He'd be better than Amari'i, sure, but not a million miles better under the current tactical system

Cunningham is good going forward and also technically good, has a good cross on him too. Bell is just as bad going forward as he is at defending, I dont think hes ever assisted a goal in god knows how many Championship games, on the rare occasions when he gets near the opposition box without turning back, he spoons his cross well over the bar.

Of course, Cunningham can also defend very well which has to be the main priority from a full back. He would be ideal because it would mean that both full backs can defend because if we leave it down to our 2 centre backs, we will concede regardless of how good a signing Ayala proves to be.

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21 minutes ago, superniko said:

This is incorrect.
Rovers really are not a big ‘company’ in terms of turnover (perhaps in terms of the public eye they are) and £320k is a large CEO base salary.

Mercer hit the nail on the head regards dividends, shares, bonuses etc. This is how most CEOs contracts are structured. Some incentive to improving performance  

Lets be frank, he is grossly overpaid and it is not justified at all. 

As of last season, it seems it's a bang average championship CEO wage... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8262315/Physios-191-000-kit-men-56-000-Crazy-wages-dont-add-EFL-clubs-brink.html well, just shy of 5k over... £295,179. Providing you believe the Nazi Digest anyway.

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300k is a lot for a club our size and we didn't get him from a Prem club did we he's been around the lower leagues mostly.

End of the day 30 thousand is a lot if you don't justify it although i don't envy his job recently.

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57 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Cunningham is good going forward and also technically good, has a good cross on him too. Bell is just as bad going forward as he is at defending, I dont think hes ever assisted a goal in god knows how many Championship games, on the rare occasions when he gets near the opposition box without turning back, he spoons his cross well over the bar.

Of course, Cunningham can also defend very well which has to be the main priority from a full back. He would be ideal because it would mean that both full backs can defend because if we leave it down to our 2 centre backs, we will concede regardless of how good a signing Ayala proves to be.

Cunningham doesn't have the legs or the pace to play in the attacking full back role and be Top 6 quality. As a defensive left-back who goes forward every now and again, he's great. Either way, better than Bell

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1 hour ago, Mercer said:

Think you are way off the mark.

You would be surprised at relative salary levels (to Waggott's) for CEO's in 'large' companies and Rovers would not fall into that category.

The big bucks come in terms of what is known as 'executive compensation' comprising share options (typically 3 to 5 times salary levels), long term incentive plans (typically shares given to CEO's if their companies perform and meet their KPI's over a number of years - 1 to 2 times salary levels) and annual bonus (again performance related and typically 50% to 100% of base salary).

IMO, based on experience, Waggott's base salary is at least twice as much as it needs to be.  If I was calling the shots, he would be heavily incentivised to deliver on strategic objectives.

For perspective, our PM runs the UK and his salary is about £150k.  Waggott, IMO, is ridiculously overpaid.

You were doing so well until you used the PM for ‘perspective’ a position that pays such a low salary as a signifier of spending the tax payers money. This is the exception to the rule.

I actually like your ideology around incentivised pay but how do you know the £319k isn’t based on salary and bonus?

Other than that, I can’t accept that £320k is excessive for a CEO running a £20m turnover business with 150ish staff? In fact I read an article on average wages in the championship during lockdown which stated the AVERAGE Chairman / CEO in the Championship earns £300k.

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1 minute ago, JoeH said:

Cunningham doesn't have the legs or the pace to play in the attacking full back role and be Top 6 quality. As a defensive left-back who goes forward every now and again, he's great. Either way, better than Bell

I agree Joe. With this system we need more dynamism than Cunningham. Though he’d still be a mahooosive upgrade on Bell.

Any names flying about lads?

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Just now, Paul Mani said:

You were doing so well until you used the PM for ‘perspective’ a position that pays such a low salary as a signifier of spending the tax payers money. This is the exception to the rule.

I actually like your ideology around incentivised pay but how do you know the £319k isn’t based on salary and bonus?

Other than that, I can’t accept that £320k is excessive for a CEO running a £20m turnover business with 150ish staff? In fact I read an article on average wages in the championship during lockdown which stated the AVERAGE Chairman / CEO in the Championship earns £300k.

If it was based on salary and bonus, it would only be expenditure in the acccounts if the bonus was achieved. We failed to meet season ticket sales and failed to hit the (perhaps ambitious) pre season target of a top 6 finish, so how would he have hit any targets? 

Ultimately, he isnt proving value for money with his work at the club so far.

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1 hour ago, Stuart said:

It is for a company alienating it’s customers, losing money and in debt ten times its turnover and getting worse each year.

It’s just the going rate it would seem Stuart...and let’s have it right most teams in there are losing money hand over fist.

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Just now, roversfan99 said:

If it was based on salary and bonus, it would only be expenditure in the acccounts if the bonus was achieved. We failed to meet season ticket sales and failed to hit the (perhaps ambitious) pre season target of a top 6 finish, so how would he have hit any targets? 

Ultimately, he isnt proving value for money with his work at the club so far.

Whether he’s good enough is a separate argument. My point was that £300k a year is pretty much par for the course.

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4 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Cunningham doesn't have the legs or the pace to play in the attacking full back role and be Top 6 quality. As a defensive left-back who goes forward every now and again, he's great. Either way, better than Bell

I would have to disagree, I thought he was good going forward, you dont need to be really quick, he played Rankin Costello there last week and he isnt quick. Cunningham could get up and down, of course until he got his injury.

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Just now, Paul Mani said:

Whether he’s good enough is a separate argument. My point was that £300k a year is pretty much par for the course.

Absolutely. I was mainly commenting on your comments about his salary being potentially partially based on bonuses. I dont see how he could have achieved his bonuses to be paid them.

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10 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

You were doing so well until you used the PM for ‘perspective’ a position that pays such a low salary as a signifier of spending the tax payers money. This is the exception to the rule.

I actually like your ideology around incentivised pay but how do you know the £319k isn’t based on salary and bonus?

Other than that, I can’t accept that £320k is excessive for a CEO running a £20m turnover business with 150ish staff? In fact I read an article on average wages in the championship during lockdown which stated the AVERAGE Chairman / CEO in the Championship earns £300k.

Tell me what you think Waggott's key strategic objectives and KPI's are?

Personally, I'm struggling to think of anything he has delivered on other than handing Mowbray and some of the players ridiculous contracts which have cost us dearly.

I would wager substantially that Waggott's base salary is very close to £300k which, IMO and professional experience, is hugely OTT for the organisation he heads up as CEO.

Edited by Mercer

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11 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I agree Joe. With this system we need more dynamism than Cunningham. Though he’d still be a mahooosive upgrade on Bell.

Any names flying about lads?

Juklerød was mentioned the other day, he is an attacking full back.

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10 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Tell me what you think Waggott's key strategic objectives and KPI's are?

Personally, I'm struggling to think of anything he has delivered on other than handing Mowbray and some of the players ridiculous contracts which have cost us dearly.

I would wager substantially that Waggott's base salary is very close to £300k which, IMO and professional experience, is hugely OTT.

I don’t know what his kpi’s are, neither do you.

I accept that his salary is around £300kpa. Which makes sense because that is the AVERAGE salary in the Championship for a CEO and we finished mid table with the 13th biggest budget (or something similar).

Which kind of ends your theory about his salary being ‘hugely OTT’ right?.

Edited by Paul Mani

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2 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I don’t know what his kpi’s are, neither do you.

I accept that his salary is around £300kpa. Which makes sense because that is the AVERAGE salary in the Championship for a CEO. Which kind of ends your theory about his salary being ‘hugely OTT’ right?.

No it doesn't.

IMO, Waggott is not even average, in fact I think he is very, very poor.

In which case, his salary is hugely OTT.

Tell me what value you think he has added to Rovers?

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29 minutes ago, Mercer said:

No it doesn't.

IMO, Waggott is not even average, in fact I think he is very, very poor.

In which case, his salary is hugely OTT.

Tell me what value you think he has added to Rovers?

Mercer, this is a completely moot point and now you’ve shifted the argument to performance which is opinion based.

The fact is that he’s the Chairman of a mid table championship club with a mid table budget and his salary is almost bang in middle of the road for the division. It’s not a large sum of money for ‘hugely overpaid’ position. They’re paying the going rate. Whether you like him or not is of no consequence to this discussion.

Your point was to highlight this huge sum. You referenced the PM’s poultry £150k in comparison and spoke of your experience’ in business because you wanted to create a feeling that somehow £300k is a lot of money for a Championship CEO and it just isn’t. Especially when you consider the average manager earns £900k and the average player £1.5m.

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At the end of last season, the consensus on here was that we needed 6 new players. I think we lost 7?

Specifically identified were goalkeeper (2), left-back,  Centre-backs (2) and a midfielder, winger or striker, depending on you point of view.

We've got 1 keeper, an 18 year old from Preston on a free in a position not identified as required (nevertheless, hell of a good signing) and one centre-back.

The squad is very thin, especially in defence and we have 2 strikers who don't strike and one who does. Injuries and suspensions could wreck our season.

We need to pull out all the stops before deadline day and our multi-billionaire owners need to put some cash down.

If they don't, and i know they've been let down by some signings----what's the point of them?

If they don't trust those in situ to make the right decisions-----replace them.

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1 minute ago, Paul Mani said:

Especially when you consider the average manager earns £900k and the average player £1.5m.

Well you're in the know----what's the average wage at Ewood these days? I'll bet its nowhere near £1.5M.

And they wouldn't give Warnock £1M as I recall.

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