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Newcastle United away in the League Cup

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11 minutes ago, Hasta said:

"Ran with the ball a lot, dribbled and beat his man but in positions that weren't dangerous or nothing came of it, got a couple of shots away from outside the box, some of which were blocked."

Am I describing a Rothwell bad game or a Brereton good game?

Both

We played pretty but largely ineffective tippy-tappy and only managed 3 shots on target with no goals against a bottom half PL side, well to be accurate their Reserves.

After the Bournemouth match, I mentioned our quite pathetic attempts at shooting at goal. 

This time it's heading the ball, well actually not heading effectively. This runs throughout the team and some are not very good at it or just don't want to do it, Brereton and Bell are just 2 of those who will jump under the ball, if they jump at all, to avoid contact. Williams's weak aerial challenge and trot back led to us conceding at the Toon.

With Lenihan and Ayala as our first choice CBs, TMs dreams of playing the ball out from the back will be under threat. At least Ayala can head the ball and will be an attacking threat at our corners and freekicks which we currently just don't have.

 

Edited by AllRoverAsia

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I can watch the full replay via the App on my mobile but not via the Rovers Website where it is available but won't play. Odd.

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Football is a funny old game.

I thought we dominated Newcastle but in typical Steve Bruce fashion they caught us on the counter a couple of times. Unfortunately for us it was Ryan Fraser on the end of that pass and not any of their other strikers. One of the poorest teams I have seen us play in recent memory, unless we made them look that way.

Not buying this reserves malarkey. One or two second string players in but they had the likes of Almiron, Joelinton, Fraser, Longstaff all starting. We came up against a Premier League team on their own ground and ran the game.

My criticism is that we were too slow on the ball. It allowed the team to get back, and again with a Bruce side that means two banks of four and difficult to break down, with a quick attack ready to pounce on the ball into space in behind. It's a tactic as old as man and has forged a career in management for the Potato man.

JRC was anonymous yesterday, and you felt the pace of Rothwell and Dolan passed him by. It will happen with youngsters though. Buckley looked good when he come on, and you can tell he is ahead of other players. An example of that was that little pass he made to Nyambe late on, just in front of him and ready for him to whip in first time. Nyambe was on the back foot expecting a pass to his feet, which was the easy amateur ball to make, but should have been awake to Buckley's vision.

I actually thought Brereton had a good game by his standards. He beat a few men, played a couple of good one-twos with Rothwell in the first half that culminated in shooting opportunities and put himself about a bit. I fancied him scoring that last minute chance but once again far too slow on the ball in the box. Keep trying though, because he's shown more endeavour in his appearances in pre-season to now than he has in his previous 2 years.

Ayala won't go a miss in this squad but other than the goal the defence didn't put a foot wrong. I like how high Kaminski comes up, plays as that extra defender when we have possession. Could have done better for the goal but he was onto a loser really. It was piss poor by Nyambe for not following his man and trying to play offside.

Last point would be that just before the first half ended Almiron broke though and I called it that he'd send Lenihan packing. Sure enough he did. For all his good points Lenihan turns like milk and when a forward runs at him you fancy the forward every time. 

Edited by Dreams of 1995

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BBC: The hosts made 10 changes from the side that confidently beat West Ham in the Premier League on Saturday and it showed in a disjointed performance.

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Yedlin, Clarke, Manquillo, Longstaff, Fraser, Almiron, Joelinton all started. All have lots of Premier League experience.

They finished the pitch with their best player Saint-Maxim on. Murphy who came on is a regular player there too.

But of course we didn't face Shelvey, Hayden, Lascelles or Wilson. There were a few out but the ones who stepped in weren't reserves, they were squad players with plenty of first-division experience.

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28 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

JRC was anonymous yesterday

couldn't disagree more, he fed 6 crosses into the box alone. 

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29 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I like how high Kaminski comes up, plays as that extra defender when we have possession

Agreed. Kaminski seems a cool character. A goalkeeper that you hardly notice is the best kind of goalkeeper for me. 

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That Newcastle XI would be pushing for automatic in the Championship over a full season.

I think whilst there were frustrating moments, at least you can see a change in style and philosophy, its going to take some time, and also some bumps along the way, but I hope they stick to this formula for a few months and then see where we are.

We can always resort back to our more direct style once Dack comes back in.

But for now, I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt and look for the positives.

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11 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Kaminski should have done better in my opinion, the defence in the build up were all over the place and it did come on the counter attack which is a worry that I have flagged because we keep playing with our full backs both high up and it will cause us issues on the counter attack.

The goal didn't come from Counter attack at all tho. If you watch it back properly you will see that we have a free kick which Rothwell takes and Their keeper collected the ball and play its out to his defence and we close it down to they pass it back to Gillespie, who clears the ball and Joe Linton win the ball in a challenge with Williams who lays it off to Almiron who is in space and Travis isn't close enough to challenge him. Fraser makes a good run from left side of the pitch in between Nyambe and Lenihan and the ball is played to him and he scores. Our defensively line is poor and not straight! Also Nyambe should track the run as he is too deep and playing him onside. 

It had nothing to do with our full back both playing high up at all did their goal. 

11 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Travis wouldnt come off? Do soft arses refuse to play with damaged knee ligaments? Ultimately if he had an injury, he should have been told that he has to come off, not left on to make it worse and now miss many weeks.

Travis is a warrior and will play through the pain barrier and he didnt want to come off as Mark Atkins said on the Radio Lancs commentary. We don't know how bad it really is 1st. Lets see what the Doctors says. 

11 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

There are some positives tonight for sure but ultimately I am worried as to the vulnerability of our centre backs playing with our full backs so high, and I am unconvinced that we have enough of a cutting edge. I dont think we would have scored had we played until next week.

Plenty of positives from last night game and we are playing well and created chances. I would be more concern and worried if we were not creating chances. 

we have 5 to 6 good/great chances last night. Score 2 and we win the game. 

Williams had 3 good chances to scores. one 1st half and two second half including a similar chance to the one that Mulgrew scored there at St James Park a few years ago. Also Holtby missed a great chance 1st half and he should have buried that one, just like Brereton one in the last few minutes of that game. Plus his other shot were he come deep and plays a one two with Holtby and forcing a decent save. 

11 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

40 million of that was spent on Joelinton, a total waste of space!

Newcastle still paid it and the 11 and subs cost well over 100 million pounds. 

11 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I think this comes down to how much faith you have in what Mowbray is doing. Trying to play more expansively, 4-3-3, full backs high up, sometimes false 9s, wide strikers,

We haven't played false 9 this season. I don't see Brereton has a number 9 striker like others but playing in wide role as part of a front 3. This 4-3-3 formation is playing well and suits our current squad. 

11 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I also dont know how Dack will come back in without a change of shape, but we do need him back because he is one of only 2 players who can get us goals.

I don't why you so bothered about Dack cos I don't being part of first team currently and wont be for a few more weeks as he will need a couple of 23's games 1st. You probably have 3 to 5/6 games before Dack will be back to proper fitness. So lets focus on the players we have and not worry about where Dack will play but I wouldn't be change the formation just for Dack now

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I'm just watching the highlights.

I forgot Holtby missed an absolute sitter. 

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@chaddyrovers the point in which I will be on board with this new tactical overhaul will be when it starts to get results. We have played 433 under Mowbrays new possession based style in 10 league games and collected 10 points which is a really poor return. I didnt feel like we would score if we were playing until next week last night.

My point about being caught on the counter was more prevalent on Saturday when they did score but we were countered on a few times last night and I worry that it will continue if Mowbray insists on having both full backs so high up. Its no use signing a good centre back and expecting that it will solve our defensive woes. I also think that if that goal last night goes past Walton, your reaction would have been far more critical.

I know that Travis is a warrior and wants to play on. But after he picked up the injury, the decision should have been taken out of his hands and no risk should have been taken. For you to approve playing on with what has turned out to be a very serious injury and a problem he has had before because he "isnt a soft arse" is laughable.

And the sooner Dack is back, the better as we only have Armstrong who offers a goal threat at the moment. 

@JoeH you really think Rankin Costello was at all effective? Did any of those crosses go to a Rovers player?

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2 hours ago, Hasta said:

"Ran with the ball a lot, dribbled and beat his man but in positions that weren't dangerous or nothing came of it, got a couple of shots away from outside the box, some of which were blocked."

Am I describing a Rothwell bad game or a Brereton good game?

Both shit for me...and (sorry but) I am just sick of it...( he said with a sigh)

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19 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

@JoeH you really think Rankin Costello was at all effective? Did any of those crosses go to a Rovers player?

Yes. To say he was completely ineffective is unfair. I'm not claiming he was our most effective player but "not at all effective" is unwarranted, perhaps silly/over the top too.

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1 minute ago, JoeH said:

Yes. To say he was completely ineffective is unfair. I'm not claiming he was our most effective player but "not at all effective" is unwarranted, perhaps silly/over the top too.

I disagree, as long as its not with over the top conclusions, he will never make it, he is shit etc, which I havent seen. He was anonymous really in both games and I am yet to see what he really offers. He is quite slow, which is fine, not all attacking players are fast, but he hasnt stood out with his technical ability, his know how of where the ball will drop, his skill, his passing, he hasnt really got involved. 

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I was just reading the comments in my local paper of a new striker Rochdale have just signed - " Brian ( Barry Murphy the manager ) is a manager with lots of modern ideas  - he wants to play Premier League style football. We've got a new pitch so that will help towards the way he wants to play "

I'm sorry son but to play Premier League style football it helps if you have actual Premier League players. It takes a lot more than a new pitch. Cue plenty of clumsy journeyman centre halves getting caught in possession at the Crown Oil Arena this season.

I don't think he's the only manager with the new " pass it around until you lose it " mentality

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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On the travis thing if a player says hes ok to play on surely theres only so much a physio can do in the brief time they have to examine the injury

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47 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

and I am yet to see what he really offers

You're looking with way too critical an eye, or not looking closely enough then, in my opinion. You won't change my mind on JRC and I can't change yours. So end of convo really

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1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

 the point in which I will be on board with this new tactical overhaul will be when it starts to get results. We have played 433 under Mowbrays new possession based style in 10 league games and collected 10 points which is a really poor return. I didnt feel like we would score if we were playing until next week last night.

My point about being caught on the counter was more prevalent on Saturday when they did score but we were countered on a few times last night and I worry that it will continue if Mowbray insists on having both full backs so high up. Its no use signing a good centre back and expecting that it will solve our defensive woes. I also think that if that goal last night goes past Walton, your reaction would have been far more critical.

I know that Travis is a warrior and wants to play on. But after he picked up the injury, the decision should have been taken out of his hands and no risk should have been taken. For you to approve playing on with what has turned out to be a very serious injury and a problem he has had before because he "isnt a soft arse" is laughable.

And the sooner Dack is back, the better as we only have Armstrong who offers a goal threat at the moment. 

last season is last season, But the last 2 games last season we didn't play 4-3-3 either

But Mowbray has changed how he is playing the 4-3-3 system this season and playing Armstrong in the 9 role like I suggested last season. 

why mention counter attack point in this match thread when it more prevalent on Saturday, Also you said this previously "Kaminski should have done better in my opinion, the defence in the build up were all over the place and it did come on the counter attack" . Its seems you were saying the Newcastle goal came from a counter attack? so why the change of comment then? 

Travis didnt want to come off. 

You have no idea how Dack will come back. He might never been the same player again. Lets hope not but a possibility. But Dack isn't fit at the minute so why do you keep banging on about him. So lets focus on the players who are fit and how we will play on Saturday

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1 minute ago, JoeH said:

You're looking with way too critical an eye, or not looking closely enough then, in my opinion. You won't change my mind on JRC and I can't change yours. So end of convo really

exactly. He is far too over critical and was on last night performance which we out performed a PL team and Bruce's post match comments even said they were very fortuned to win. And thats was the Newcastle manager. He failed to mention we missed 5 good/great chances last night. 

You talk up Chapman as being the missing player that we need last season than admitted 2 weeks ago thats he is unsure on Chapman. 

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9 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

last season is last season, But the last 2 games last season we didn't play 4-3-3 either

But Mowbray has changed how he is playing the 4-3-3 system this season and playing Armstrong in the 9 role like I suggested last season. 

why mention counter attack point in this match thread when it more prevalent on Saturday, Also you said this previously "Kaminski should have done better in my opinion, the defence in the build up were all over the place and it did come on the counter attack" . Its seems you were saying the Newcastle goal came from a counter attack? so why the change of comment then? 

Travis didnt want to come off. 

You have no idea how Dack will come back. He might never been the same player again. Lets hope not but a possibility. But Dack isn't fit at the minute so why do you keep banging on about him. So lets focus on the players who are fit and how we will play on Saturday

Dack is our best player and our biggest goal threat, so when he’s back, we need to play him. 

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Just now, K-Hod said:

Dack is our best player and our biggest goal threat, so when he’s back, we need to play him. 

People have to give Dack time and patience. He had major surgery and I not expecting much from him in the first few months. But he needs a couple of couple of 23's games first games before playing for the 1st team. 

 

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I’m yet to see what JRC brings. Got to give him a chance and certainly hasn’t let the side down but can’t pretend that I’ve been overly impressed.

Thought Brereton did alright yesterday. Made things happen and certainly more positive signs than there were a year ago. Needs to do more in the box.

Dolan stood out again. Ball of energy and confidence. Brings a different dimension. If he keeps this up he could be massive for us this season.

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20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

last season is last season, But the last 2 games last season we didn't play 4-3-3 either

But Mowbray has changed how he is playing the 4-3-3 system this season and playing Armstrong in the 9 role like I suggested last season. 

why mention counter attack point in this match thread when it more prevalent on Saturday, Also you said this previously "Kaminski should have done better in my opinion, the defence in the build up were all over the place and it did come on the counter attack" . Its seems you were saying the Newcastle goal came from a counter attack? so why the change of comment then? 

Travis didnt want to come off. 

You have no idea how Dack will come back. He might never been the same player again. Lets hope not but a possibility. But Dack isn't fit at the minute so why do you keep banging on about him. So lets focus on the players who are fit and how we will play on Saturday

Oh come on mate your positive PR attempts are overloading the amount of contradictions you are posting. 

Last season is last season - like prior form doesn't matter? Problem is I've heard you mention TMs past achievements year on year - especially in bad patches - so let's have some consistency. 

Dack might not return the same player. Possibly but then you have banged on about how much we missed him last season and needed to factor that into our view of how we did. Again you can't have it both ways. 

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29 minutes ago, JoeH said:

You're looking with way too critical an eye, or not looking closely enough then, in my opinion. You won't change my mind on JRC and I can't change yours. So end of convo really

Conversely, having seen him play with the kids regularly and seemingly being impressive there, you might be being overly keen to see him impress for the first team. He didnt do anything to impress, he wasnt on his own, our attacking players across the board were ineffective for all the tidy play behind it.

20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

exactly. He is far too over critical and was on last night performance which we out performed a PL team and Bruce's post match comments even said they were very fortuned to win. And thats was the Newcastle manager. He failed to mention we missed 5 good/great chances last night. 

You talk up Chapman as being the missing player that we need last season than admitted 2 weeks ago thats he is unsure on Chapman. 

Football is about results, not nice comments from the opposition. I have said that there are elements of the performances, especially last night, and individual performances that impressed me. As I said, until this style of play starts yielding results, then I wont be the only one who has doubts.

Your comments about Travis are absolutely crazy. I dont care if he wants to come off or not, if there was a risk in keeping him on, which there was, then force him to come off. You are implying that Mowbray might have tried and been overruled by a player!

And stop talking bollocks about Chapman. I suggested him at times last season because we had Sam Gallagher playing as a winger, something you initially denied. I had a bizarre idea that a natural wide man would be more effective than a clumsy striker who was achieving nothing there. I have repeatedly insisted that I feel that we need to sign wide men, and even at the moment, aside from Armstrong and Dack, who both want to play central, I am unsure that any of the other attacking players are capable of contributing goals and assists or even of playing in the wide roles.

 

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