Joe Rothwell - A myth or a prospect?

[darrenrover]

20 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think it's summed up by his lack of end product being his undoing. More often than not he picks the wrong option, a lot of the time after doing the hard part. 

I agree and that says to me he lacks intelligence. He has the basic physical ability but that's insufficient.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, darrenrover said:

I agree and that says to me he lacks intelligence. He has the basic physical ability but that's insufficient.

Ya and it's like he panics when he gets in the position to really hurt a team, in particular when he has more time. He over thinks it 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Exiled_Rover said:

If you're playing Evans and Travis together in CM, you'd better have worldies at FB or up front. They provide nothing in attack. It's an incredibly negative way to set up your team. 

I'd ask him to play CM with Travis with the understanding that Dack is playing AMC / #10 so he needs to get back when we don't have the ball. He's also MOST threatening when running with the ball through the centre - I watched a lot of iFollow post-lockdown and pretty much every commentator was marveling at how much panic he was sowing simply by being willing / able to carry the ball through the middle. 

Travis can cover for him - that's what he does best. 

I think the stats back up that Evans and Travis together give us a very good win percentage which probably is partly due to the fact that they give the defence more protection. Rothwell wouldnt get as much license to run at players if playing in a central 2 without exposing the defence.

[RevidgeBlue]

A prospect under a decent manager, will probably turn out to be a myth under Mowbray which is not necessarily a reflection on the player as Mowbray didn't appreciate Harrison Reed's talents either.

[Amo]

We seem to have been flooded with Rothwell's ilk since Venky's took over. Players who are not quite midfielders, not quite wingers, not quite strikers, and thus fail to cement a position. Maybe it's just the state of the modern game churning out players like this. 

[JacknOry]

4 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

Has undoubted ability but far too often makes poor decisions resulting in no real end product i.e. takes on one man too many, poor pass selection & so on. But when he does turn it on, he is really eye-catching....so why the lack of consistency ? 
Without seeing him every day in training &/or knowing the guy, it’s hard to know what motivates him...carrot or stick. TM seems to have chewed him out publicly on a few occasions so he seems to think stick...but Rothwell hasn’t noticeably improved so time for a new approach ?
if our coaching staff was all that, Rothwell is exactly the sort of player that you should see improve season on season & I don’t think he has...

Why cant i like your post?

[tomphil]

20 minutes ago, Amo said:

We seem to have been flooded with Rothwell's ilk since Venky's took over. Players who are not quite midfielders, not quite wingers, not quite strikers, and thus fail to cement a position. Maybe it's just the state of the modern game churning out players like this. 

A bit of both there really imo.

Academy system churns out ten a penny types like this who probably should have been trained as full backs or something. Because they can get past a man they get made attacking midfielders in the hope they'll be worth a few quid eventually.  Yet they never get coached the art of real wing play because those positions are out of fashion.

Teams like us probably have a high turnover of these types because there's a few around and they just hope one will fit eventually. Managers rotating and messing around hoping to find one worth money to sell on. It's just one big cog keeps turning yet it affects the standard of football on offer to watch. Unbalanced and very little flair or crosses of any quality, then strikers suffer but it's ok because one of these bog standard types gets stuck in a no 10 position as well.

Robots with any individuality ground out of them when instead those sparks of flair should be the things they are encouraged on. 

[simongarnerisgod]

the only place for rothwell is just behind the centre forward getting into space and terrorising defenders with his pace,unfortunately tony does`nt play that way and if he did armstrong or dack would be ahead of him,therefore he`s had it,id`e be thinking of selling him,you basically can`t put him anywhere else,he`s not smart enough to play in midfield and despite his speed he`s useless out wide,all the full back has to do is show him inside and he obliges and turns backwards or into trouble

[Herbie6590]

1 hour ago, JacknOry said:

Why cant i like your post?

‘Cos I’m an Admin apparently 

Keeps us humble...or something?

[Exiled in Toronto]

6 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

Has undoubted ability but far too often makes poor decisions resulting in no real end product i.e. takes on one man too many, poor pass selection & so on. But when he does turn it on, he is really eye-catching....so why the lack of consistency ? 
Without seeing him every day in training &/or knowing the guy, it’s hard to know what motivates him...carrot or stick. TM seems to have chewed him out publicly on a few occasions so he seems to think stick...but Rothwell hasn’t noticeably improved so time for a new approach ?
if our coaching staff was all that, Rothwell is exactly the sort of player that you should see improve season on season & I don’t think he has...

He had years of the best coaching money could buy at Utd so if they couldn’t make a player of him then I doubt we can. He simply doesn’t have either the right combination of attributes (e.g. pace + crossing, vision + accurate passing) or the one killer attribute that the team can’t do without. Running fast with the ball makes you a good player in the schoolyard but not a Championship first teamer.

[chaddyrovers]

Should be regular in the team this coming season. He has the talent to produce the goods and why it didn't happened for him last season I don't know. Mowbray said he has ttold him he can be as good as Benrahma in our team. Which Is right. 

 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Should be regular in the team this coming season. He has the talent to produce the goods and why it didn't happened for him last season I don't know. Mowbray said he has ttold him he can be as good as Benrahma in our team. Which Is right. 

 

Which is totally baseless you mean. Its not like Rothwell has previously had really productive seasons before but has just entered a bit of a lull. 

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Which is totally baseless you mean. Its not like Rothwell has previously had really productive seasons before but has just entered a bit of a lull. 

No its my opinion. Big fan of Rothwell and he has the talent to produce the goals and assists we want from him in the role he plays for us. 

[Ewood Ace]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Should be regular in the team this coming season. He has the talent to produce the goods and why it didn't happened for him last season I don't know. Mowbray said he has ttold him he can be as good as Benrahma in our team. Which Is right. 

 

Come on Chaddy he is no way near Benrahma's standard . Rothwell is actually older than Benrahma and Benrahma scored more goals this season alone than Rothwell has in his entire career. Not to mention the fact that Benrahma has 18 more assists over the last 2 seasons. I'd say he's more comparable with someone like Kasey Palmer than Benrahma. Like Palmer he has ability but no football brain, no end product and is shackled by Mowbray.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Ewood Ace

[Mattyblue]

28 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Should be regular in the team this coming season. He has the talent to produce the goods and why it didn't happened for him last season I don't know. Mowbray said he has ttold him he can be as good as Benrahma in our team. Which Is right. 

 

Think they call this the ‘Bargaining’ stage...

[davulsukur]

Rochina MK2

Definitely has the talent but can't seem to fit into the team anywhere.

Under Mowbray his best chance is going to be on one side of a midfield 3.

I feel like he should be starting on one side of a front 3 (if we are continuing this 4-3-3 formation) but it doesn't seem to work for him there. His end product is a problem but surely his coaching should be focused on that?

[Herbie6590]

1 hour ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

He had years of the best coaching money could buy at Utd so if they couldn’t make a player of him then I doubt we can. He simply doesn’t have either the right combination of attributes (e.g. pace + crossing, vision + accurate passing) or the one killer attribute that the team can’t do without. Running fast with the ball makes you a good player in the schoolyard but not a Championship first teamer.

But taken literally, that would mean nobody leaving Man Utd as a youngster can ever improve elsewhere...?

Keith Gillespie, Robbie Savage, Josh King, Danny Simpson, Michael Keane are some that have been released/sold by Man U & played for Rovers at some point & went on to have decent careers post-Utd so it’s not a foregone conclusion that leaving Utd marks the end of a player’s development.

 

[JPTSwindon]

Lots of fair (critical) comments, but he has that something extra if he can click.

He needs a run of games (where he hasn’t got the pressure of either being a late sub, or hauled off) in an attacking position.

We can’t afford the finished product, but there is a chance with him he could become one.

[Exiled in Toronto]

26 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

But taken literally, that would mean nobody leaving Man Utd as a youngster can ever improve elsewhere...?

Keith Gillespie, Robbie Savage, Josh King, Danny Simpson, Michael Keane are some that have been released/sold by Man U & played for Rovers at some point & went on to have decent careers post-Utd so it’s not a foregone conclusion that leaving Utd marks the end of a player’s development.

 

True, but I think all those reached their peaks well before age 25. Plus there are many more Utd cast offs who sank with barely a ripple

[Exiled_Rover]

49 minutes ago, JPTSwindon said:

Lots of fair (critical) comments, but he has that something extra if he can click.

He needs a run of games (where he hasn’t got the pressure of either being a late sub, or hauled off) in an attacking position.

We can’t afford the finished product, but there is a chance with him he could become one.

He could develop into a good Championship CM.

He won't realise that under Mowbray though.

[Guest]

Just now, Exiled_Rover said:

He could develop into a good Championship CM.

I just don't think he's robust enough to play as a CM.

A CM with *'s next to his name of, "needs to play in a three", "needs freedom to move forward" and "may have poor games, especially away from home", isn't a midfielder anybody is going to want in their Starting XI at a high Championship level.

If he makes it anywhere on the pitch it would have to be out wide or behind the striker, where the position itself takes away those defensive responsibilities and allows the freedoms that his play-style and abilities clearly require.

[Exiled_Rover]

6 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I just don't think he's robust enough to play as a CM.

A CM with *'s next to his name of, "needs to play in a three", "needs freedom to move forward" and "may have poor games, especially away from home", isn't a midfielder anybody is going to want in their Starting XI at a high Championship level.

If he makes it anywhere on the pitch it would have to be out wide or behind the striker, where the position itself takes away those defensive responsibilities and allows the freedoms that his play-style and abilities clearly require.

He doesn't bring enough to the table to play out wide or oust Dack behind the main striker.

His defensive weakness is massively overblown.

[Sparks Rover]

3 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

He had years of the best coaching money could buy at Utd so if they couldn’t make a player of him then I doubt we can. He simply doesn’t have either the right combination of attributes (e.g. pace + crossing, vision + accurate passing) or the one killer attribute that the team can’t do without. Running fast with the ball makes you a good player in the schoolyard but not a Championship first teamer.

Many a lad has made it after being released by Utd.  He needs to be told hes the best player in the league...Mowbray never ever praises his players it seems to me , apart from the old timers.(and thats usually to praise their professionalism or what theyve done in the past). Totally uninspired 

He has no idea how to manage young players and I suspect relate to them.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Sparks Rover

[bluebruce]

11 hours ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

People have short memories when it comes to Rothwell I find. Second to last game of the season vs reading he was outstanding. 

For me his position is left of a midfield 3. He needs the ball to feet and to drive 

I'm also a little amazed at the general flow of the comments here. Although, almost BECAUSE I expect people to have short memories and usually go off the very most recent performances. After lockdown, he was mostly bobbins, but then in the last 2 or 3 games it all started to click like in his hot patch at the tail end of last season. THAT Rothwell could be an absolute menace for us. The one we get most of the time isn't worth any more than the odd cameo to shake things up with his ability to carry the ball. It could really transform us if he hit hot streaks more often.

Another player who used to only have hot patches, though probably more of them or more sustained than JR, is Arma. Once he clicked consistently from January, he became easily our best weapon. That's why I'm happy to persevere with using him for another season, although he is a few years older than Arma. If we haven't seen a marked improvement to consistency by the end of the season it will likely be time to bid farewell, although on a cheap wage he might still be worth his cameos potentially.

One worry I have with Rothwell's best patches is they both seem to have come in the 'dead rubber' phase of our seasons. This suggests one of two things. Either the opposition were slacking off a little bit and this gave him the edge and space he needed to shine. Or, and this is the one I suspect was mostly at play, pressure does something to him most of the time. It seems an odd thing to say with him, because he doesn't look like he lacks confidence. He is always willing to run at defences, always. But it could be hampering his decision-making as he feels the need to impress, or takes longer to think as he tries to figure the best option, doesn't strike the ball as cleanly as he isn't letting his muscle memory lead enough, etc. Those last games of the last two seasons, he has played like the shackles were off. And he's actually capable of some sublime touches and so on when that happens.

He's a bit of an engima. One who has yet to strike the right balance consistently between under-thinking and over-thinking things, I reckon. Like bigdog said, he hasn't been helped by the manager at times in terms of playing him for a long streak when he clearly wasn't in form, and not playing him for a long streak when he clearly was in form. I'm not sure the tactics and comments from the manager suit him either, as others have said, but ultimately it's still on Joe to come out and deliver the goods.

[Fraserkirky]

13 hours ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

People have short memories when it comes to Rothwell I find. Second to last game of the season vs reading he was outstanding. 

For me his position is left of a midfield 3. He needs the ball to feet and to drive 

This ^^

Travis on the right, Rothwell on the left, and some kind of hideous beast that we let out of a cage right before each game, in the middle of the park. Plenty of depth in midfield with Holtby, Evans, Buckley and Davenport.

Dacky in behind Armstrong and either Gally, Breo or a Newbie.

Defense and GK situation is shambolic.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Fraserkirky