The Sun - And Its Pile Of **** Apology.

[Paul]

theno - Of course there were equally great or greater miscarriages of justice - which is your phrase, and I'm not sure it's the right one but we know what we are talking about - during the second world war. Millions of Poles, Ukranians, Jews, Russians and other nationalities stand as testament to those who suffered outrageous attrocities. We do NOT forget those people, we remember the dead of two world wars every year. The perpetrators of those outrages were brought to justice whenever possible.

The people of Liverpool simply want justice for those who died at Hillsborough.

There's a man who lives in the the south of England whose daughter was murdered in Africa some years ago - Kenya I think. I can't remember his or her name. Since the day she died that man has fought for justice, to see those who murdered his daughter brought to justice. The Kenyan authorities and, I understand, the British authorities were prepared to let things be shoved under the carpet. Do we criticise him? No. I've no doubt the Sun and all the trash red tops had banner headlines praising his efforts. Perhaps he should be told it's time to forget, dead daughter, oh come on worse things happened in world War 2.

I hope Liverpool fans keep the candles burning for the Hillsborough dead and I hope they keep reminding us of the tragedy. As for the Sun and Murdoch - they publish nothing but sensational garbage. Wayne Rooney should have known better. He may be a kid, but he's born and bred Liverpudlian and I doubt there's any 18 year old on Merseyside that doesn't understand Hillsborough and the Sun. But for £250,000 he's prepared to tell the world how deeply he loves his girlfriend and his dog - vomit inducing.

These are newspapers that find it necessary to publish photographs of women's gussets to increase circulation. We are epxected to take them seriously or believe any apology - words are cheap.

[broadsword]

Julie Ward is the person you're thinking of Paul.

[den]

Millions of Poles, Ukranians, Jews, Russians and other nationalities stand as testament to those who suffered outrageous attrocities

Including British POW's in the far east. Not that that has any bearing to your post. Just wanted to mention it.

[broadsword]

Thenodrog's just on a wind-up, he's always doing it.

[Manchester Blue]

Paul I think that's an excellent post and probably explains the difference in the situations much better than I did. I don't want to keep harping on this thread and I think I've said much of what I wanted. It's good to see that a number of other posters appreciate that this issue is so much more than just a Liverpool or a Merseyside thing.

I know that many of the sentiments are appreciated by those who have fought so hard for justice and I just wish those who dismiss that fight, whether deliberately or not, would just think how they would feel in the circumstances.

[thenodrog]

There's a man who lives in the the south of England whose daughter was murdered in Africa some years ago - Kenya I think.

Paul lets not get on about worldwide atrocities or whatever. My point was that there would have been many merseysiders in the years following WW2 that would never ever have bought a German car or product because they had witnessed the loss of many of their family /freinds etc, BUT there are plenty of German cars there now.......obviously bought by people who were not alive during the war. Time will heal most wounds if it is allowed to, but this constant regurgitating of the campaign against some second rate rag that got it's editing wrong big style is imo doing no good whatsoever.

Btw your comparison is somewhat different to the facts. Hilsborough was the result of mistakes / negligence / irresponsibility / complacency / touts or whatever mainly by ordinary blokes. It was hardly premeditated murder was it?.

[colin]

Thenodrog's just on a wind-up, he's always doing it.

Mr Bryan,

You're thinking of Jim. He does wind-ups. Rather well IMHO.

Mr Colin

[broadsword]

Mr C:

Agreed, Mr Jim is peerless, however thenodrog isn't bad himself. Can you really take his comments on here seriously? Shurely he's taking the pish?

Cheers.

Mr B.

[Paul]

thenodrog

Paul lets not get on about worldwide atrocities or whatever. My point was that there would have been many merseysiders in the years following WW2 that would never ever have bought a German car or product because they had witnessed the loss of many of their family /freinds etc,

Quite agree about the world wide attrocities bit, sorry if my post sounded a bit abrasive, it wan't meant to.

Your point about WW2 and German cars etc. is very valid. Time my heal but it doesn't always allow forgivenes. For those of us alive now buying a German car is no problem and I understand the point. My father-in-law happens to be Ukranian and was taken by the Nazis, aged 15, to Germany. Later the Russians moved his entire village hundreds of miles and relocated others all over the Ukraine. When my eldest son went on an exchange to Germany and we had a German student in our house my father-in-law was horrified. He will not tolerate Germans or Russians - probably illogical to all of us.

The point being, yes, time has healed but it does not necessarily allow one to forget or forgive. It takes a great deal to forgive, so I can understand, a little, the Liverpool view.

[thenodrog]

Thank you for your courteous and reasoned reply Paul. For a time this thread had degenerated to the level of the Mr Men childrens tv programme.

BTW Anybody care to suggest the full names for Mr C and Mr B?

PS the first one is easy!

Edited July 12, 2004 by thenodrog

[tashor]

TO ME......

Mr Bryan,

You're thinking of Jim. He does wind-ups. Rather well IMHO.

Mr Colin

TO YOU.......

Mr C:

Agreed, Mr Jim is peerless, however thenodrog isn't bad himself. Can you really take his comments on here seriously? Shurely he's taking the pish?

Cheers.

Mr B.

The Chuckle Brothers - don't you just lurve 'em

[colin]

Thank you for your courteous and reasoned replyPaul. For a time this thread had degenerated to the level of the Mr Men childrens tv programme.

BTW Anybody care to suggest the full names for Mr C and Mr B?

PS the first one is easy!

Marvellous

[mrsjansen]

Hello pplp I'm back.

Just a few things I would like to point out from this very emotive and sensative topic.

1) If no one on Merseyside reads the sun how did they know Wyne Ronney was in it in the first place?

2) No one should be villified for reading the paper nor should they be congratulated for not, every one has a right to fee speech, and therefore can read what ever paper they feel like reading.

3)I didn't know anybody that died at Hillsborough, but, no football fan anywhere in this world will ever forget them.

4) To all the Liverpool fans that come on this board, please don't continue to yurn your grief into an obsession in this vendetta you have against the newspaper. Not one person was to blame, will you never go to South Yorkshire again because you feel the police didn't do a good job. Will you never go to Hillsbourough, because the memorial isn't what you would have hoped for. Will you never go to Nottingham because at the time the Forrest fans thought it was a pitch invasion?

To everyone concerned may the 96 who lost their lives Rest In Peace.

Never to be forgotten.

[Ste B]

Tonight on BBC2 is a program covering the Suns apology

<<< CLICK HERE >>>

I've seen a couple of clips today, and one of the things it covers is that the Sun wasn't the only paper to run with such stories on that day.

[mjs]

It really is time for people to move on.

[adopted scouser]

The guy from the sun was on North West tonight in a live link up with a representative from the HJC.

He offered to sit down with HJC reps to discuss some way forward and was totally stonewalled.

16 years ago and there is still no dialogue. The same headlines were run in the Daily Star and to a lesser extent in the Express, Mail and Times.

Why won't the two sides talk to each other ?

[youandwhosearmy]

if the scousers hadnt caused such an uproar about the whole thing, the sun wouldnt have gave a flying .......

everyone invloved should move on

[Al]

I have never forgiven the Sun for their summer long campaign to get Shearer transferred to Scumchester. Deep hurt is never forgiven and I still boycott the despicable rag.

Keep up your ban Scousers I am right behind you.

[PABBY]

The S*n wasn't alone on that front, Al.

The Mirror even printed the fax number of Shearer's holiday hotel so that ManUre fans could try and persuade him to jump ship.

I've never bought a red top since.

[FourLaneBlue]

The Mirror has printed anti-Rovers stories for years and I've never understood why. The first time I noticed it for certain was at the end of the 1993/94 season when they printed a two-page artice which ran something like "80 million spent - and nothing to show for it". Glorying in our inability to beat United to the title. Can't remember where they got the 80 million from at that stage but the piece was a general attack on Rovers having the audacity to hope to challenge the aristocratic lords of Old Trafford through such unseemly fiscal measures.

Since then The Mirror has been harsh on Rovers so many times I have lost count long ago. Thing is...I have no idea why. They surely have a decent circulation in Blackburn as a Labour stronghold. Why are they usually more harsh on Rovers than other papers?

[blue phil]

They surely have a decent circulation in Blackburn as a Labour stronghold.

That presumes that Labour voters in Blackburn buy newspapers for their political content , and that the Mirror is representative of these voters .

Unfortunately the campaigning days of the Mirror when "proper" journalists like Paul Foot were employed are long , long gone .

The Asian Image has a large circulation round these parts , I've heard , probably because it's cheapish - well , free actually .... and they only mention the Rovers because we sponsor the rag ....

Back to the Sun.....

[Al]

I never buy the Mirror either but the topic was the Sun and I don't want to get a reprimand from Flopsy.

[andy82]

right behind the scousers here..

On the Rooney front as well. The peple of Liverpool have had to suffer stereotyping for years, and now the most talked about scouser in the country is of that stereotype. A bit of sensitivity please Wayne.

Also a warning - this sort of disaster will be repeated again soon - maybe not within footballing circles- but the attitude of the police force when goups of people come together is, in my view, appaulling.

[Al]

Please don't take offence guys but I see it so often and it's beginning to get on my nerves.

It is spelt 'appalling' not 'appaulling' or 'appauling'.

I normally don't comment on spelling because I am not perfect myself but that one comes up so often that I am reaching screaming point.

Sorry but I needed to say it.

[jim mk2]

Please don't take offence guys but I see it so often and it's beginning to get on my nerves.

It is spelt 'appalling' not 'appaulling' or 'appauling'.

I normally don't comment on spelling because I am not perfect myself but that one comes up so often that I am reaching screaming point.

Sorry but I needed to say it.

Good for you sir.

Laziness and ignorance is not an egscuse for paw speling.

How can you tel I gru up reding the Grauniad ?