Our over reliance on Graham is for 2 reasons really. One is he really good and what he does. He has a ton of experience and he uses it really well. So many tricks of the trade he has aquired over the years, with little nudges here and there to buy a yard The 2nd is where we need to improve. We struggle to pass through the lines effectivley. Evans and smallwood are limited with their passing and cant play on the half turn and take the ball in traffic. As a result we are to predictable most of the time and are forced to go direct to Graham to get Dack in the game in the final third. I we could improve on evans and smallwood, players like armstrong and bereton would be way more effective. We saw it in the game against carlise where we passed through the lines a lot better how effecive armstrong and dack can be. This was obviously lesser opposition making it easier. The flip sides of that are the players that gave us that going forward left us wide open at times going the other way. Thats the trouble at this level, players tend to be good at one and not the other. The complete midfield players that are great both ways are playing in the premier league. Hopefully some of these players like reed and davenport can step up and give us a lift in that area. If they do we take a step up imo and become less reliant on DG. Until then he is key to everything we do

Brockhall is probably 20-30 minute drive from Ewood, on the other side of Blackburn. Not an easy place to find unless you have directions or are familiar with the area as it isn't signposted well from the nearby A59. Rovers own 2 sites in Brockhall village. The older site is at 'the bottom' e.g. you go through the village gates through the housing and down a hill. This is today the 'academy' where the juniors and scholars are based and Rovers even own or used to own a few houses down there for the younger lads to live in. This site is actually the largest in area but the building is smaller. The 1st team used this facility up until Mark Hughes was manager when he decided to switch them. The newer site is at the 'top' and can be seen when driving into the village from the main road. It is less well hidden and whilst this was originally designed as the academy is now the senior training centre. This is where the first team are based with the U23s and usually is where the press conferences take place and players new to the club have their photos taken. The building here is bigger and most importantly features an indoor pitch and things like a swimming pool and canteen. Quite an impressive facility I would think by most standards even now at 20 years old. However many clubs have caught up over the last 10-20 years as really we've stood still in terms of investment into our facilities whilst other clubs have spent millions developing new purpose built facilities. The likes of Brighton, Southampton, Wolves etc. have by many accounts superb facilities too. It is interesting though that the likes of Preston, Burnley and Wigan are still talking about spending money on new facilities and lag way behind us in standard. You can see the two sites on google maps if you click on satellite view and search Brockhall Village. The senior centre is to the south of the village where the large white building is, the academy is to the north of the village where the pitches are roughly in a hexagonal layout. One thing I've always been amazed by is how hidden the senior training centre is from afar. The building is a huge white metal thing that should be visible for miles around in the middle of the Ribble Valley yet whenever I go somewhere that way like Hurst Green or Salesbury you can't see it. Must have been part of the planning to keep it hidden away. I suspect the club would like to combine the two sites into one but I honestly can't see how this would be feasible on either of the current sites. Neither is big enough for everything that we need with a Category A academy. We would probably have to move elsewhere onto a new purpose built all in one site for that to happen, though I could see the benefits in terms of managing less sites.

Another possibly corrupt arseshole, it really is no wonder he ended up here. I live for the day when something finally turns up on the likes of Anderson and Kean.

Mowbray in the LT saying we only have one creative player whereas Derby had three or four. Is that not why we brought in Rothwell and Palmer? It must make them feel good when they read that ? https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16891430.tony-mowbray-wants-rovers-to-improve-in-possession/?ref=mac

But whittingham only singed here becasue it was a 2 year deal. Without that 2nd year he would probably have gone elsewhere. Obviosuly with hindsight who cares, but at the time it looked a good signing and everyone seemed pretty happy with the deal. It didnt work out, we got burned a bit, but thats football. Every signing is a risk one way or another

Poor signings. Even Alistair Campbell couldn't spin them into positive contributions to the promotion effort.

Been hearing their bull crap for 30 years, they were a sleeping giant and we are akin to Bury if it weren't for Jack, they had the invincibles then Sir Tom but we were nothing till Jack etc etc One of them once told me they'd be like Sunderland support wise if they had what Jack gave Rovers ! Thankfully just like Burnley all their wind and piss from back in the day has proven to be just that. They are no bigger nor better than Blackpool without the recent Oyston drama.

The people who seem to be most critical of his signing have openly admitted they had'nt heard of him prior to him joining thats who my posts are aimed at of course if someone has watched him a few times and they have the opinion he is a poor signing then fair enough. But In my opinion nobody can give a valid opinion on a player if they have only watched him in less than an hours action being played out of position and clearly lacking match action, it is unfair. Like i said i dont know wether he will be a good signing or not but i wouldnt call him out one way or the other after only watching him for less than an hour. From what i seen of him, has some pace, a lovely first touch, decent movement. In time i do believe he will be capable of taking Danny Graham's place and play as a target man.He needs some time to adjust and learn to play that role though Mowbray has said it will take 2 or 3 windows to have the squad he feels can put in a challenge for promotion. We have just come up from league one,we have had a steady start, and although id like us challenging for a play off spot finishing in the top half is more realistic and would be a good first season back in the Championship.

It’s interesting that you have actually seen him live a couple of times and feel OK to voice your opinion. That’s great, I’m all for that. It would be good if you could expand a little on him as a player. So why shouldn’t posters on here who have also seen him live a couple of times and possibly on TV as well give their opinions? I don’t get it. They might be right about him (or any other player) or they might be wrong. Some people just don’t want to read what they believe are negative viewpoints of a player. I think all opinions on football matters are good and therefore positive in that sense, whether they’re right or wrong.

Less than a month after signing someone you’re “starting to question”.. because we chose the older more established one in a couple of games? Signing a young lad is “strange” because we don’t have the time to wait for them to develop? That doesn’t even make sense. You’re speaking as if we didn’t sign anyone else in that respect. We’ve accrued several young potential players to add to our academy group. Nothing strange about that to me, it’s called forward planning. Out of position? What part of the “27 minutes” (maybe a bit more, but sheesh) has told you he has a definite role and position in our tactics/squad? Why didn’t we sign someone else? Again, maybe give the lad at least 1 start before we seek to pay off his contract and sign someone else. I also don’t buy that the fee was what people think. I reckon much of it is in instalments and his wage would’ve been considerably cheaper than signing someone like Bamford, Baldock or Bodvarsson!

We need to get every last minute that he can give us. He is still crucial at his age. Like I said, is there much difference between half an hour at the end or 60 minutes and taking him off, if he cant do any more? So you think 9 players played well and 2 were solely to blame for being outplayed? Fair enough, but Swansea didnt score so im not sure how you can justify replicating their approach. My apologies, brilliant team. And I hope the irony of you pointing out spelling errors isnt lost on you.

'There's a lot more to argue about this time.....but I tried my best! An assessment of player performance v Derby Each player was judged on the following criteria: Instance of excellent play * Instance of decent/good play * Instance of disappointing/poor play * Instance of terrible play * E&OE Ratings Raya *** **** ** Nyambe * ********** **** * Lenihan **************** '***** ** Williams ** *********** ***** Bell * ******* ****** *** Smallwood ********* ********** * Evans ** ********** ********* Conway(31) ** **** Dack * ****** *** ** Palmer(51) * ****** ********** Armstrong(63) ** ** **** Graham(31) * *********** ** * Bennett(51) * ** Reed(63) *** Highlights and Lowlights (A justification for the main ratings above) 5. Rovers looking OK in the first 5 minutes but now Raya decides to take one touch too many on Williams’ backpass as Nugent closes in. His panicky clearance goes to a Derby man but he can’t make the most of it. 9. A Rovers attack breaks down and Derby surge forward. Bell can’t get anywhere near Derby’s Bennett and the cross comes in. Lenihan is in no man’s land and Josefzoon heads wide. 10. Derby pass their way through Rovers defence…..where is Palmer? Bell has too much to do and Williams is too far from his man. Mount blasts over a glorious chance. 10. Dack scuffs a long range shot. 13. Evans slides a nice ball through for Armstrong who drives into the box. Keogh challenges and it looks like a penalty. The ref disagrees. 14. A lovely long ball cuts through the entire Rovers defence to Nugent. Raya makes the save but Nugent was offside anyway. 16. Nyambe’s throw is too short and Raya is out of his box as Nugent runs in. Raya miskicks into the crowd. 19. Terrible free kick by Raya goes for a Derby goal kick! 20. Good crunching tackle from Williams breaks up a fluid Derby attack. 24. Excellent challenge by Palmer wins Rovers a goal kick. (don’t do that in the box too often Casey!) 25. Evans and Smallwood lose the midfield battle; Mount’s shot from distance is deflected over the bar. The corner is missed by everyone and the ball falls in front of goal. Lenihan and Williams both get in good challenges and Palmer hoofs it upfield. 26. Nyambe is done by the winger and the cross comes in, Bell heads into the D to Mount who’s shot is deflected for another corner! In it comes and Tomori running in at speed gets about a foot higher than anyone else…….but the ball skims off his head. The rebound comes back to him and he performs a bicycle kick from about 3m out. The ball hits Evans on the line and Williams lunges in to prevent the goal. Total panic stations! It’s interesting to re-read the first line of the paragraph to see how it all started! 29. Bell and Williams are taken apart in another attack as Bogle runs into the box but his shot is well saved by Raya. Conway presents the ball to Derby and they come again. The shot comes in and hits Williams’ backside, more panic and the ball is cleared long to Armstrong but, of course, holding up the ball is not his game! Here they come again! 30. it’s pretty hard to apportion blame each time as Rovers are all at sea. Bell is done again and Raya tries to take the ball but slides out of his box and has to release! As he hares back to goal, he flings himself horizontal to make another save! 31. When the ball goes out, Graham comes on for Conway. Palmer fails to get in a challenge as Bogle hits one from outside the box. Raya saves. 40. A bit quieter now but Bennett runs straight through midfield (Smallwood and Evans had both pushed higher into Derby’s half) and launches a shot that Raya helps round the post. 42. Bell is dispossessed on the wing but the dangerous attack fizzles out. 45. Miscontrol by Smallwood leads to another Derby attack but the cross is poor. 46. Smallwood stands off and the cross comes in, Bell heads clear. 46. Smallwood, Graham and Dack conspire to allow Derby in again! 47 Yet another poor pass from Evans. Bell is dispossessed again on the wing. Palmer clatters the Derby man for a foul. 48. Poor clearance by Lenihan ends up with Smallwood fouling the Derby man 25+m out from goal. Here we go again! The wall looks good but Mount smashes the ball over it and hits the bar. Raya was beaten. Nyambe does well to scramble the ball clear and win a throw in in the Derby half. 55. Bell is rolled by the Derby man but his shot is poor. 58. A hopeful long ball from Lenihan finds Graham who nods it into Dack’s path as he runs into the box. He takes it round the goalie but he’s forced wide and his shot hits the side netting. He usually scores them! 59. A lovely ball from Armstrong sends Evans into the box but his shot is very ordinary. 60. A nice ball from Dack to Armstrong on the edge of the box…..just offside! 61. More neat play from Derby and Lenihan intercepts well inside the box. 62. Good grief! Armstrong leaves the winger unmarked, he turns the ball in towards goal. Lenihan can’t get there, Williams tries to chest it, Raya flaps, 2 Derby men throw themselves at the ball, Smallwood makes some kind of contact and the ball ends up in Raya’s arms! 63. Bell is done again by the Derby man but Williams flies in to block his shot. 65. Smallwood’s pass is short allowing Derby to charge towards goal. The cross is cut out by Lenihan. 69. Awful pass by Graham sets up the Derby man for a long shot on goal…….weak effort. 71. A Graham and Dack interaction allows Graham a shot on goal but it’s weak. 72. Some neat interplay between Reed and Nyambe sends Reed into the box but his cross is blocked. 74. Rubbish free kick by Dack. 76. Nyambe does well to hold off the newly arrived Wilson in the box. Wilson dives claiming a penalty! 86. Nyambe and Williams fail to deal with Mount's long ball forwards. The ball comes back to Mount and his shot is a metre wide. Eventually the ball reaches Elliot Bennett who unleashes a shot from 30m……..just past the left post! 87. Poor pass by Lenihan invites more pressure. Fortunately Evans makes a great intervention.

You mean like suggesting they had a “very poor” game? Id call anything past “uneventful” as hyperbole personally.

Back then Etuhu to me was one of the least to annoy me among the likes of Orr and Murphy but even he shows the types that we have had through this football club in recent years. Best, Stokes and Duffy - I am looking at you too!

Incentivised deals should be given to older signings based on appearances. Two year deals to aging, unfit players are a waste of money.

I suppose the idea of handing out the two year deals is to give ageing players a bit of stability and hope they put shifts in when required to show their appreciation. Both were probably signed as back up when maybe they could have had one year deals elsewhere and maybe more football. Both turned out pointless in the end but I think we are moving away from that kind of thing now looking at the age of the defence the other night and all the defensive/centre mids used. Experienced back up doesn't come cheap even lower down the ladder and similar from this league would want two year deals on 10 grand plus per week. The future is youth blended with ready made players who might cost a bit but will come in and do you a job straight away and last 3 or 4 years imo.

What has Rhodes done since he left here? You think Rhodes would be good playing up front on his own in this side? Like i said in the Brereton thread until he has played a number of games in his position then none of us know wether he will turn out to be a good signing or not. But i am certain that Rhodes couldnt play in this side,the ball would be coming back at us all day long.He cant hold a ball up,bring others into play. Given the chances he can score and has decent movement in the box but we don't create enough chances in the box to take advantage of the only decent attributes Rhodes has and hasn't scored goals consistently since he was here so not sure why anyone would want him back to be honest

Wasn't aimed specifically at you, although it seems as though we're of similar opinions of Armstrong. Of course if we had more creativity than Dack, or better retention of the ball - leading to more creativity - perhaps Armstrong's limitations would be less evident/problematic. If a couple of players were capable of sliding it through for him, emphasising his strengths, I'd imagine his performances would increase a lot. Similarly for Evans and Smallwood on that point. Had they a different partner capable of driving forward or passing (as many people including me have said), their weaknesses would be a lot less problematic for the team. Perhaps TM should be focussing on this when working out his best 11.

In a way I can understand Mowbray slowly bringing Brereton into the team. Probably good as well because some fans are freaking out over 30 minutes he played on the wing, can only imagine the meltdown if he plays upfront and has a poor game. All the football message board managers will be on saying we shouldn't have signed him. Having never seen him kick a ball in a game before or in training. Lets judge a guys entire past and future potential on a few minutes ?

I don't think anyone is 'writing him off' just yet, they're just commenting on what they've seen so far. I've only seen him for half an hour against Villa and there was nothing that concerned me to be honest. He'll need time to bed in to a new team, adapt to new team-mates, a new area etc. It's a lot of change to take in all at once. To me anyway, writing him off would be saying 'he's useless', 'a terrible signing' etc. As far as I can see, all people have posted about is based what they've seen so far. The key words being 'SO FAR'.

He isnt an academy recruit Tyrone,he played 36 times for Forest in the championship last season. You used to play didnt you?Then surely you can appreciate it will take a bit of time for Brereton to settle.He hadn't been involved with Forest this season so how can you expect him to have full match sharpness when he hasnt been playing. I find it absolutely ridiculous that people are writing off Brereton after a max hour's playing time for us

30 minutes, 30 minutes......The 19 year old has played for 30 minutes. My god there will be a meltdown if he starts and has a poor game Bogvarsson has like 14 goals in 80 games. He looked clumsy to me when we played them. Granted he did finish his 2 gifts well, but he won't get many goals on a plate like that. I would think we have a solid Championship squad. Our results and performances so far , though mixed, would back that up.

A real shame,my heart bleeds. A bitter and jealous club and fans.

Well 10 other players turned up week in, week out and the fans decided that's Williams was the best player over the full season. I'd be pretty proud of that if I was him.

That's all anybody is saying. Nobody has written him off. Night night!

The previous season he made 18 appearances so its actually over 50 Not his Dad no or any relation just know a player when i see one

Harrison Reed is a talent but we will wait and see. Said Tony. Wait and see for what. It's comments like that I don't understand. He says we need to improve in quality and may need the transfer market to do it, yet has a new signing with the quality but he's waiting and seeing. What is he waiting for exactly.

It's not easy but how many people would say throwing £6m at an unproven 19 year old is the right way to go when we have pretty much a League 1 squad and other areas of the team to strengthen. I'd say if anything Mowbray has made his job a heck of a lot harder as Brereton has to work, for that money it can't not. He's not dealing with reasonable people, he's dealing with Venkys who will want some form of return on that investment. More than likely that deal means we're looking through the Jan transfer window in vain too. I can't think of anyone to replace Graham because I've not really thought about it. It doesn't take a football genius to see how we're going to struggle without someone to step in for Graham, someone strengthening the defence, some natural width and competition for an unpredictable goalie. That £6m could have gone some way to resolving some of those issues rather than waiting for a young lad to fulfill his potential. Teams like Chelsea can do that, we can't. Every signing is a gamble, but some are bigger gambles than others. £6m on a young lad is the biggest gamble the club has taken in a long time, probably since the Rhodes transfer. And at least Rhodes was extraordinarily prolific in League 1 before he came here.

I just think a few of us are wondering how you could have come to this conclusion.

Well, I did have around 5 pints onboard by the time he was introduced

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Blackburn+Rovers+Senior+Training+Centre/@53.8247018,-2.4606358,1110m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x487b9db5491ef05b:0x7242bc3c6dfc6525!8m2!3d53.821538!4d-2.4536985

It used to be a big complex with many pitches i'm not sure if that is still the case. The youth and senior centres were just a few mins walk apart and i'm almost certain Hughes swapped them around at one point ?

Brockhall is miles away from Ewood in a rather more affluent area near Clitheroe. Depending on traffic it would take you around 30 mins or more to get from Ewood to Brockhall. Youth teams and first team I think all train there still. I had trials when I was younger and it was impressive back then but hard to remember exactly how it looked.

I think so and I reckon Mowbray had a word in his ear also. This is what I need you to do. Do it well and you're in my team

I think the season in League 1 has rejuvenated Graham, either that or playing under Mowbray. The nudges, the rolling around defenders to get in front of them, using his body(usually arse) to hold defenders off. He actually has it down to an art form. He wasn't as good at it when we were last in the Championship. He never gives center halves an easy game, competes for everything. They know he isn't the quickest, but yet he still manages to win a savage amount of ball that is played into him. I would say a young center half who relies on pace is like "how does this guy keep getting the f**** ball!" If he was 22, how much would he be worth now? I suppose what he does comes with experience and the need to change his game due to slowing down. Anyway, fair play to him because he has managed to adapt his game and make himself indispensable to our team.

With some of the previous parasitic managers I can believe it might have happened but I couldn't see Mowbray weakening the team to help a player clock up enough games to warrant an extension.

I personally doubt Mowbray would ever have seen £6 million or whatever it was on one player if that player didn't fit very strict criteria. I think the money was there to be spent only if the person it was being spent on was a sound financial investment highly likely to deliver a return. People say we could have spent £3 million on 2 proven ready made players but the problem there is that the wages would have been much higher and Venkys probably wouldn't have sanctioned it. I'm starting to look at the Brereton signing as the modern day Rhodes. Someone somewhere at Venkys end agreed to chuck a large amount in extra on one player, in theory we might have been better spreading that across 3 or 4 new players rather than bringing in loans but I very much doubt, as with Rhodes, that money was available to spread across a few players.

I'll get the Stoke one submitted tonight

Posted this before but I'll never forget in the 90's seeing North End fans coming to Ewood to watch Rovers when Preston were playing away (they would stand out as they usually wore PNE scarves and hats). Couldn't quite understand why another teams fans would come to another teams ground to watch them. My Dad explained it, matter of factly. "Well, they'll probably never watch a top Premier League side in the flesh."

If they were brought in to get us out of League One why give Caddis and Whittingham two year deals? They have both been paid off after one season at a considerable cost to the club. I'd be surprised is the deals for them both hasn't cost £1.5m.

Dare I say it, I wish we could swap Brereton for Rhodes. Hope Brereton proves me wrong.

Well, nobody's been able to watch him for more than few minutes have they? Unless they are Notts Forest fans of course, in which case they'll have seen him for a handful of games. Its not a case of writing him off, I personally don't recall any poster doing that, its a case of wondering if that was the best way of spending that sort of money at this particular time. He played for us in one game, out of position and looked hopeless.I'm on the record as doubting the value of this signing before we made it but I hope he gets a chance in his real position and takes it. I suspect most feel he same.

But we NEVER do! 45 mins is our norm

That doesnt mean he can ever be an effective target man. People thought Sam Gallagher was a target man but he jumped at 5 foot 5. Breretons main asset is his pace and ability to go in behind. Think this is unfair, as @K-Hod explained much more clearly than I could! Youve in essence done the same to Armstrong on another thread, saying hes a 1 good game in 10 type, after a half season in which he was consistently excellent in the bank. People are just commenting on his performances thus far, which have been few and far between and obviously not indicative on the level of success he will or wont have here. No one is saying theyve seen enough but just like people said Reeds cameos have been promising, Rothwells cameos have been promising, Brereton against Villa was poor albeit out of position. Overall im still none the wiser about how well he will do here but for now Graham deserves the shirt more.

I agree with the 1st paragraph, but not with the 3 bad for every 1 good bit. More like 50/50. What strikes me is we are starting games with better players on the bench than in the team. Rothwell and Reed in particular, but as you say, where do they play? Palmer will eventually just fill Paynes roll in deputizing for Dack. As for Armstrong, ya, I had my doubts about him and unfortunately they seem to be founded. Not bad at 1.75 million, but he is inconsistent. I mean really inconsistent. He seems on fire in about 1 in 10 games. If Chapman wasn't made of glass, I think he would give us far more on the wing. As for Armstrong playing upfront, he did really well against Carlisle, so I think that tells its own story. I struggle to see him getting much more time upfront. He should get in the gym anyway, Dack is the same size and looks far stronger and more robust on the ball. Thats natural, but Armstrong needs to do something. Being direct without tricks gets found out by full backs very quickly at this level. Imagine if Armstrong played against us and Nyambe was marking him, I couldn't see Armstrong getting much joy there, out muscled and outpaced, without the trickery of someone like Dack or Chapman.

I'm still concerned that we still only seem to be able to perform for 45 minutes in a game.

Gone from posting ad nauseam to not posting at all. I thought it coincided with Scumley's form. Nasty piece of work that one.

He is available on saturday, its the following league game against Forest he can't play. Gavlar was thinking the Forest match was this saturday.

Or Mulgrew if you want to look at it like that. But lets be honest it was all Coyle. At least Williams got player of the season.

I was only able to watch the first half but Rodwell looked lean and fit. He talked non stop and organised the back line very well. In truth he had very little to do but looked comfortable and classy. He effortlessly robbed the lone striker of the ball a couple of times and his distribution was simple but effective. On one occasion he burst forward with the ball and looked dangerous. He is quick and still looks like a younger player. He won't have an easier time than this but I was very encouraged by him.