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Debate until the cows come home but today can be summarised in our own half we were ok, in their half we were absolutely shite.

Summarised further by the middle of the park players didn't perform in any sense of the word and we'd have been better dispensing with a midfield, further strengthening our defence by one and then played with 5 in attack and a back 5. Once in possession in our own half, we could then have launched the ball forward, sometimes coming down with snow on it, for our forwards to make something of a knockdown or attempt to win a free kick just outside the box. It's not pretty to watch but it could be quite effective.

We're up against Watford next, with their parachute payments and all that, just down from the Premier League, we'll write that fixture off and play the kids.

Big Sam, I'm sorry, my opinion but shove his style of football where the sun don't shine. (I'd prefer him to ToMo but make of that what you will!)

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19 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

The Johnson/Evans partnership today brought back horrific memories of the Smallwood/Evans partnership. Maybe Evans is just shite.

It might have worked had Evans played the deeper holding roll and Johnson the more attacking role. But no Tony worries  about the opposition and plays Johnson deep, maybe because of his superior heading. I also could not understand why Chapman did not come on for Dolan instead of Gally, because ten minutes later Chapman came on and both ended up playing each others positions. 

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2 hours ago, tonygreenbank said:

I’m not sure we’ve ever had 20,000 ST holders in a season! I would love to be proved wrong but are you sure of your facts?

The ‘Taking Back Ewood’ campaign of the late 2000s saw us sell 20,000 STs.

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38 minutes ago, BankEnd Rover said:

Armstrong again frustrates the hell out of me. I’ve never rated him, despite his wonder goals. Lazy and far too inconsistent. 

Lol, you must have incredibly high standards. 

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The majority of us spent yesterday on the transfer thread drooling over the business we have done.

We discussed their attributes and how they would improve the team.Douglas solid left back  excellent at set pieces,Trybull defensive midfielder not seen an awful lot of him but in the few games IV seen I think he will come into the side, Elliot yes only 17 but the fact he is with the first team and playing in some cup games and on for two league games last season already at that age tells you he is a bit special.

Those 3 come here with winning mentality,2 have got out of the division in recent times and Elliot is around the Liverpool squad.

Those 3, Rothwell, Holtby didn't play can't blame Mowbray for that .

That's 5 starters from the team missing today imo and in the shorter term Dack to come back and longer term Travis.

It will be a totally different team to today for the majority of season injurys aside.Hopefully Elliot will live up to what Klopp thinks about him and hopefully that will put an end to Gallagher coming on and Dolan used later when defences tire.I do think the lad looks a talent and although his standard has dropped a little last two games the whole team especially the midfield 3 have been much poorer aswell just think he could be a great impact sub and think he will go with Armstrong Dack Elliot

Today was a terrible result and performance but in a few weeks time we will have a totally different team practically and Douglas, Elliot and Trybull bring a different mindset

I do blame Tony for Holtby not playing today .Surely he back Wednesday?I can understand the birth and a few days after but back now surely 

Edited by islander200

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11 minutes ago, rigger said:

It might have worked had Evans played the deeper holding roll and Johnson the more attacking role. But no Tony worries  about the opposition and plays Johnson deep, maybe because of his superior heading. I also could not understand why Chapman did not come on for Dolan instead of Gally, because ten minutes later Chapman came on and both ended up playing each others positions. 

Johnson isn’t an attacking player. He’s just as slow as Evans. Just has more technical ability and a better boot on him. Never an attacking player. Seems to huff and puff after making a 10 yard dart.

Edited by BankEnd Rover

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1 hour ago, islander200 said:

My god.Do you think we will line up with a midfield 3 of Johnson, Evans and Buckley many times this season.

When you saw Evans and Johnson together in the starting line up did you think we were likely to create a lot of chances today?

Do you not think that players such as Dack, Elliot, Rothwell and Holtby would have made a difference today?

Douglas coming in at left back ,do you not think his wand of a left foot will aid us in creating chances?

We were poor today no doubt but is it just me that can see the amount of players missing from the squad today?

 

56 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

This Mowbray got undone nonsense is absolutely ridiculous. Mowbray put every attacker he has on the pitch today, switched formation at halftime. We looked fairly solid at the back but struggled to break a very well organized Forest side down. 
I was more upset about the Cardiff game then today, knowing that 5/6 of the front 6 won’t be playing very shortly. 

Ayala I thought was solid today. Lenihan too for the most part. Nyambe and Bell were okay. 
Midfield diabolical, and with Johnson looking like he was half cut, what on earth was he doing for the goal. Player of month, absolute nonsense.

Evans with a pathetic first half in particular, he so slow and boring, should be long gone. Buckley, I’ll hold my hands and say I was wrong, he looked nervous and shaky all game, couple of nice balls but need more.

Brereton poor, Gallagher not a footballer and Armstrong’s movement was dreadful not for the first time, when teams sit in he is useless. Dolan just lost his starting job.

There will be way more enjoyable Sat afternoons then that. 

Would not be surprised if it’s Rothwell Trybull Holtby next week. Rothwell was a massive miss today and makes the 4-3-3 tick for me

 

Mowbray definitely warrants an element of sympathy for the missing players, no doubt about it, but it also doesn't give him a free pass regarding his management of the players that were available. 

You look at how he used the attacking players especially in the second half. The constant Gallagher on the wing experiment, it has never worked. There was nothing stopping Gallagher going alongside Armstrong up top, especially when Chapman came on, a winger played in a number 10 position to allow Gallagher to continue to plod up and down the line unsuccessfully. If either of Armstrong and Gallagher were to play anywhere apart from right up front, surely it was Armstrong who is far more effective out wide and also was struggling to get much of the ball in a central role.

You also look at how he used Johnson, a player incapable of taking the ball on the half turn, much deeper than Evans who is incapable of any sort of creativity or goal threat. The late winner came from sloppiness in possession by Johnson, and it is far from the first time.

It is also not satisfactory to avoid criticism simply by "putting every attacker on the pitch." We only have 2 out and out strikers and the taller one was lumped on the wing. He did change the formation but it didnt make any positive difference.

34 minutes ago, DaveyB said:

Lots of criticism on here for Brereton, but he was comfortably the pick of the 3 forwards that started this afternoon. 
 

Not saying that he played particularly well, but the other 2 were worse and the fact that Ben is getting pelters and the other 2 aren’t being mentioned says more about the posters on here than it does about him.  

 

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

Why are you mentioning Brereton in that post.They don't play the same position.

And like I said in a previous post when every body fit it will be Armstrong, Dack, Elliot as the front 3.

Brereton doesn't play as a striker for us.He was ok v Bournemouth,better at Wycombe and excellent at Derby.Been poor the last 2 games but so has Dolan and Armstrong.

Breretons runs and general play led to goals in the Wycombe and Derby matches.

I find it pretty pathetic your obsession with Brereton, he didn't put the 7 million price tag on his head, didn't force Mowbray to pay it, as far as I'm aware he has never bigged himself up but this season at least he has been trying.And whatever you say he did play well in the first 3 games, last 2 games not many have played well

Not this myth about people being "obsessed" or overly critical with Brereton. If anything, many are incredibly patient and cling onto any slither of hope of an improvement desperate for him to do well. For most of his Rovers career, he has not looked comfortable on a football pitch. Since lockdown, he has shown small glimpses of hope, occasional runs, neat touches of hold up play, little contributions into moves for goals, but bar one goal, he has offered no goalscoring threat at all. Sometimes he is neat and tidy, he is ok if not threatening, sometimes like today he is totally ineffective. He was decent away at Derby, ok but not stand out v Wycombe and poor at Bournemouth, as well as today and v Cardiff. I thought it was pretty telling that when we needed a goal today, Brereton was replaced for Brennan who is clearly a million miles from Championship standard. It shows the level of the benchmark he is aiming to improve upon that merely trying is an improvement!

The thing with Armstrong is that he is the top scorer in the league with Toney, he was very quiet but he has credit in the bank having impressed so much to justify the occasional quiet game. I think whilst understandable, the excitement over Dolan was well over the top, he has not been in a senior squad before this season. Brereton has played over 100 times in the Championship and he offers absolutely no threat whatsoever. You could argue that his lack of contribution in spite of plenty of appearances is more damning than the price tag.

Also, @JoeH you mentioned that you felt that Hughton would play a much more aggressive and expansive game that what we saw to try and satisfy the fans at home and the hierarchy. I was personally not surprised to see a well drilled Forest built on structure and organisation and one that ultimately grew into the game and unfortunately I felt possibly deserved their narrow win.

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16 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

Debate until the cows come home but today can be summarised in our own half we were ok, in their half we were absolutely shite.

Summarised further by the middle of the park players didn't perform in any sense of the word and we'd have been better dispensing with a midfield, further strengthening our defence by one and then played with 5 in attack and a back 5. Once in possession in our own half, we could then have launched the ball forward, sometimes coming down with snow on it, for our forwards to make something of a knockdown or attempt to win a free kick just outside the box. It's not pretty to watch but it could be quite effective.

We're up against Watford next, with their parachute payments and all that, just down from the Premier League, we'll write that fixture off and play the kids.

Big Sam, I'm sorry, my opinion but shove his style of football where the sun don't shine. (I'd prefer him to ToMo but make of that what you will!)

You're knocking Big Sam's perceived style yet you appear to have wanted us to go full " ale house " this afternoon. Somewhat of a contradiction there I think.

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2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You're knocking Big Sam's perceived style yet you appear to have wanted us to go full " ale house " this afternoon. Somewhat of a contradiction there I think.

I was being sarcastic Tyrone, based upon previous posts, sorry, lowest form of wit and all that, I know. I'm annoyed with myself jim drew me to that level.

That said, alehouse could have worked today last 20 because nothing did in the first 70.

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Just for a bit of context, whilst accepting that Rovers didn't play especially well today, below are the stats from Forest v Bristol, Lamouche's last match.

I don't think that their performance today was that far removed from their performance last time out. I suspect they're in a false position and will be up there or thereabouts come May. So let's not be too despondent, we'll have better days.

I thought we deserved a draw today, certainly not a cruel defeat in that manner, but then we were the authors of our own downfall too.

 

Screenshot_20201017-213825_Chrome.jpg

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1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Mowbray definitely warrants an element of sympathy for the missing players, no doubt about it, but it also doesn't give him a free pass regarding his management of the players that were available. 

You look at how he used the attacking players especially in the second half. The constant Gallagher on the wing experiment, it has never worked. There was nothing stopping Gallagher going alongside Armstrong up top, especially when Chapman came on, a winger played in a number 10 position to allow Gallagher to continue to plod up and down the line unsuccessfully. If either of Armstrong and Gallagher were to play anywhere apart from right up front, surely it was Armstrong who is far more effective out wide and also was struggling to get much of the ball in a central role.

You also look at how he used Johnson, a player incapable of taking the ball on the half turn, much deeper than Evans who is incapable of any sort of creativity or goal threat. The late winner came from sloppiness in possession by Johnson, and it is far from the first time.

It is also not satisfactory to avoid criticism simply by "putting every attacker on the pitch." We only have 2 out and out strikers and the taller one was lumped on the wing. He did change the formation but it didnt make any positive difference.

 

Not this myth about people being "obsessed" or overly critical with Brereton. If anything, many are incredibly patient and cling onto any slither of hope of an improvement desperate for him to do well. For most of his Rovers career, he has not looked comfortable on a football pitch. Since lockdown, he has shown small glimpses of hope, occasional runs, neat touches of hold up play, little contributions into moves for goals, but bar one goal, he has offered no goalscoring threat at all. Sometimes he is neat and tidy, he is ok if not threatening, sometimes like today he is totally ineffective. He was decent away at Derby, ok but not stand out v Wycombe and poor at Bournemouth, as well as today and v Cardiff. I thought it was pretty telling that when we needed a goal today, Brereton was replaced for Brennan who is clearly a million miles from Championship standard. It shows the level of the benchmark he is aiming to improve upon that merely trying is an improvement!

The thing with Armstrong is that he is the top scorer in the league with Toney, he was very quiet but he has credit in the bank having impressed so much to justify the occasional quiet game. I think whilst understandable, the excitement over Dolan was well over the top, he has not been in a senior squad before this season. Brereton has played over 100 times in the Championship and he offers absolutely no threat whatsoever. You could argue that his lack of contribution in spite of plenty of appearances is more damning than the price tag.

Also, @JoeH you mentioned that you felt that Hughton would play a much more aggressive and expansive game that what we saw to try and satisfy the fans at home and the hierarchy. I was personally not surprised to see a well drilled Forest built on structure and organisation and one that ultimately grew into the game and unfortunately I felt possibly deserved their narrow win.

Yes Mowbray does in terms of tactics,like you say the way he used Evans and Johnson the point you made, Gallagher again out wide etc but my posts are  in response to people saying things like "no chance of the play offs", "same old useless shite we always lose this sort of game"

We were missing 5 starters a 6th when Dack comes back.Johnson and Evans midfield ,why he didn't loan out Davenport or sell him is beyond me.He did ok in his spell at Burton Albion in the championship granted a few year ago,surely a league one club would have at least loaned him.

The 3 new signings come with a different mentality .

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1 hour ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Not a good performance  - but unlucky to lose to an ultra defensive forest.

Ultra defensive or not, they managed 15 shots to our 6.

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13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Mowbray definitely warrants an element of sympathy for the missing players, no doubt about it, but it also doesn't give him a free pass regarding his management of the players that were available. 

You look at how he used the attacking players especially in the second half. The constant Gallagher on the wing experiment, it has never worked. There was nothing stopping Gallagher going alongside Armstrong up top, especially when Chapman came on, a winger played in a number 10 position to allow Gallagher to continue to plod up and down the line unsuccessfully. If either of Armstrong and Gallagher were to play anywhere apart from right up front, surely it was Armstrong who is far more effective out wide and also was struggling to get much of the ball in a central role.

You also look at how he used Johnson, a player incapable of taking the ball on the half turn, much deeper than Evans who is incapable of any sort of creativity or goal threat. The late winner came from sloppiness in possession by Johnson, and it is far from the first time.

It is also not satisfactory to avoid criticism simply by "putting every attacker on the pitch." We only have 2 out and out strikers and the taller one was lumped on the wing. He did change the formation but it didnt make any positive difference.

 

Not this myth about people being "obsessed" or overly critical with Brereton. If anything, many are incredibly patient and cling onto any slither of hope of an improvement desperate for him to do well. For most of his Rovers career, he has not looked comfortable on a football pitch. Since lockdown, he has shown small glimpses of hope, occasional runs, neat touches of hold up play, little contributions into moves for goals, but bar one goal, he has offered no goalscoring threat at all. Sometimes he is neat and tidy, he is ok if not threatening, sometimes like today he is totally ineffective. He was decent away at Derby, ok but not stand out v Wycombe and poor at Bournemouth, as well as today and v Cardiff. I thought it was pretty telling that when we needed a goal today, Brereton was replaced for Brennan who is clearly a million miles from Championship standard. It shows the level of the benchmark he is aiming to improve upon that merely trying is an improvement!

The thing with Armstrong is that he is the top scorer in the league with Toney, he was very quiet but he has credit in the bank having impressed so much to justify the occasional quiet game. I think whilst understandable, the excitement over Dolan was well over the top, he has not been in a senior squad before this season. Brereton has played over 100 times in the Championship and he offers absolutely no threat whatsoever. You could argue that his lack of contribution in spite of plenty of appearances is more damning than the price tag.

Also, @JoeH you mentioned that you felt that Hughton would play a much more aggressive and expansive game that what we saw to try and satisfy the fans at home and the hierarchy. I was personally not surprised to see a well drilled Forest built on structure and organisation and one that ultimately grew into the game and unfortunately I felt possibly deserved their narrow win.

It's not a myth he responded to one of my posts where Brereton wasn't even mentioned had nothing to do with Brereton and gave me a rant of how poor Brereton is, that's pretty obsessive in my book.So not sure what you on about?He also said Brereton has done nothing again this season which clearly isn't true so that's not saying it how it is it?

I know you will say not many assists and no goals true, but Brereton has played a  role in our good performances this season.He had a hand in all the goals against Derby, and his drive and run set Rothwell away to assist against Wycombe.Im not claiming that's groundbreaking stuff and nor am I saying he has been amazing but he did do well in those 3 games last 2 games so have the rest been shit apart from defence.So your telling me him saying Brereton has been useless this season isn't BS?

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7 minutes ago, islander200 said:

It's not a myth he responded to one of my posts where Brereton wasn't even mentioned had nothing to do with Brereton and gave me a rant of how poor Brereton is, that's pretty obsessive in my book.So not sure what you on about?He also said Brereton has done nothing again this season which clearly isn't true so that's not saying it how it is it?

I know you will say not many assists and no goals true, but Brereton has played a  role in our good performances this season.He had a hand in all the goals against Derby, and his drive and run set Rothwell away to assist against Wycombe.Im not claiming that's groundbreaking stuff and nor am I saying he has been amazing but he did do well in those 3 games last 2 games so have the rest been shit apart from defence.So your telling me him saying Brereton has been useless this season isn't BS?

I would say that useless as an overall judgement is harsh. I think in 2 games he has been totally unthreatening but has done neat bits and pieces in non dangerous areas. In 4 games, he has done nothing. And in the Doncaster game, very mixed. Missed an open net, good play in the build up to the second. 

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16 minutes ago, islander200 said:

He had a hand in all the goals against Derby, 

That is quite simply untrue. If you are going to try to defend him then at least tell the truth.

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17 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I would say that useless as an overall judgement is harsh. I think in 2 games he has been totally unthreatening but has done neat bits and pieces in non dangerous areas. In 4 games, he has done nothing. And in the Doncaster game, very mixed. Missed an open net, good play in the build up to the second. 

Yeah ok you accept useless is harsh and you don't think quoting my post about Bradley Johnson and going on a rant about Brereton isn't obsessive?.IV seen you do this before with chaddy making out it's a myth when it clearly isn't.Some players get irrational negativity...even when said player plays well .You responding to mine the way you did is my case in point my quoted post had absolutely nothing to do with Brereton it was about Johnson.

And you are also making out that I'm saying Brereton is brilliant which I'm not but he was better in those 3 games than you suggest.Did you play at all? The runs Brereton was making in those games dragging players out of position etc are an important side of the game again not earth shattering,he played a part in all the goals we scored at Derby.Im just saying he has been better,last 2 games everyone been shit apart from the defence and I thought Brereton played the best of the 3 today all poor tho 

Edited by islander200

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3 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

That is quite simply untrue. If you are going to try to defend him then at least tell the truth.

I'm not saying he set them all up but he was involved in the moves leading up to it.Im not lieing either if I'm wrong im mistaken,but I was sure he had involvement in all the moves leading to goals at Derby 

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Just now, islander200 said:

I'm not saying he set them all up but he was involved in the moves leading up to it.Im not lieing either if I'm wrong im mistaken,but I was sure he had involvement in all the moves leading to goals at Derby 

He had absolutely nothing to do with the 3rd and 4th goals.

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Just now, Ewood Ace said:

He had absolutely nothing to do with the 3rd and 4th goals.

Ok my mistake but wasn't making shit up has he been involved in 4 of the goals over the Wycombe and Derby match or 4 or 5 of the goals over the 2 game 

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When the stat man comes back on Joe h he might be able tell us but I'm sure I'd seen him involved in 4 or 5 moves that led to goals this season maybe chaddy knows?

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Just now, islander200 said:

Yeah ok you accept useless is harsh and you don't think quoting my post about Bradley Johnson and going on a rant about Brereton isn't obsessive?.IV seen you do this before with chaddy making out it's a myth when it clearly isn't.Some players get irrational negativity...even when said player plays well .You responding to mine the way you did is my case in point my quoted post had absolutely nothing to do Johnson.

And you are also making out that I'm saying Brereton is brilliant which I'm not but he was better in those 3 games than you suggest.Did you play at all? The runs Brereton was making in those games dragging players out of position etc are an important side of the game again not earth shattering,he played a part in all the goals we scored at Derby.Im just saying he has been better,last 2 games everyone been shit apart from the defence and I thought Brereton played the best of the 3 today all poor tho 

I am not saying that you are implying that Brereton is brilliant, I know you aren't.

I also disagree that Brereton was the best of the 3, I thought all 3 were equally totally ineffective to be honest.

To be honest, my comments were mainly aimed at DaveyB who said that "the fact that Ben is getting pelters and the other 2 aren’t being mentioned says more about the posters on here than it does about him." I think that until he starts contributing in front of goal, and thats not me expecting a 20 goal season, just a contribution, or really impacting on games, he will always be picked out. I also dont think that its realistic to totally eradicate the price tag from any analysis, although the standards that he is failing to meet are not that of a 7m forward. I think that there is a common implication that Brereton is unfairly picked out, I actually think that overall, our fanbase has been patient with him considering how poor his Rovers career has been to date.

You did put:

"I find it pretty pathetic your obsession with Brereton, he didn't put the 7 million price tag on his head, didn't force Mowbray to pay it, as far as I'm aware he has never bigged himself up but this season at least he has been trying.And whatever you say he did play well in the first 3 games, last 2 games not many have played well" 

so I mainly included your post in regards to your comment that "this season at least he has been trying" as an example of how low the benchmark is for him. I am desperate for him to succeed and indeed naturally I have on occasion seen little slithers of improvement post lockdown and got excited, perhaps prematurely. 

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21 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I would say that useless as an overall judgement is harsh. I think in 2 games he has been totally unthreatening but has done neat bits and pieces in non dangerous areas. In 4 games, he has done nothing. And in the Doncaster game, very mixed. Missed an open net, good play in the build up to the second. 

What totally unthreatining? Hitting the post led to a goal not a threat?Playing Rothwell In after a great run that led to an assist from Rothwell and goal isn't a threat?Bs

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1 hour ago, darrenrover said:

Big Sam, I'm sorry, my opinion but shove his style of football where the sun don't shine. (I'd prefer him to ToMo but make of that what you will!)

I prefer him too. Way better manager, but still as pig ignorant as Mowbray at times.  Stuff wouldn’t be working and it was Blatantly obvious why. Eventually he’d change his selection/formation to what the fans wanted(clued up ones, not happy clappers etc.) and we’d do much better.  Big Sam wouldn’t have signed Gallagher though, as he would have known he’s weak and shit in the air(and on the ground).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Dan

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1 hour ago, islander200 said:

Buckley looked overawed today and a little out of his depth

iv seen glimpses with my own eyes I think he has something.

Like what?  What is this something?  To me he, lacks pace, lacks strength, lacks power, lacks aerial ability and lacks shots/goals and doesn'tgo past people....so, what is the something apart  from his sideways academy football passes where the result doesn't matter?

Edited by Sparks Rover

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