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Season Tickets 2020-21

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Not sure how they could sell season tickets at the moment - aren't most of the staff still on furlough?

With the uncertainty with regard to when supporters will actually be allowed into grounds - and that may be impacted throughout the season with local lockdowns - I can understand why they are reluctant to start selling at this moment in time.  

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Just now, Parsonblue said:

Not sure how they could sell season tickets at the moment - aren't most of the staff still on furlough?

With the uncertainty with regard to when supporters will actually be allowed into grounds - and that may be impacted throughout the season with local lockdowns - I can understand why they are reluctant to start selling at this moment in time.  

But you also must appreciate that as any other business they will be struggling for cash flow and have the rare commodity of a fan base some of whom would be willing to pay for a season ticket even without the certainty of a return date. 

Even if it meant taking a couple of staf back off furlough, the income of season tickets sold would pale those costs into insignificance.

They cant pleas poverty if they are just typically sitting on their hands.

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It's an empty debate really as we all know even when things are normal they struggle to get them out in good time. The priority at Ewood in this era is, has and always will be to kowtow to the owners first and foremost regardless of the impact it has on fans or team.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, JHRover said:

Everton have sold 30,000 season tickets for a 39,000 capacity ground. 

We have sold 0 season tickets for a 31,000 capacity ground.

Everton will have millions in the bank from that. We have nothing.

Who do we reckon knows best about running a football club? Everton or Venkys and Waggott.

The club can put tickets on sale whenever it likes. But next news is Waggott will be moaning about FFP, lack of income and rich clubs having more money than us.

Well speaking for myself i have my money ready to spend and would do so if the club was prepared to accept it. I won't be alone.

Can't have it both ways. Can't be bothered with the basics and the hassle of devising a scheme e.g. £300 for the first 20 home matches whenever they may be. Don't then moan about not having any money.

I'm presuming the 30,000 figure is correct but don't know. If correct it sums up the huge dilema for clubs, highlights the risks they run and raises questions over the overriding attitude towards supporters.  There is a clause in the Everton FAQs:

"What if the 2020/21 season is played behind closed doors?  

If games in the 2020/21 season are affected in any way, the Club will refund supporters the pro-rata value of any missed games."

There is widespread reporting stadium capacity will be limited to 17 to 30% depending on individual club circumstances.

On the face of it either two-thirds of Everton ST holders will not get to see any games or all supporters will only see one-third of games. I cannot think of a better way to totally piss off the fan base in one swoop.

The clause I quoted only covers BCD, it doesn't mention games which are played in front of a limited capacity. Everton have created a massive problem for themselves as has every club which has already sold more than 30% of its capacity.

Edited by Paul

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Posted (edited)

@chaddyroversit's not often I agree with your view but on this I think you are quite correct.

I think we can accept anyone who wants an ST at Ewood will get one. We won't sell out the probable one-third of capacity. If Rovers sell me an ST I expect it to be either for all games or to be refunded, not credited, deferred etc. for those which are BCD.

I've read Middlesbrough have taken STs off sale until it's fully understood what the ground capacity and general attendance circumstances will be. This is action for which the club should be praised. It demonstrates sound management and consideration of the consequences of selling STs before knowing how live attendance will work.

The call is for Rovers to sell STs to ease cashflow issues. I cannot for the life of me see how this makes any sense. At some point it may be necessary to refund some or all of the money raised. So where does the cash come from to make these refunds? Selling STs now does nothing other than postpone the inevitable need for further cash injection by the owners or closure.

It would be more honest if Rovers, or any other club, was upfront. They cannot guarantee if or when live attendance will be possible. The ST money will immediately go towards the daily club running costs and we cannot indicate if or when it would be refunded. If the club fails financially you may not get your money back.

If football clubs need to ease to cashflow issues it should be nothing more than requesting donations on the understanding donors would receive a free ST if or when attendance is possible. Selling as STs is simply dishonest.

I'd like to see a sensible justification as to why a club would undertake all the costs of selling STs, spend the cash, possibly face further costs in refunds and the issue of raising the cash to make said refunds. It makes no sense whatsoever.

I don't know the truth behind our STs not being on sale. I hope it's because the club is taking what I regard as the only acceptable approach.

In my view those calling for STs to be sold for cashflow purposes with no guarantee of anything are simply using the situation to find another stick to beat the management with. Selling STs now cannot be justified in anyway and is exploitative.

From what I have observed social distancing etc. is declining rapidly and clearly being ignored by some. Until everyone grasps the need to follow the guidelines correctly the potential for curtailing Covid-19 is very limited. Enforcing social distancing etc. in a football ground is impossible without full supporter cooperation.  A football crowd is one example of a situation where spread could be significant. It would only need one proven instance of an infection spike from a match to put all games back to BCD.

Edited by Paul

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Posted (edited)

Both sides of this argument seem to have missed the actual reason they have been on sale at a majority of clubs. It’s fairly simple to me, the clubs selling them (or were selling) are doing so because they’ve  had them on sale for an extended period, pre lockdown in most cases, as is standard at most clubs to have a sale window of months.

The few that haven’t had them on sale at all are the ones that are always late getting them out, I.e Blackburn Rovers, who usually scramble them out post annual Pune meeting leaving a few weeks to sell a standard 8/9,000 in the summer. So of course, taking a look at the logistics of it all on the 2nd August, it’s no surprise clubs in our position are giving the whole thing a wide berth and waiting for some clarity from government/EFL.

Edited by Mattyblue

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28 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Both sides of this argument seem to have missed the actual reason they have been on sale at a majority of clubs. It’s fairly simple to me, the clubs selling them (or were selling) are doing so because they’ve  had them on sale for an extended period, pre lockdown in most cases, as is standard at most clubs to have a sale window of months.

The few that haven’t had them on sale at all are the ones that are always late getting them out, I.e Blackburn Rovers, who usually scramble them out post annual Pune meeting leaving a few weeks to sell a standard 8/9,000 in the summer. So of course, taking a look at the logistics of it all on the 2nd August, it’s no surprise clubs in our position are giving the whole thing a wide berth and waiting for some clarity from government/EFL.

Quite right, I fully agree but this ignores that these clubs have continued to sell STs after they became aware of the situation.

Everton's "claim your seat" deadline was July 28th. It is absolutely clear Everton, and I guess many, many others, have continued to sell STs when they have absolutely no idea on what government guidelines will be, if or when crowds will return etc.

Middlesbrough showed the way, clubs such as Everton have ignored reality and the consequences in a desperate scramble for cash.

How anyone can defend or justify such action after the Covid-19 issues arose is beyond me. Sales before, that's life, sales afterwards are irresponsible and demonstrate a total disregard for the supporter.

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A lot different but using Lancashire ccc as an example they sold memberships pre covid but once it became apparent there would be no cricket they offered either full refunds or asked if people would be prepared to donate their membership fees to help the club tick over.

Not sure how much membership fees actually help but I decided I’m in a position where for the sake of whatever it was they could have it. Do my tiny bit. Rovers could do something similar but I think there’s so much ill will towards the owners I doubt many would donate a penny. I know wouldn’t.

I believe lancs have even sold a fair few since Covid in the full knowledge there would be no cricket as they also offered stuff like % off next years, % off club shop, priority window to purchase international tickets for England V India next year, thank you diner with a “legend”etc. Now none of that is of any interest to me but they’re thinking outside the box. Rovers just aren’t capable. 

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13 hours ago, HowieFive0 said:

The problem was the fact that no option was available to those that wanted it ..yet people want us to sign upto  a season that doesnt even exist . 

I might have misunderstood what Waggott said, but I got the impression that he was begging supporters not to ask for a refund, possibly in the hope that only a small number of refunds would be forced to be made.

I don't speak to many Rovers season ticket holders, but I got the impression that the majority were just glad for football to be back, as well as being able to watch all the away games as well as the home ones.

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Posted (edited)

I would hazard a guess most Rovers fans won't be able to basically donate £300 to the Club.The financial situation pre-Covid was bad enough but for many now it's a case of Family first.Matters really are 'grim up North' at present.

This whole situation is going to be a death knell for many Clubs.

Edited by A Northern Horde...

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1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Both sides of this argument seem to have missed the actual reason they have been on sale at a majority of clubs. It’s fairly simple to me, the clubs selling them (or were selling) are doing so because they’ve  had them on sale for an extended period, pre lockdown in most cases, as is standard at most clubs to have a sale window of months.

The few that haven’t had them on sale at all are the ones that are always late getting them out, I.e Blackburn Rovers, who usually scramble them out post annual Pune meeting leaving a few weeks to sell a standard 8/9,000 in the summer. So of course, taking a look at the logistics of it all on the 2nd August, it’s no surprise clubs in our position are giving the whole thing a wide berth and waiting for some clarity from government/EFL.

Another factor...

Many other clubs have fans who care about their club very deeply and will happily put in the money to see them through these hard times. Perhaps they are even sufficiently well off that they can afford to do so, and with a large catchment area, even a small percentage of the local population could generate this kind of cash and easier commitment. Maybe they don’t have rich owners so they know that if they don’t help themselves nobody else will.

Conversely, we have a board who think nothing of alienating their supporters because the supporters don’t pay their wages, Venkys do. We keep being reminded that without them we go under (so our money is worthless). Our catchment area is small and further dwindling, with no effort by the club to address that - instead just putting up prices for those who have stuck it out.

Our local fans live in a hugely deprived area, which is singled out as being especially susceptible to COVID-19, and remains under further sanctions meaning earning money is even more difficult (heck, in the height of irony even the club has furloughed staff - almost certainly local people!).

As a result of all of this, the numbers of Rovers fans that would be prepared to handover their cash without any guarantees would be small.

Then we don’t even bother to put them on sale?! The reason is probably two-fold. The prices that the FD will have calculated they are going to have to charge, and the need to get this backed off in Pune before they can even do so.

Yet, in all this chaos, we are supposed to be grateful to have Venkys as our owners?? The club is being run on an shoestring, with no decision making powers in the UK, let alone Blackburn but they continue to cover the loses generated while trying to minimise them. This is what this club ‘washing its own face’ looks like, fine, I get it. But I could stomach it far more if the Raos weren’t the mega rich owners that we are led to believe. We would at least have STs on sale and a belief that it was our club to protect - and the CEO wouldn’t be on £300k!

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6 hours ago, Paul said:

@chaddyroversit's not often I agree with your view but on this I think you are quite correct.

I think we can accept anyone who wants an ST at Ewood will get one. We won't sell out the probable one-third of capacity. If Rovers sell me an ST I expect it to be either for all games or to be refunded, not credited, deferred etc. for those which are BCD.

I've read Middlesbrough have taken STs off sale until it's fully understood what the ground capacity and general attendance circumstances will be. This is action for which the club should be praised. It demonstrates sound management and consideration of the consequences of selling STs before knowing how live attendance will work.

The call is for Rovers to sell STs to ease cashflow issues. I cannot for the life of me see how this makes any sense. At some point it may be necessary to refund some or all of the money raised. So where does the cash come from to make these refunds? Selling STs now does nothing other than postpone the inevitable need for further cash injection by the owners or closure.

It would be more honest if Rovers, or any other club, was upfront. They cannot guarantee if or when live attendance will be possible. The ST money will immediately go towards the daily club running costs and we cannot indicate if or when it would be refunded. If the club fails financially you may not get your money back.

If football clubs need to ease to cashflow issues it should be nothing more than requesting donations on the understanding donors would receive a free ST if or when attendance is possible. Selling as STs is simply dishonest.

I'd like to see a sensible justification as to why a club would undertake all the costs of selling STs, spend the cash, possibly face further costs in refunds and the issue of raising the cash to make said refunds. It makes no sense whatsoever.

I don't know the truth behind our STs not being on sale. I hope it's because the club is taking what I regard as the only acceptable approach.

In my view those calling for STs to be sold for cashflow purposes with no guarantee of anything are simply using the situation to find another stick to beat the management with. Selling STs now cannot be justified in anyway and is exploitative.

From what I have observed social distancing etc. is declining rapidly and clearly being ignored by some. Until everyone grasps the need to follow the guidelines correctly the potential for curtailing Covid-19 is very limited. Enforcing social distancing etc. in a football ground is impossible without full supporter cooperation.  A football crowd is one example of a situation where spread could be significant. It would only need one proven instance of an infection spike from a match to put all games back to BCD.

But some people seem to genuinely want to "help" the club.

It doesnt have to even be marketed as a season ticket but as long as the terms of any purchase are clearly outlined then I dont think it can be considered "exploitative." 

You mention the prospect of potentially having to pay that money back but that doesnt need to be the case. They have the leverage of ifollow links to be used assuming that only a proportion of the season is behind closed doors. They also have the potential to defer the season ticket until the following season in a worst case scenario which is still beneficial to cash flow.

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49 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But some people seem to genuinely want to "help" the club.

It doesnt have to even be marketed as a season ticket but as long as the terms of any purchase are clearly outlined then I dont think it can be considered "exploitative." 

You mention the prospect of potentially having to pay that money back but that doesnt need to be the case. They have the leverage of ifollow links to be used assuming that only a proportion of the season is behind closed doors. They also have the potential to defer the season ticket until the following season in a worst case scenario which is still beneficial to cash flow.

Yes the club are cash strapped ..like most clubs outside the PL but maybe ..just maybe  the club are looking at the bigger picture for once with  a moral outlook  ie ..the area is cash strapped ..a potential full lockdown may be in the offing ..how can we ask these people to part with cash for something we dont even know how its going to work  or even if it will  exist ??

Morally alone ..now is really not the time...maybe the club is putting the fans first 

Again ..people who  want to help the club out in a financial way  ..set up a fund ... donate ...  maybe contact the club about buying shares .. ? This is Hibs ..

https://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/about-us/

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Posted (edited)

I don’t particularly disagree that where we are now means it’s a logistical minefield and no wonder the club is sitting tight for now, but it’s a bit of a stretch to say the ‘club is putting the fans first’ instead of mere struggles with the practicalities and no steer from the owners.

Edited by Mattyblue

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A couple of weeks ago I thought it was possibly fair enough for the Club to sit back and see which way the wind was blowing but the problem as I see it is that with the Government now bottling it on a daily basis and reversing the easing of lockdown restrictions at the drop of a hat on a fairly random and arbitrary basis, it might not become clear what the situation is until a few days before the season starts.

By that point, it will be far too late to start selling packages from scratch imo. What we should have done is made a proactive decision and offered cheaper renewals priced on the basis either the entire season would  be BCD and available on I player again or on the basis that a percentage would be BCD. So for example if the price of a "normal" season  ticket is £45 p.m. then the price of an I follow ST could be  £22.50 p.m. and renewals could be taken at the lower rate initially and amended upwards once ST holders are allowed back in grounds.

At least this way the Club would have had some cashflow, and the majority of the people who wanted to renew would have been signed up in good time and we wouldn't have been scrabbling about potentially having to sign up 8500 people in a few days. It would surely be the easiest thing in the world to amend people's direct debits whenever fans were going to be allowed in and to increase the monthly payments accordingly.

It's at times like this that you see what people are made of and not surprisingly I think with Waggott  we're being left feeling extremely underwhelmed. Anyone could do nothing and not make a decision, and not need to be paid £300k p.a. not to do it!

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7 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

A couple of weeks ago I thought it was possibly fair enough for the Club to sit back and see which way the wind was blowing but the problem as I see it is that with the Government now bottling it on a daily basis and reversing the easing of lockdown restrictions at the drop of a hat on a fairly random and arbitrary basis, it might not become clear what the situation is until a few days before the season starts.

I don't think it makes a bit of difference really financially if the fans pay or not...

The virus seems to be taking a hold in India right now, that's what we need to worry about.  I'm not sure Tony and Tesco will be top of the list at the moment.  

Tony is going to have to do a bit of freebies with ok wages by the looks of it......that worries me, we need quality and its costing 2/3m a pop up front.

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I would say that the main problem is even assuming transfer fees are out of the question, the free agent and even loan market will be overpopulated with many teams swimming in the same pond. The delays will only mean we miss out.

They cant have the virus as an excuse. It wouldnt take much of their time to assure the manager of his budget. But they do the same every year so I dont have any sympathy at all.

Regarding season tickets, its a perfect way to claw back some cash flow and get some income in. Thats too logical.

See below a couple of examples of fans who are willing and able to buy season tickets even with the uncertainty and also offering alternatives.

Screenshot_20200803-100828_Twitter.jpg

Screenshot_20200803-100901_Twitter.jpg

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Why can Luton do it but we can't?

Screenshot_20200803-115116_Twitter.jpg

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Take a bow Phil.

It’s like you’ve been looking into my soul.

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6 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Take a bow Phil.

It’s like you’ve been looking into my soul.

You're supposed to say "But you forgot about the Waggott Tax!"... Which I did 😄

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Posted (edited)
On 01/08/2020 at 22:57, Parsonblue said:

Not sure how they could sell season tickets at the moment - aren't most of the staff still on furlough?

With the uncertainty with regard to when supporters will actually be allowed into grounds - and that may be impacted throughout the season with local lockdowns - I can understand why they are reluctant to start selling at this moment in time.  

Are you being serious!?!?

I don't know Rovers' staffing structure but I wouldn't have thought they have more than six devoted to ST sales at the appropriate time of year.  That would be a wages' bill of less than £10k per month for the process of say 4,000 ST's yielding a minimum of £1million.  It's a feckin no brainer!

There are 'options' as RevidgeBlue has written below.  Is there no one at Ewood capable of thinking!?!?

22 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

A couple of weeks ago I thought it was possibly fair enough for the Club to sit back and see which way the wind was blowing but the problem as I see it is that with the Government now bottling it on a daily basis and reversing the easing of lockdown restrictions at the drop of a hat on a fairly random and arbitrary basis, it might not become clear what the situation is until a few days before the season starts.

By that point, it will be far too late to start selling packages from scratch imo. What we should have done is made a proactive decision and offered cheaper renewals priced on the basis either the entire season would  be BCD and available on I player again or on the basis that a percentage would be BCD. So for example if the price of a "normal" season  ticket is £45 p.m. then the price of an I follow ST could be  £22.50 p.m. and renewals could be taken at the lower rate initially and amended upwards once ST holders are allowed back in grounds.

At least this way the Club would have had some cashflow, and the majority of the people who wanted to renew would have been signed up in good time and we wouldn't have been scrabbling about potentially having to sign up 8500 people in a few days. It would surely be the easiest thing in the world to amend people's direct debits whenever fans were going to be allowed in and to increase the monthly payments accordingly.

It's at times like this that you see what people are made of and not surprisingly I think with Waggott  we're being left feeling extremely underwhelmed. Anyone could do nothing and not make a decision, and not need to be paid £300k p.a. not to do it!

I think the problem we have is the club is severely under-managed.  I see neither nous nor initiative.  IMO, there are too many at Ewood on the Venky's Express gravy train and they are far too comfortable.  I think the club needs ripping apart from top to bottom on both the non playing and playing sides.  We need bright, sparky people with a 'can do attitude'.   

Edited by Mercer

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Luton have sold 6,400 ST's with no certainty about what's happening. I suggested we might be able to shift 3,000 and was told "no way". I think the Luton figure shows that there are PLENTY of fans willing to pay now. FFS Rovers.

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