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6 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Puts in to perspective where we are.  Southgate wouldn't have a clue how to put a solid defence out against these proper teams.

Ended 6-0.

Frightening to think what Spain would do to England.

The substitute Fabian Ruiz looks one hell of a player- Germany had no answer for his ball control and surging runs.

Liverpool are reportedly looking to buy him from Napoli. If they get him, he would be a block to Elliott's route into the first team.

Edited by philipl

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7 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Puts in to perspective where we are.  Southgate wouldn't have a clue how to put a solid defence out against these proper teams.

Southgate beat Spain the last time he faced them..............

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2 hours ago, philipl said:

The substitute Fabian Ruiz looks one hell of a player- Germany had no answer for his ball control and surging runs.

Liverpool are reportedly looking to buy him from Napoli. If they get him, he would be a block to Elliott's route into the first team.

He’s more of a centre midfielder isn’t he? Think that’s where he plays for Napoli - it’s Insigne, Lozano, Mertens etc in the forward positions for them - although not sure where he played last night.

In any case, I think it’ll be at least a couple more years yet until Elliott is knocking on the door at Liverpool. After us I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes out on loan again, maybe to a Premier League team if he has a good year with us, which it looks like he will. 

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6 minutes ago, frosty said:

He’s more of a centre midfielder isn’t he? Think that’s where he plays for Napoli - it’s Insigne, Lozano, Mertens etc in the forward positions for them - although not sure where he played last night.

In any case, I think it’ll be at least a couple more years yet until Elliott is knocking on the door at Liverpool. After us I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes out on loan again, maybe to a Premier League team if he has a good year with us, which it looks like he will. 

Lets hope we are that premier league team.

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Spain absolutely dominated Germany in every aspect of the game. Never seen a German side defend so poorly. Spain also had a legitimate morata goal chalked off for offside and they missed a handful of very good opportunities you would back them to score. Germany were really lucky it wasnt double figures

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47 minutes ago, frosty said:

He’s more of a centre midfielder isn’t he? Think that’s where he plays for Napoli - it’s Insigne, Lozano, Mertens etc in the forward positions for them - although not sure where he played last night.

In any case, I think it’ll be at least a couple more years yet until Elliott is knocking on the door at Liverpool. After us I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes out on loan again, maybe to a Premier League team if he has a good year with us, which it looks like he will. 

Echoing rigger, is it too much to dream the Premier League team will be Blackburn Rovers?

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55 minutes ago, rigger said:

Lets hope we are that premier league team.

 

14 minutes ago, philipl said:

Echoing rigger, is it too much to dream the Premier League team will be Blackburn Rovers?

Would absolutely love for that to be the case. I’d be stunned if we go up but yep - would love it.

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I like this article on Southgate; Trials and tribulations of being England manager

In my football watching lifetime the FA has tried every idea around to try and win something to no avail. Southgate has brought some pride back to the job.

I do wonder how either Venables or Hoddle would have done if given more time. Venables left due to the ghost of off field issues, and although Hoddle wasn't everybody's cup of tea he had was a very good coach at the time.

 

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6 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Southgate beat Spain the last time he faced them..............

Probably our best performance for years.

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4 hours ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Spain absolutely dominated Germany in every aspect of the game. Never seen a German side defend so poorly. Spain also had a legitimate morata goal chalked off for offside and they missed a handful of very good opportunities you would back them to score. Germany were really lucky it wasnt double figures

You could argue that teams like Germany, Netherlands and Brazil do well because they do take a lot of risks, and as a result take a drubbing time to time.  Liverpool another example. 

If i was to level a criticism at England is we have generally always prioritised not getting beat, and I think a lot of that is how browbeaten the FA is by the press and the fans. Losing is not an option.... When was the last adventurous England team? If you put the experiment with 433 to one side with Southgate you have to go back quite a long way.

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4 hours ago, philipl said:

Echoing rigger, is it too much to dream the Premier League team will be Blackburn Rovers?

I reckon we have as much chance as about 10 clubs, so we can dare to dream. But only a little bit really...

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Just now, joey_big_nose said:

You could argue that teams like Germany, Netherlands and Brazil do well because they do take a lot of risks, and as a result take a drubbing time to time.  Liverpool another example. 

If i was to level a criticism at England is we have generally always prioritised not getting beat, and I think a lot of that is how browbeaten the FA is by the press and the fans. Losing is not an option.... When was the last adventurous England team? If you put the experiment with 433 to one side with Southgate you have to go back quite a long way.

This is a fair point.

I don't want to overstate the impact of the press (and the supporters) on the performances of the England team, but it is fair to say that the constant scrutiny and level of negativity cannot help.

Southgate is too negative in his style of play, but, overall, the England team has performed fairly well under his management. He will ultimately be judged by the Euros, but I can't imagine how England supporters would be reacting if England were losing matches in the style that France or Germany are at the moment.

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5 hours ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Spain absolutely dominated Germany in every aspect of the game. Never seen a German side defend so poorly. Spain also had a legitimate morata goal chalked off for offside and they missed a handful of very good opportunities you would back them to score. Germany were really lucky it wasnt double figures

I have. 1st September 2001, in Munich.

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53 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

You could argue that teams like Germany, Netherlands and Brazil do well because they do take a lot of risks, and as a result take a drubbing time to time.  Liverpool another example. 

If i was to level a criticism at England is we have generally always prioritised not getting beat, and I think a lot of that is how browbeaten the FA is by the press and the fans. Losing is not an option.... When was the last adventurous England team? If you put the experiment with 433 to one side with Southgate you have to go back quite a long way.

 

44 minutes ago, Eddie said:

This is a fair point.

I don't want to overstate the impact of the press (and the supporters) on the performances of the England team, but it is fair to say that the constant scrutiny and level of negativity cannot help.

Southgate is too negative in his style of play, but, overall, the England team has performed fairly well under his management. He will ultimately be judged by the Euros, but I can't imagine how England supporters would be reacting if England were losing matches in the style that France or Germany are at the moment.

There's a bit in the article I posted saying that Southgate played not to lose in the awful 0-0 against Denmark as he didn't want a loss to add negative fuel to the Greenwood/Foden situation. WC 2018 results were built upon set pieces. The exciting 4-3-3 is riskier.

Euro 2021 is anybody's. There is usually a clear favourite (whether they ended up winning it is a different story), but not this time. 

Edited by speeeeeeedie

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46 minutes ago, Eddie said:

This is a fair point.

I don't want to overstate the impact of the press (and the supporters) on the performances of the England team, but it is fair to say that the constant scrutiny and level of negativity cannot help.

Southgate is too negative in his style of play, but, overall, the England team has performed fairly well under his management. He will ultimately be judged by the Euros, but I can't imagine how England supporters would be reacting if England were losing matches in the style that France or Germany are at the moment.

Yeah. I don't think the Brazillian, Spanish, French or Germany press and fans are any kinder than our lot. There were riots in Rio and when Brazil got thumped by Germany, and the press in all those countries write horrendous stuff about the team, manager etc when things go poorly.

I think the difference seems to be the FA doesn't take it on the chin and just move on, rather it seems to try and mitigate the risk up front by making conservative. Sure that happens in all countries FAs, but maybe more so in the UK. Last "attacking" manager was probably Hoddle. Allardyce, Woy, Capello, Eriksson, McClaren all managers who built their careers on creating solid sides. Southgate hadn't really even had much of a career before taking over....

I could understand it in the periods where we didn't have many good players, but we do seem to have an exceptional crop in the offing at the moment. I think we should be more adventurous, and if we take a hiding live with it.

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England don't have enough quality central defenders.

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Just now, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

corrected for you

I typed that first then changed it as I reckon Connor Coady is decent 😁

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Just now, DeeCee said:

I typed that first then changed it as I reckon Connor Coady is decent 😁

Coady and Maguire ... when we use to have Ferdinand, Campbell and Terry etc. I'm not sure we'll have a repeat of '66 any time soon...or even '96!

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I don't rate Maguire, he's the new Phil Jones.

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1 hour ago, DeeCee said:

I don't rate Maguire, he's the new Phil Jones.

A bit harsh. IMO he is overated because we have a lack of quality at centre half - but is still a good player.

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Compared to JT or Rio he's bobbins imo

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12 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Southgate beat Spain the last time he faced them..............

Stop it.

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5 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Yeah. I don't think the Brazillian, Spanish, French or Germany press and fans are any kinder than our lot. There were riots in Rio and when Brazil got thumped by Germany, and the press in all those countries write horrendous stuff about the team, manager etc when things go poorly.

I think the difference seems to be the FA doesn't take it on the chin and just move on, rather it seems to try and mitigate the risk up front by making conservative. Sure that happens in all countries FAs, but maybe more so in the UK. Last "attacking" manager was probably Hoddle. Allardyce, Woy, Capello, Eriksson, McClaren all managers who built their careers on creating solid sides. Southgate hadn't really even had much of a career before taking over....

I could understand it in the periods where we didn't have many good players, but we do seem to have an exceptional crop in the offing at the moment. I think we should be more adventurous, and if we take a hiding live with it.

I can't really speak for the Brazilian or German press as anything I read would be translated and taken from an outsider's perspective, but I can tell you that the French press are decidedly kinder.

Now, they've also won 2 World Cups and a Euros in the past 20 odds years, as well as losing a final in each competition, so any criticism would have to be against that backdrop, but they are generally far more forgiving - and they've had a lot to forgive (the 2002 debacle, the 2010 debacle, losing a final to Portugal at home when overwhelming favourites).

I would say that manager's in those countries are typically given much longer as well.

Southgate faces the reality of knowing that his position is very-much judged tournament to tournament. Anything short of a quarterfinal appearance (no matter the side that knocked them out) would certainly see him go and even a quarterfinal appearance might not be good enough

Now, one could hope for managers that care little about their own careers and instead want to go down shooting playing the football that they like, but that can't realistically be expected from someone who will probably view this as one of their dream jobs.

Many managers would probably opt for a more defensive approach that they thought would limit risk and reduce matches to moments of luck, brilliance, or incompetence and hope that they faired the better.

No one can doubt that Southgate has turned England into a side that will consistently beat sides when they are clearly the more talented - tonight proves that and the only real blips in that regard have been, crucially for him, probably in his biggest moments (the World Cup and Nations League semis).

I have my fingers crossed that he will embrace a more attacking approach in the summer and be won over by the young, aggressive, pacey side that this England team could be.

I won't be holding my breath.

 

 

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England in Pot 1 for the December 7 draw for WC22. Wales in Pot 2, with both Irelands and Scotland in Pot 3. Ideal draw for me:

England
Wales
Northern Ireland
Georgia
Andorra
Gibraltar

Gibraltar have nearly beaten Georgia before, are in the same tier as NI in the next Nations League. Playing England at Wembley is a dream for every Llanito, especially players wanting to put themselves in the shop window.

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