On your last sentence, I agree that we shouldn't automatically assume a top-6 PL team's u23s are better than ours, but it's probably fair to assume someone like Ejaria, with 27 Championship games, 14 SPL games, and 11 Europa League games under his belt, (and Reading fans appear to have liked him) is a step up on, say, Buckley (no offence to Buckley!). (Note I extend my thoughts below to all PL teams, not just the top 6...) Perhaps a distinction is needed between bringing in a loan who already has some pro experience versus someone completely raw. King (20 years old when we brought him in on loan), Cairney (21), Gestede (24, so pushing it age-wise...), and Reed (23) all arguably fall under this category, and were all relatively successful loans, no? (Palmer a noted exception! But that may have been more lack of opportunity, as he was justifiably stuck behind Dack, than lack of ability). Your other examples were very raw (and perhaps then cheaper...) Now, you obviously then need to debate on the merits of Ejaria's better ability to contribute this year versus someone like Buckley (keeping him as the counterfactual), the potential damage this could have on Buckley's development (assuming he is ready for Championship game time), the potential cost savings of bringing someone like Ejaria on loan (who we can quickly dump if he doesn't work out) versus spending a transfer fee and committing to a longer contract for another player (who may or may not work out), and the potential benefit of gaining an 'in' on him if he has a successful year with us and is keen to sign a permanent deal knowing he won't be getting in a PL team's lineup anytime soon, like Cairney or Gestede (or we deal with the disappointment of him subsequently being priced out of our budget, being recalled midseason, or subsequently earning PL game time, as was the case with Gallagher (21), Keane (21), and Lawrence (21), who did contribute while they were here, and may now be the case with Reed.) Is it just me or has this debate about signing young PL players on loan been perpetually going around in circles? The costs, risks, and potential benefits are all relatively clear... it's just a matter of ones own preference on squad building, cost management, etc. It's not an idea that should be immediately dismissed (nor should it be assumed to be a guaranteed way of getting a solid starting player for a year, but only as part of a mixed transfer strategy)

I only want a proven commanding centre half and I don't care if the entire transfer budget goes on one player.

He was decent at set pieces. Quite a good player in my eyes.

Replace one ginger ninja with another, don’t think Colback would be a terrible addition but we need two new defenders before anything else. The thought of Bell at left back and Williams/Mulgrew at centre half in the starting line up this season makes me want too projectile vomit.

Appointing Coyle was the last straw for me. I cashed in my Rovers chips that day. I had nothing more to do with the club, this site etc until they fired him. For the first time in 60 years I'd had enough. I must admit I felt a lot better for it, between them they were doing my head in.

What a dark day this was.

Close the thread and get this man a biscuit. very good post

I am old enough to remember signing John McNamee. A rubbish defence stabilised and grew around him. All the Rovers defenders except Mulgrew are young or youngish so I am not writing any of them off unlike the rest of you. Stick a rock of a central defender in with them and I would bet on them and the rest of the team transforming.

Some fragile masculinity on show here! Yeah, the women's game is not like watching Man City's men's team in full flight, but half the teams are amateurs and completely neglected by their county's FA. It's only turned full time professional in this country fairly recently, so it'll take time for it to match the men's competition in terms of skill. The games I've seen have been much more watchable than a lot of Premier league bore fests.

It's pointless Mowbray signing loan players as he usually sticks them out of position playing on the wing. When he came in we had Gallagher who he played out wide. Since then he has signed Armstrong on loan and played him wide, Payne played wide, Antonsson played wide, Palmer played wide and Reed played wide. None of those players best position was out on the wing.

We can buy all those players if we want to. That's 7 new arrivals and we've already let 3 go from last season and should be looking to offload another two or three like Smallwood. We got Dack for less than a million whilst spending 7 million on Brereton so good business can be done. The trouble is we don't seem to have any serious desire to improve on those already here. All the talk at the moment appears to be around padding out the squad, filling gaps rather than getting rid of some and getting better ones in.

Our defensive issues will still be far from solved by signing just one centre back.

When I was a kid we used to play mixed sex until 11. The lads would go off and play on full sized pitches and the girls would either join Wigan athletic ladies if they where good enough or quit. we used to play a pre season friendly against the Wigan ladies team and there wasn’t much in it. i assume the women break away at that age due to the physicality aspect as young lads get older. it got me thinking. Michael Owen against Chris samba is at a size and strength disadvantage as is Defoe and anyone trying to mark akinfenwa. They combat that with speed, skill etc. so my question is should women not be aloud to play against men due to physicality and how good would a woman have to be for her to be even considered to play in a mans team. if there was a women as good as messi, would people be for or against her playing in a mans league and how long is it going to be before this becomes a real possibility/ talking point. Not to long ago the talk of female commentators, pundits, linesman and referees would have seemed ludicrous . Now the vast majority wouldn’t even notice, especially as the younger generation haven’t known any other way (which is a good thing imo) . Emma Hayes recently got mentioned for an interview for the Chelsea job and the way the world is changing I was just curious as to what’s people thought. If a woman can hold her own against men, should or shouldn’t she be aloud to play in the men’s game ?

I'm a little uncomfortable with the concept that we are pursuing players as 'back up' to 'maybe earn a spot'. As far as I'm concerned whether you are Man City or Accy Stanley every player you bring in should be with a view to that player being good enough to play in the team regularly. Clearly Man City can afford to stockpile a collection of players who will sit around doing nothing whereas lower clubs won't be able to take such risks but the principle should be the same - any player the club pursues should be seen as good enough and as a first teamer. Only when he's in the building and training does a decision then get made on who starts games. It's a similar thing with this bizarre Brereton deal. We're supposed to believe that he was a 'project' signing and that we paid out millions of pounds on a player that was never expected to seriously contribute last season and was some sort of pet project for Mowbray or others to polish up and then presumably prove a point down the line by him being worth more than we paid. It's all just nonsense and is unheard of at other Championship clubs. You sign players who are good enough and ready to play. Enough of this back-up, squad filler, making up the numbers or development project stuff. Just sign some players who are ready to play who are better than those already here! If Mowbray was unconvinced about Bauer's capabilities and never saw him as a starting CB then he's wasted a lot of time and energy talking about him and pursuing him. It will also be shown to wrong if Bauer now plays every week for North End and is a central cog in a stronger defence than ours. I wasn't against the Downing signing given he was a regular at Boro recently but already we're seeing it - he hasn't gone to Austria with the squad so next news is he won't be ready for friendlies as he won't have had the intensive training, then next news is he'll be playing catch up fitness wise and he'll be struggling to break into the team from that point on. Seen it before.

You lot seem to like talking about it to say you’re not interested and don’t like it... I enjoy watching football, not just watching men play football. I think it would be a fantastic achievement, and I’m getting quietly confident... Need to keep concentration in a shaky defence but going forwards we’ve been electric at times. Should be a cracker of a semi whoever it’s against. 5-4 England or something daft.

Heaven forbid if England Women win their version of the World Cup. We are going to have “it’s the same as 1966” rammed down our throats for at least a week and a half until everyone forgets about women’s football again. The irony is that the England women’s team is benefiting from the vacuum caused by football no longer being shown on terrestrial TV.

This weekend heard on the radio Jill Scott is England’s most capped player. Fair enough. But the sentence finished with beating peter Shiltons record. I nearly exploded. As if stats are gender neutral. Still winding me up thinking about it. Then once I’d composed myself someone called Marta became Brazil's top goalscorer in world cups, ahead of Ronaldo and Pele. And could go past klose for all time record. It’s just not same. Take it for what it is non league amateur football but not being sexist or a misogynist...just objectively it’s shite.

Keane has fantastic on pitch leadership qualities. For those 90 minutes he led by example. Totally different skill set to manage a team and staff daily and though I’ve obviously not seen him behind closed doors, he doesn’t seem to be cut out for that in the slightest.

The first bit doesn’t really make sense regarding my point about emotional intelligence and the second part kind of illustrates what I mean. For example, how Roy Keane deals with injuries - https://talksport.com/football/421006/roy-keane-transcript-row/ He’s a dick.

Management wise, Keane and O’Neill are yesterday’s men.

O'NEILL is a busted flush and has been for years,find him an odd character tbh!

You would be making the wrong choice. Believe me

You have no idea about O'Neill now I don't think. He may have a better CV than Mowbray, but Mowbray has moved more with the times, in regards to how he deals with players ,the media and also tactically. 100% give me Mowbray any day of the week So, when I am being accused of "Irish bias" in future , please note the above.

He's not the only one.

I can confirm that we have received the next batch from Harry & once the weather takes a turn for the worst we’ll get some more entries on here... ? @OnePhilT needs to train me as well mind, so structure your expectations accordingly...?

Not many flourish in this day and age at most clubs when out on loan. These kids are on top dollar and not playing for contracts at these Premier League clubs that I think the drive and ambition to succeed for a lower club is instantly missing and below them. Again not too many success stories in the Championship ..not just at Rovers. I d rather go lower league and take a chance on them and let them earn a contract.

Why though? We might as well persevere with Davenport who is our player? If that happens then it's got Kasey Palmer written all over it again.

What you want from your goalkeeper is predictability. You need to know what he's going to do in any given situation. I don't really care about the shots that fly into the top corner just as long as your keeper isn't dropping corners on the opposing centre forward's foot.

I suppose you've blanked Murphy, Etuhu and Goulon from your mind? Don't blame you. Many would say Andrews but I think he was a similar level to Evans and Smallwood personally, just playing a league higher. He was poor but not half as poor as a lot of fans made out.

Utter feminist liberalist media claptrap. Should we include Wayne Rooney’s Under 15s and U17s goals as part of his overall record? Shilton played 13 times for England C team, taking his total to 138 games. I expect he will have some schoolboy caps too. They need to promote the women’s game, not promote it as “the game”, and stop trying to socially engineer us.

I stand corrected. Still a generation of players ago. Look - managers aren’t successful anymore by strutting about playing off their own achievements and expecting to change people to be just like them through the medium of bollockings. Name one? People are better motivated by understanding them and what makes them tick. I don’t see Roy being able to be flexible like that, and certainly not at the highest level. He’s an angry and aggressive old school football man. Those times have gone, he’ll have to adapt A LOT

Christ. What a nobhead thing to say. I agree the Rodwell situation like anything has two sides to every story but “muh depression?” Pure ignorance and stupid language around the single biggest killer of men under 45. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48279772

Thanks. It's the best I could do

You don't achieve what Roy Keane did the game by have the 'emotional intelligence of a sponge'. Take the 1999 Champions League semi final he got booked and knew he would miss the final but did he start bawling like Gascoigne in 1990? No he put in a match winning performance. That is the thing with Keane is he's a winner as was shown by his career and he expects his players to have the same ambition and standards that he did.

I always said having Keane in your team when he was in his prime was like playing with 12 when everybody else had 11. He was as good a central midfield player as I have seen.

What else can you expect when you appoint a psycho as your assistant?

I played alongside some very good strikers in my time in the amateur game. But the best of them all was a lady called Anne Smith (nee Morris). She ended up playing ‘pro’ women’s football as far as I know (30 years or more ago)

I hope so, it was making me feel really inadequate.

And he has been relegated and promoted during that time! He’ll be the longest serving soon. Arsene Mowbret.

Some turnover of managers in the Championship! Mowbray is the 4th longest serving manager at this level. 1. Neil Harris (29th April 2015 - present) 2. Lee Johnson (6th February 2016 - present) 3. Neil Warnock (5th October 2016 - present) 4. TONY MOWBRAY (22nd February 2017 - present)

This. I feel myself being critical of some of the poor skills on show by some of the women's teams and then I flick over to the Africa C Of N..... Jesus Christ some of it is pitiful. I swear every time I tune in some donkey defender or DM is trying to crack a shot from 40 yards out, which always ends up in the top tier of an empty stand. Embarrassing.

Left CB is our glaring need, followed (IMO) by a midfield partner for Travis. I know we all have our wish lists and areas we think we can improve but we can't buy an upgrade at GK, RB, CB, LB ,CM, RW and CF all in one go. Look at Fulham spending £100m+ and their team losing everything as a consequence. Rovers need a quality CB ASAP and a quality CM this window. The rest can be assessed as we go with maybe a loan or deadline day purchase. There is no sense spoiling our budget elsewhere before those two positions are sorted.

Different game but still recognisably football. Been very impressed by technical skills and some of the passing has been breathtaking- both good and awful. England v tonight's winners could go any direction including humiliating defeat and thumping victory. England can make Rovers midfield and defence look super switched on and aware but the attack when it clicks can destroy any defense in the women's game.

Mowbray speaks with forked tongue. He should be reminded of previous articles by his media team before each interview he does.

Tough question. Probably - in terms of our-and-out defending - but only because Mulgrew’s legs have gone. However, Mulgrew contributes so much from set pieces.

Holy shit, that's unreal! A one-off, sure, but five in a row? I actually struggle to believe that's humanly possible and not doctored footage. It was in his Villa days, but he shouldn't have lost much if any of that accuracy. It's different when the ball is moving, or you have to put more pace, bend on it etc, but at the very least I'd expect some good corners. Maybe not straight in like Mulgrew, though with that accuracy he should be capable of it.

There was an article in the LT a week or two ago stating the aim was no major sales of the likes of Lenihan or Dack and 5 in. Downing has come in since then so that's 4 to go according to the stated objective. I don't necessarily believe the owners are the problem in terms of landing players, Mowbray wasn't wanting for support when he lashed out 7m on a player he then barely used last summer, nor when he bid 4m for Freeman, nor in January when I was told there was a very substantial fund available if the manager wanted it. TM has also said in the past that far from having to beg for money he's had to try and keep the owners in check, so is the reason we seem to have difficulty in landing players more down to the fact the manager doesn't really want to bring in anyone new and upset the core group as per his comment in the article Stuart posted that "the most important thing is to work hard with the players you've got". Of course, if we're no nearer promotion after 3 seasons in the Championship, then FFP will probably dictate that players have to be sold to avoid going into embargo but in the meantime for the next 2 seasons you'd like to think we'd have a bit of a go and not just sleepwalk into FFP whilst rambling on about long term plans and gradual improvement etc etc.

The pages of Bauer-induced Mowbray-bashing miss one crucial aspect: when he was being chased in prior windows, we had two picked if fit CBs in Mulgrew and Lenihan, therefore Bauer was being pursued as a better 3rd CB than Downing or Williams, which sounds about his level. Fast-forward to this window where Charlie has imploded and lost his place to basically anyone. So we are after a picked if fit starter which Bauer isn’t. If he had come he would’ve been fighting Mulgrew for the 3rd spot, which I’m not sure we really need. So, thanks to Mulgrew’s rapid and unexpected demise, our needs changed between windows, and Bauer doesn’t meet those needs.

Savage was also technically a very good player. Better than most centre mids we've had. Absolutely miles ahead of Smallwood and Evans for example.

I’m just glad Woodgate has got the job there - or Mogga might have tried to sign him!