Can we have a filter that prevents posts saying ‘people on here want Rovers to lose’? Complete lazy nonsense from folk who can’t debate, ‘err well you love us losing’ , it’s playground stuff that always just derails threads. Oh and as for a ‘dying’ site. Poor stuff S8, the likes of Herbie have worked hard transforming this place with the podcasts, player archives, nostalgia threads. Perhaps you missed it on one of your regular hiatuses (yet you keep coming back, so not all bad, obviously)...

Have been feeling somewhat down since the final whistle but my grandson has just been to see me and said he was feeling upset as well. When I pointed out that play offs are all but out of reach and Pope the Burnley keeper might win the golden glove, he agreed. After a moments silence he then said does that mean they will need to make a special glove with six fingers? Now that cheered me up so I thought I would share it with you.

It’s just the same cycle. Is it any wonder crowds are dwindling? LLL = Mowbray needs to go LWD = He needs more time, he’s had injuries, yada yada These two runs sum up Mowbray’s time here: steady away and then a dreadful run, a slight recovery and then steady away for a bit. The only constant is that, no matter what, Mowbray will continue. Results don’t matter, performances don’t matter, recruitment doesn’t matter. You end up with two choices: Pack it all in as there isn’t any ambition, or just go through the motions because you support Rovers (or at least the idea/history of Rovers) and as long as they put a team out you’ll watch. The grim reality is that if you were a potential fan just joining the scene right now, you probably wouldn’t bother. I’m not even sure if we still have the hereditary effect (dad-to-lad) as a lot don’t care if their son/daughter “supports” City or Liverpool, nay they even buy them the kit! Good days like today - let’s face it, nearly beating and not losing to the team joint top of the league is a good day - are undermined by defeats against the likes of Barnsley. He has to go if we are to progress. Waiting until we are back on a downward trajectory is too late.

I agree, finding a little bit more consistency is what's needed. So does that warrant sacking TM & going back to the drawing board? IMO no it doesn't. He's improved us this season compared to last, and last season compared to the one before. It's reasonable to assume therefore (& expect) further improvement next season based on that, which is foreseeable with a returning Dack even if we just make like for like changes elsewhere to replace loanees & out of contracts. It's not guaranteed of course, nothing is. But I think sticking with TM is preferable because he has shown tangible season-on-season improvement overall. I recall last season it being said, correctly, that without Dack or Graham we'd have been down amongst the dead men due to over reliance on their goals. This season, whether enforced or through choice, we've not had either playing for over half the season, yet we're still in a better position now (places and points) than last season. That must indicate a better overall strategy in other areas, so I fail to see how that cannot be construed as improvement overall, and that's even with 2 expensive misfiring forwards. Clearly it's not sufficient improvement for some, ergo calls for a change. But I think that would be an unnecessary backward step when, overall, improvement has been achieved despite all the club's idiosyncrasies behind the scenes.

A lot of people on this board get frustrated when we lose- I know I do. But It’s unfair to say those fans, “want Rovers to lose.” Also, we can disagree on Mowbray staying or getting sacked, and still be fans of the club. But no matter what side of Mowbray you’re on, nobody can say the man doesn’t care if he loses. I had to say that. Having said it, the point won today was one of the hardest earned and most deserved point won of the season. Very proud of the manager, staff, and players.

Nah, the only manager hated by Rovers fans was Kean. Even Coyle was acknowledged to have been given a crap deal even though he was utterly inept. I see plenty of criticism for the current manager, yes, but here's the thing: it's all for actual mistakes he has made. Persevering with under performing players, poor formations, playing players out of position, his poor transfers, his unbalanced squad, his criticisms in public on certain players. These are all legitimate concerns and genuine issues with TM. Now, there is an issue as to whether his positives should be mentioned more as well. And there is definitely an argument they should. We're not useless and neither is he because of where we are. But again, whether there should be more balance doesn't mean a) fans want us to lose or b) that there aren't some serious flaws in the manager. And for the record I am more annoyed with TM than Coyle or some of the other jokers we have appointed - because he isn't a complete duffer. Coyle for example was a write off, useless, so his uselessness was expected. TM has a bit about him which is why his basic mistakes and errors are all the more frustrating. I mean how can the guy who buys Dack think Bereton us worth 7 million? How can he outthink Cardiff and Bristol but not know how to beat a team in the bottom 3? How can he be so critical of Nayambe but let Bennett play despite being horrific. How can we play a formation specifically to get the best out of Dack, yet then stuck Gally on the wing? You see, TM is a paradox and all the more irritating for it.

Agree with everything you have said. This forum has just turned into a Mowbray bashing forum now. It's got to the stage now were u genuinely believe people want us to get beat, so they can have another moan. I'm sick to death of the 12 million wasted on 2 forwards line as well. No manager gets every transfer rite. What about the 2 million spent on dack and arma. That compensates for the money spent on big Ben and gally

TM is accorded the benefit of the wider context of if we get rid his replacement would likely be worse. It's an argument I have a lot of time for given we recruit from a second rate agency. However the wider context should also be applied to how quickly we need promotion and the odds of a slow build happening being slim indeed. Dack, Armstrong, Lenihen all will be gone in the next year or two - it's the nature of football and a pattern under Vs. So a slow build isn't really that viable, and I feel we stand on the edge of another shut down resources and bust cycle. With this in mind IF we can keep the squad together next year it very much must be last chance saloon. As it is, I fear we are already drinking in it. The squad needs a fair number replacing with loans and aging stars and there's never been a more open championship where an ounce more consistency or quality and we would be a few points better off and comfortably in playoffs. Which brings us on to today's game. Another one that shows the skills and flaws of TM's Rovers in equal measure. A point against a very good standard of opposition is not to be sniffed at and shows we are a decent to good side. However we perhaps could and should have won, which would have put us solidly back in the race, but once again failed to do so. We really are a close but no cigar (wherever that phrase comes from) type of team. We clearly are nearly men and won't actually break top 6, but equally and frustratingly we aren't far away. We perhaps could and should have won today and have been in that place before. It being tantalisingly just out of reach, being just not quite good enough is what gets us so frustrated. In a way I see a lot of parallels with Bowyer. The team isn't as good but we get more bang for our bucks out of this lot. If TM was just a bit cannier at signing players maybe we'd be edging it. As it is we're nearly men and I feel we are on the edge of another bust cycle. Could coronavirus be our rescue, with a lack of buying power for clubs keeping the squad together, giving TM another chance at promotion. Perhaps. Certainly bar Tosin - admittedly a huge miss - the replacements would struggle to be worse than what we have. That said TMs record in the transfer market has not been good so it's an anxious time. I guess my theory is we will see another Bowyer cycle through, then get through a few more of our agency's rejects. Hopefully we will get another Bowyer cycle through and third time lucky - this one has the nous to get us over the finish line. That we've come kinda close with the loons in charge, a substandard structure and imo mediocre management, means it is possible. It's the hope that kills you.

Well we’ll have to see about that. Unlike seemingly everyone I really am able to change my opinion on available evidence. Thought TM was a goner this time last year when we lost a billion games on the bounce, for example. But this season, for me, we’ve been better in every department. Of course there’s things I disagree with the managers decisions/recruitment/selections but that’s football innit. Thought it was a good game today and I reckon I’m not alone in wanting to find a place to have a balanced discussion about who played well, about what happened in the game, what I think about a certain player, decision etc. It’s just constant “Mowbray X,Y,Z is shit” on here. -edit- Bit razor tongued

We need natural width, there might be isolated examples where playing wide forwards has got us a goal, for example Samuel midweek, but it doesnt work. I also think the time has come for Graham to be let go. Samuel certainly should be let go no questions asked. A ruthless approach needed with the out of contracters, even Downing has been less effective post lockdown but he is worth another year. I dont see how we will be able to do anything but add a few frees and loans to plug major positions and we of course will always allow our rivals to steal a march. The main thing we need to do with a consistent way of working. Mowbray suggested that he likes to chop and change dependant on opposition, for me that isnt condusive to consistency. Look at Leeds and West Brom, you know what you are getting from those sides, they are perfecting their styles, and it means that every time a player comes out, one comes in and it doesnt derail them, they slot in seamlessly.

? I went 8 weeks of lockdown not drinking, Rovers come back on and I'm drinking like a fish.

Mowbray will always go around in these cycles though, horrible winless runs followed by an ok run with the odd really good run thrown in there. In the end it all mounts to W1, L1, D1. More or less where we have been at this level since 2012.

We have not run out of games. Those games have already been played.

So just as Armstrong has hit a rich seam of form this season and thus become a good "money well spent" signing in his 3rd year here, couldn't that also happen with Brereton & Gallagher (I of course acknowledge that their fees were more substantial and agree that their contributions to date have been underwhelming)? I mean, we saw today a glimpse of what Gallagher can do against the side widely considered as the best in the division, and we all saw a big improvement in Brereton post-lockdown prior to his red card. It would be very typical of football for one of them to hit an Armstrong-like run of form and then for their signings not to look as shabby as they currently do, right? I mean few on here - me included - thought Armstrong would become the central figure he has become did we? Might we be talking about Brereton and / or Gallagher in similar terms in 12 months time? Let's hope so!

Lets cut the angry mob with pitchforks wanting their own team that they pay money to watch narrative as well please. I dont doubt that a select few on one side struggle to see past their argument/opinion that Mowbray should go and that isnt necessarily healthy for debate, but in the same way there are a few on the other side of the fence who defend the manager regardless or dismiss any doubts about the manager based on attitudes towards the overall running of the club or the fact that we arent massively underachieving. Mowbrays future is understandably a topic of great debate at the moment. We are amidst a run of 10 points in 10 games, below average form and we are at a juncture whereby the manager no longer has clear objectives (survival, promotion, stability) and where he has outlasted all other Championship managers, is trying to with mixed success transform us tactically and has a very mixed transfer record.

The fact you can make a convincing case for so many teams going down makes it a very exciting league. The Wigan deduction means that even with their great form they still need to perform exceptionally well to avoid the drop. Is Charlton's best players refusing to play beginning to catch up with them? Is Hulls lack of replacements for talent sold going to hurt them? Are Stoke a complete basket case of a club? Are Luton and Barnsley just too small? It's compelling stuff down there. At the other end if we don't get playoffs then any team other than Derby and their loathsome ethics in what is a swamp of morals and I'd be happy. That a club can make me disgusted even within the sewer that is football is quite impressive in a perverse way. Thing is there are a ton of teams chasing the playoffs all with a decent about. It's interesting stuff. Then there's the top. Brentford, West Brom and Leeds are excellent teams but only 2 are going up automatically. One is going to have to settle for the playoff lottery. Perhaps Fulham should be included in that number but I feel they are handicapped by their manager. So at both ends of the table there is a hell of a lot to play for and a heck of a lot of uncertainty. Tbh I think it once again proves the championship is the most exciting league out there.

Given that he's had a lot of stick this season, it's nice to say that he was excellent when he came on today. Pace, power and end product. Set up our goal and also set up the one on one for Davenport.

Think we should just sign hart and be done with it. He will have a few clangers but would be a decent champ keeper

Whilst I agree with this, Mowbray's sides haven't played with natural width for the 3.5 years he's been here, I don't see that changing now.

Don't really agree with this. Armstrong has always looked a threat if he could smooth a few kinks out of his game. A bit like Josh King you could see he has the potential. Gallagher and particularly Brereton are just not like that. They struggle to perform on a basic level game after game. I'll be delighted if they do pull it together but both look a lot closer to a Grabbi or a Best than an Armstrong or a King.

I think you know exactly what my point is. We stuck with Bowyer too long. Everyone kept harping on about stability etc. but ultimately it got us nowhere other than League One. Just like Bowyer, the fans have given Mowbray diplomatic immunity because they’re afraid of the alternative. Even though Mowbray was hired by Venky’s in the first place.

All debates about the merits of playing him wide aside, he clearly has the pace and power to make life difficult for full-backs. Good on him for making the difference today, next season we'll have to expect him to deliver a bit more frequently.

Talk about big games how’s this for a big couple of fixtures Wigan host Hull on Tuesday, with 3 games to go Wigan are 9 points ahead of Hull who occupy the last relegation spot, however if they end the season less than 12 points above the drop zone they get a 12 point deduction. A Wigan win and they’d be odds on to stay up, a hull win and it would take them to lose both and Wigan to win both their remaining games to overtake them. A draw and I still fancy Wigan to get out of it. Wigan then play Charlton next who are a point above Hull whilst Hull play Luton who are just below them!

What? I'd never post again.? See...........Mowbray has a lot to answer for. Shame on him.

I'd have no problem with one season in the Prem as painful as it would be it has the potential to properly reset the clock for this club. It really really needs that but there seems no genuine hurry or desire from above to grasp the mettle sooner rather than later. Probably because these owners personally don't need the money and loosing 10/15 mill per year through the books of VLL & BRFC seems to suit their purpose. It's a strange set up because surely they themselves or at least their money men will know how important to the actual club accounts a Prem season and following parachutes are.

The Dingles have played the same system all the time Dyche has been there. If they can they play 4-4-2 almost irrespective of the opposition. They had two up front yesterday against Liverpool away. He also knows his best 11 and when guys have to be brought in as replacements they know what the system is.

Norwich seem to have no problem with a season in the PL. We will be playing them soon enough. BBC: Farke insisted the Canaries went about the season in the right way. "From the first day after promotion our chances to survive were perhaps 5% so in 19 out of 20 cases you will go down," he added. "If you have luck and no injuries then you have a chance. When we are 100% we are competitive but when it's 96 or 97% then it sometimes looks like men against boys." "The club is able to pay for all the sins of the past. We are able to invest in our infrastructure for the long term. I was fully aware and committed for doing things this way." "Of course we're disappointed but it was the right decision for this club and I always was happy to stick to this plan."

I think hes always had a weakness in terms of attacking. Its like there is a brick wall before the final third. Even pre lockdown he rarely put in a dangerous final ball but he was more forceful breaking through and providing an overlap. I think hes always been a more defensive full back.

I like Ryan a lot but I think this is a fair assessment of where he is at present. Progressing nicely but not yet PL standard. He does seem to be playing slightly within himself post-lockdown - not in a way which is a concern but still a slight drop off. I wonder if this might have something to do with him managing his body with all the extra games. He's talked about his tendency to pick up muscle injuries in the past, maybe the extra games in a condensed period means that he wants to reduce the risk.

It’s hard not to.

Don’t drink and BRFCS pal, it’s not worth it! (Same advice goes to anyone, to be fair, not just you).

2013 was the last time a side finished 6th on less than 70 points, it was Leicester with 68. Could be even lower than that this year with the way things are going. It really was there for the taking this season, and one we'll look back on in a few years as a huge missed opportunity.

Yeah I’d had a couple of cans obviously, bit out of order that. Apologies.

Your first paragraph ignores the fact that both can be true. He can be progressing us AND be playing players out of position. Think of it the other way round - how much better than where we are now would we be if he didn't continue to make these basic mistakes. Also as commented by others and myself on here it's hard to assess what progress is due to the ambiguity of what success looks like and the uncertain but limited time frame we have before the team is dismantled. Personally I don't think we have progressed this season anything like we should have. When you compare to Souness's or Hughes third season we were perhaps at the pinnacle of that team and you feel we are still a long way from the best we could possibly be under TM. By the third year it was their team in their style and doing the best that they could do. I think we don't know our best team and aren't punching above our weight as those teams (albeit in a championship context) with the consistency you would expect after 4+ windows of shaping the team. I also have issues in terms of progress with the squad. Too many loans, too many aging stars who need replacing. It seems like the squad needs a lot of work in the summer and very little was addressed effectively last summer. Even our good buys had a limited shelf life due to loans or age. Finally in terms of context - the playoffs have been more than attainable. Just a tiny bit more consistency, beating one weaker team we have struggled against a minor improvement in form and we would be properly in the mix and in a good position. Given the circumstances of the season, we really should have capitalised on this, even with Dack's injury - an admittedly significant blow. I hope so too. Goodness knows we need it. I think my big reservations on this happening is he hasn't looked like he is nearly clicking at all, he has looked very poor on many occasions as oppose to frustrating and thirdly I really don't see the wide right experience helping him. I wouldn't lay odds on it. I grant you I didn't see Armstrong becoming what he was but the talent was clearly there. There were lots of cries of if only he were a bit more consistent he would be a huge asset, little knowing how consistent he would become. So yeah players can change but the evidence before me makes it seem unlikely. I think Gally and Ben would still be classed as mediocre signings at best if they did hit Armstrong type form. The reason I say this is 1) for the money we paid you expect an immediate contribution and we have had little. 2) the opportunity costs of not being able to spread the money round the team. And 3) even if they did well would we get more than the cost of each player? Probably not making it a very costly way to accumulate an extra million or two.

They would give themselves more kudos and balance the debate a bit if they came on after the regular poor runs. Offering their explanations and defenses of some of the head scratching selections etc. Popping up just basically slagging off regulars most of who are hardcore attenders not excused for living somewhere else only makes them look the bitter ones really. In truth most Rovers fans sit middle ground with Mowbray and it's a reflection on him and his team. Have to say iv'e seen more anger and frustration on other usually pro TM platforms since resumption though. More and more question his methods and signings but for balance to get two good back to back efforts recently after looking dead in the water shows he still has the players and can motivate them. Still that illuminates the question why it goes missing too often when it matters.

Decent performance against a good team. This league is incredible, so close, unpredictable results, the most competitive league in the world!! Walton pulled off a few decent save but I do not believe he is the long term answer. JRC is benefitting from playing at this level and I hope he can fill the LB void at the club. Travis was excellent again and is first on my team sheet every week. Armo had one of his invisible games. I have enjoyed the last two performances as much as i disliked the previous two. Who knows what will happen over the next few games, surely that's how football should be.

Think Davenport is a ready made replacement for the outgoing Stew Downing. He looks class. How he hasn't started games is beyond me.

Facts my friend seeing as you bring that up... Armstrong 1.75 plus add ons rising to c 3 million, 4 year deal c 15k pwk Steve Waggot himself has pointed out we are sailing close to the FFP wind and piss so i don't know where you get the guessing from. If we have nothing to spend next season the 12 million on BB & Gallagher looks even worse business. Only if they have good seasons and it starts looking recoupable if needed can it be called - not bad. A 14 million strike force in this lge should have you knocking on the door it should even cope with the loss of one of them. I do agree some of the TM bashing goes overboard one or two of us try to balance it a bit....sometimes.

Not sure it does compensate for so many reasons. One is to do with resources and risk - if a 2 million signing doesn't work out, one portion of the budget has gone wrong. When 5-7 million is wasted that's your whole budget. In other words we could gamble in two or three £2 million ish signings and the risks are devolved and reduced by two thirds. The potential benefits are multiplied by three as well if all come off. As it is the lost opportunity costs of being able to buy a balanced squad on top of the flops of Gally and Ben is huge and something that has hurt us just as much as their non performances. There's also the issues of Armstrong costing more than you say and only having become very good in the last 6 months. Well worth persevering with and plenty of potential - and am loving his form - but equally let's not pretend we have had 3 years of excellent form out of him. Not criticising the move but just pointing out another reason why they don't balance out. Oh then there's the minor detail of the 12 million putting us in danger of FFP/allowing this to become an excuse for cutting the budget. So yeah on a host of fronts people are quite rightly concerned by the outlay on strikers, and it cannot simply be washed away with well Dack and Armstrong are good signings. More to the point what pees me off about your post is that Rovers fans genuinely want us to lose. Yeah right! I've yet to find a Rovers fan who wants us to lose. Criticising the manager is not the same as wanting the team to lose. Nor is not rating the manager. The two things are mutually exclusive and the idea that any Rovers fan would be gutted if we snuck into the playoffs and went up is horse manure. More like you can't cope with different opinions. It must be easier if you tell yourself those nasty critics want us to lose, but it just doesn't wash or ring true at all.

They'll have cost more than that by now Armas fee was set to rise to 3 million alone. two wrongs don't make a right and whilst it's true to say they never get it all right the critics for the 12 million is perfectly justified. Managers live and die by results and their big signings. The whole clubs financial health could rest on that and to look at it another way if they recoup that money from the sales of Dack & AA well we are no better off are we. Only if they all click on the pitch are we better off.

Saying he’s the most successful manager since Big Sam is like saying he’s the tallest midget in the room. I seem to remember a parallel roughly five years ago, when similar posters wanted to stick with a “stable” manager. How did that turn out?

Mad second half. Could’ve won it. WBA are a great side for this level and although we rode our luck at times, savvy changes and no little grit meant we were worth the point. Literally anyone else in the midfield/forward positions other than Davenport has that chance then we are talking about a masterclass smash and grab. Feel for the lad tbh. Feel at odds to a lot on here that can’t see how improved we are, and how we are close to being a very good side. Gallagher had a good impact off the bench, and Rothwell is doing that thing he did last year where I thought we had a secret weapon that on his day could be one of the best players in the league. Stop frustrating us Joe! Travis yet again makes me want to be female so I can bear his children, Downing looked weary and off it a bit, and I hope it wasn’t tactical to take RyNy off for Bennett because once again he was frighteningly dogger at RB. Good result, entertaining game. Have a good night chaps!

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???. Palace interested in Gally. You post some guff but that takes the biscuit pal.

Palace interested in Gally? I'd be surprised but fingers crossed.

The most important thing about today I think is the result - along with Cardiff - have cemented Mowbray in the job. We lost three on the spin before cardiff and if we had gone on to lose the last two games as well Mowbray could have been potted. However 2 good results and there is no doubt he will be here for next season. So question is how do we kick on? We've got to find 5 quality first team players minimum. Principally a goal keeper, a centre back, a left back, a left winger, a striker who actually scores goals. We need to sell Brereton and figure out what to do with Gallagher. We also need to balance the squad out with much better cover. We have 4 number 10s (Dack, Holtby, Rothwell, Buckley) and 5 holding players (Travis, Evans, Johnson, Davenport, Smallwood) in the squad but only 3 centrebacks (2 if you exclude Tosin on loan) and one left and one right back. Which is absolutely crackers. We can't go into next season with wingers playing at full back and strikers on the wing. Big big decisions required.

we all know footballers ar`nt the brightest of people so burdening them with numerous formations is a bit silly,get them to learn how to play at home and away,keep it simple and let the opposition worry about us not us worry about them,from the great liverpool and forest sides of the 70`s and 80`s to fergies utd domination,they played the same way every week no matter who the opposition was

Said all along that Gallagher is an old school forward or at least has some attributes for it. 442 with a decent striker and let him do the graft like Newell did for Speedie then Shearer. Ideal for that you don't have to be the best technician in the world just graft. Pray 442 comes back in fashion soon although god knows what TMs interpretation of it would be.

We didn’t lose it here with davenport we lost it at Wigan and Barnsley. This was a big chance to get out. Could be worse I suppose. Fuck it let’s get drunk.

I would think Big Sam would ..