Yes we finally got about an hour with him towards the end of the trip. The good guys in the club told us not to hold back (Ironically that became Paul Hunts undoing) . I along with others told him directly that he had a chance to turn it around but the fans were fully against the manager who was taking us down. I try not to comment on the owners too much as I never want to come across as an apologist but I am one of those that believe they are to blame but were mere puppets for people with sinister intentions. You only have to look at Balaji’s other enterprises, Bala Star I think was his Bollywood company, he threw flash parties with big celebrities etc, he’s as flash as they come and I think was seen as an easy target. When we went to Pune there was obvious shoots for Rovers to be big and they wanted it to be a success, adverts everywhere about ‘India’s premier league team’ the academy they set up and even a weekly tv show about us. Sadly when we were there a certain cigar smoking agent was as well, always there controlling things, making sure nobody got close enough to Steve Kean. Watching a youth tournament there I did an interview with DNA which is the local paper, I said how Steve Kean had to go and listed some replacements, Martin O’Neil was the popular choice at the time. The reporter walked away and we spotted our old friend and publicist intercept him, take his pad and cross out lots of what was said, the interview never reached the paper however one that Glenn did was there with quotes that weren’t said.

Pretty sure they have played together! We obviously missed Dack, anyone would miss his talent and energy, think it’s fair to say Armstrong thrives in his absence though in a way we haven’t seen as much pre Dack injury Ps tin hat time but as much as Venkys put us in this scenario I’m glad they are stupid enough to keep paying the bills, the wider world is scary right now and unless there’s the perfect buyer in waiting the alternatives are worrying

Remember when we had a side of international captains? Friedel, Tugay, Mokoena, Savage, Samba, Nelsen, Pedersen, Neill all captained their international sides at some point which is pretty incredible. Then include the likes of Bellamy, Dickov, Kuqi, Todd, Warnock, Reid, and others that escape me and you've got a team full of real hard bastards all over the pitch!

I think you are set for disappointment if you expect that.

One could argue that being in the Championship is about where we rank in the football pyramid and that the Premier League spells were only blips as a result of Jack Walkers's money, enthusiasm and direction. That's what the majority of other club's fans believe and that going toe to toe with the big city clubs in the 90's and 00's was inconsistent with our history. Not true. Our history shows that whilst we have not always been a dominant force, we have more than held our own at the top level, albeit with spells outside the top division. Does that mean we have an automatic right to be back in the Premier League? Not really, but then neither have the likes of Aston Villa, Derby County, Forest et al. The big difference currently is that the football authorities have redrawn the rules and are gradually making it more difficult to return through FFP. Teams are having to invent more and more devious ways of raising finance in the hope of being able to find the successful formula. In Rovers case, we play by the rules and with being unable to raise the same levels of revenue, we will always be at a disadvantage to the bigger clubs. It therefore becomes more critical that we use the resources we have in the most effective way. We can't afford to gamble on players with "potential" unless we plan to wait several years. Mowbray keeps saying that progress is being made but most fans don't see a couple of league places or a few more points on the board as progress. They want us to be challenging for promotion after 2 seasons back in the Championship. Is that a realistic objective given our current set up? Is there a strategy that will result in the objective being achieved? Who knows, because we never hear anything from the owners. All we can hope for is that Mowbray, Waggot and Co have a plan!

Flitcroft was a class act. A top player and a brilliant captain. Vastly underrated. One of my favourite ever players.

As is said every year, do people want an official statement from the club on what our budget is? You keep these things under wraps.

Flitcroft would have absolutely destroyed Bradley Johnson for being a useless lazy twonk if he played alongside him . That's what we miss. Too many 'good humans' and not enough players with an edge.

Tom, if you're not a winner you're a loser. There's no middle way in football I'm afraid. I've said it before - how many people turning into work this morning would pull their tripes out if all of a sudden the upper management or the owner of the company suddenly disappeared. Some would, some wouldn't and it wouldn't be too long before the grafters starting saying " If that lot aren't going to do anything neither am I ". I've seen it happen in my working life. You can bring any manager you want into Rovers but it would take a superman to get us back on track whilst there is no sense of hands on direction from the top. " Whilst the cat's away the mice will play ".

Not sure it's a losing culture but it seems 'Ah, ok it doesn't matter there's always next time' kind of mentality. I'm on about game to game and season to season. Everyone is fine to bob along because they keep getting well paid and presumably never have to stand up and answer to anyone on a football level outside of one annual foreign meeting. Doesn't take people long to get into a comfort zone its human nature for most. When you are allowed to actually create your own then even better. It all starts right at the very top they set the targets and demands but even if they do there's no proper administration in between to apply it. Just a messenger boy middleman, god knows what his real agenda is and another wideboy who's authority is less than the first team manager.

That is the most sense I’ve seen on here for a long time. Great post.

I must admit up until Venky's took over we have really always had a good goalkeeper and a settled back 4 with good defensive options on the bench. Which is what is making our current predicament even harder to take. I admit i would take a Darren Peacok or Christian Dailly at the minute to improve our CB positions. We talk about how we improved the CB position last season and started playing out from the back, but we still conceded 60+ goals. So not really an improvement. Next season i still think we need at the minimum 2x GK, 2x CB's who do the basics well, and probably 1x Leftback, a winger or 2 and probably 1 CM and a new CF.

That’s interesting but disingenuous. If we can get Dack for £250k (I thought it was £750 but ok) and Arma for £1.75m then we should be able to get BETTER players than even them for 6 times the amount paid not worse. Arma and Dack should not be the maximum we can expect - we should always be aiming to improve the quality, not increase the depth. Lest we forget that is exactly what got us relegated (twice). Netting off money wasted because of a couple of bargains (on the basis of current form in the case of Arma) is defeatist. We have precious little budget as it is and while sacking Mowbray for wasting a huge amount of money would be reasonable in other industries (and at most other clubs, frankly), looking for an angle to absolve him is nonsense.

Do they? In the Bowyer era I would say that was the case. Away from this forum I don’t see much ambition in the fanbase anymore, plodding along in mid table and staying out of the third division suffices with many these days, ‘we are a small club’ etc. The expectations we had even as relatively recently as, say, 2015 seem to have long gone...

I've just been reading an article regarding Fulham and Scott Parker. Joe Bryan is praising Parker for eradicating the " Losing Culture " at the club and bringing in " great expectations ". In my opinion the "Losing Culture" crept into Ewood Park after the removal of Big Sam and the appointment of Kean. None of our subsequent managers have succeeded in doing what Parker has done at Fulham and bringing in a winning culture. Nobody at the club has " great expectations " anymore. You could say the " Losing Culture " came in through the door with the Chicken Chokers and it has never left.

I’m also delighted they are doing the bare minimum expected of them as owners of the club....

Or ever! It’s so simplistic to say ‘if Dack was fit we’d have x more points and we’d have been in the play offs’. It just doesn’t work like that and so many other variables come into it (for a start the manager hasn’t shown he’s capable of even entering the top 6 with us).

But all sides get injuries Chaddy. Take Bristol City who finished one place behind us they had Afobe out injured for nearly the whole season, if he's fit we might well have finished 12th. Preston had Daniel Johnson injured for a while if he's fit they probably pick up a few more points so even with a fit Dack we may not have caught them. Lolley at Forest picked up a knock towards the end of the season if he stays fit they probably score that one extra goal to make the play offs and we end up even further away from them. Every club will look back on injuries sustained over the course of the season and curse their luck but that's football, all sides get injuries but at the end of the day the league table over 46 games does not lie. They been playing together for 2 and half years.

Its totally disingenous to say "theyre still ploughing £7-8m a season in" without reference to what happened before that. And once that is considered, such a "good deed" loses any credence. For a Rovers supporter to dismiss anyone who doesnt attend as not a supporter whilst being thankful to owners that have allowed our club to go through the gutter, be rinsed by agents, keep Kean for so long, then appoint Coyle a few years ago who steered us to an inevitable relegation, all the while being totally absent and disinterested far, far away, but one who havent totally pulled the plug, as if thats something to be grateful for. Its the old metaphor of being thankful that the guy who shot you took you to the hospital! To be content that they are still here simply out of necessity I can somewhat stomach. To be vocally supportive and thankful to them and slagging off hurt supporters as collateral damage is unfathomable.

What normally happens with a loss making business is the following: 1. Auditors will ask the company for a forward projection for the next year. 2. If still loss making, auditors will ask the shareholders how they will fund losses to profitability or for the next year. 3. Auditors will then ask for written confirmation from shareholders that they will cover the losses as well as evidence of funds. 4. If Auditors are happy with answers and evidence of the above they will sign off the accounts. If they are not happy or evidence has not been forthcoming then there is a set procedure to follow. That has not happened so we can assume the auditors are happy and have approved the accounts. This does not mean they have to fund the company for the next year as there are lots of wriggle room out of it. But during a transfer window there is absolutely no chance of either Venky's or the Bank of India placing us into administration.

Just looking at this rationally what will actually have changed by October? Unless the population is significantly vaccinated by then (highly doubtful) nothing, and with the colder months coming and people spending more time indoors there will almost certainly be an increase of infections. October is likely to be more risky than now which makes this statement bizarre. I think it's all wishful thinking. For fans to be able to get back into the stadiums we either need 1) An effective vaccine or treatment that removes/minimises the risks 2) Accept the risks of increased transmission and deaths that come with it (which to me seems incredibly unlikely to happen)

It’s like this every year. We moan we have money issues but don’t get STs or shirts on sale until the last minute. People want shirts before they go on holiday not after. If selling cheap products at top dollar is the only way then it has to be at the right time.

Funny that, I don't remember us being in the top 6 in the first half of the season with Dack fully fit

You have someone lined up to buy us have you, do you actually think there are loads of rich folk, consortiums etc waiting in the wings, I don’t think so. Took us a couple of years for the Walker trust to sell us, a premier league club, only 20 odd million and a sound club. We all know what happened, mainly due to taking advice from a certain agent, unfortunately we cant turn the clock back, but folk wishing for us to go in administration, lose 12 points and get some chancer to take us forward need to get a grip. The serious money people don’t want a club like Rovers, hemorrhaging money every week.Being in the championship and steadily improving isn’t as bad as you think, sometimes better the devil you know, ask Wigan, Bolton, Bury fans.

It's unfair to blame Raya alone for Brentford missing out on £160 million. What about the BMW forwards who failed to find the back of the net until it was too late? The whole Brentford team just weren't good enough on the night. Credit to Fulham.

I’d have been happier if we’d have kept Raya and sold Ben Benson.

One of their best players this season, 8 mil in PL is diddly squat. Good signing. Also an excellent player to have for if they do come straight back down. Happy for Reed more than anything if it does go through. Been wanting to play PL and done very well on each of his Championship loans so deserves the chance.

No potential transfer news then?

Very few if any training, muscle injuries would keep you out for three months

I will have whatever you’re drinking

I thought Bell improved after new year and can be used as a backup. A first choice left-back of Cunningham standard would be great. Keeper, centre-back, left-back in that order would probably the most important ones. Probably needs someone to replace Graham and Whiteman might be a good option in midfield. He sounds a bit like Sherwood which we are missing. A proper box-to-box midfielder who can make the team tick. Travis is a very handy, but he's not going to control a game. I also think the most important factor if we are aiming for play-offs is getting more consistency out of the current bunch. We need at least 2-3 players to have a breakthrough season like Armstrong to have any chance regardless on who we bring in. We are not solid enough and too few players contribute with enough goals.

I think he is referring to Lucas Neill

To me Brad Smith seems a sensible option, decent enough and won’t break the bank, seems likely

Was at Sheffield Wednesday last season and could never get into the team. Dont think him or Brad Smith are the calibre of players that we need really. You've moved away from your own argument There is no evidence at all that even with Dack, we would have got into the play offs. Even this pie in the sky hope that we would sneak in last minute against all probability and previous evidence. A bottom half defensive record doesnt help! I think this is the time when he has benefitted from his price tag. We are so desperate to see him succeed that we cling onto the merest of flickers of anything we can to justify the hope that one day he will come good. Because the precedent is so low, ultimately a few tidy dribbles in nonthreatening areas and we are all expecting a new dawn. Fact of the matter is in them first 2 games post lockdown, the one time he got himself into a goalscoring position, his touch to round the keeper took the ball behind him and he fell on his arse. Then in the next game he was sent off. His customary one a year goal when there is nothing left to play for was a tidy one but I will need to see much, much more to have any real expectation. We can but hope.

That's it in a nutshell. It doesn't matter how much money goes in if the people with authority to spend it are clueless. That includes the Raos.

Flock Of Seagulls - Wishing (If I Had a Photograph of You)

Stereophonics - Local Boy In The Photograph

And we'd two oven ready turkeys plus Holtby that should have been able to step in and make up for us losing Dack- but they didn't.

The downfall of any sympathy that may have gathered was of course the appointment of Coyle. Coupled with the continuing affiliates of said agency providing ALL our managers. Probably quite a few players and other staff throughout the club as well. Whilst that kind of thing remains suspicion remains that vulchers are still waiting in the wings making a quick buck, with what you can only assume is the blessing of the owners. Or one of them at least. Those gobshites continually looking to blame the fans need to take a step back or just do one altogether to be honest. Don't bite, some of them are turning it on its head on purpose to deflect the questioning of the manager etc, you're being played.

The BMW proved to be good Championship standard but you could see them failing horribly at a higher level. Fulham will struggle but Brentford would have sunk.

David Bates leaving Hamburg. Weren’t we linked with him at some point. Big CB, decent pedigree...

Hmmm....yeeeee-no it’s not. Dack is our best player and talisman. You can skirt around it all you like but the stats don’t lie. The likelihood is that we would’ve accumulated more points if he were fit.

CAN I JUST STATE ONCE AND FOR ALL THAT IM NOT THANKFUL TO THE OWNERS I AM JUST POINTING OUT THET THEY DO IN FACT PUT £7-8M PER YEAR INTO OUR CLUB. ????

Mind blowing.

I'm not completely against you on the ownership issue but on the pitch we aren't "steadily improving" though. A negligible increase in the points tally is being used to mask the glaring deficiencies appearing in the squad. We finished nowhere the first season back after promotion from League 1 and we finished nowhere last season. Surely after first season consolidation you'd expect a significant improvement as a matter of course? We didn't see that, we just saw the same disappointing level of performance as the season before which is deeply dispiriting.

No one is beIng vocally supportive of them. But the FACT of the matter is that they do still put £7-8m (MILLION) of their own money into the club every year in spite of no obvious longstanding love for our club whilst some “Supporters” sit at home, refusing do the primary job of being a supporter - to support their club by putting their hand in their pockets to buy a ticket. In spite of them having the means and ability to do go to the match. Often caveat *”I’m not lining Venkys pockets” - You’re not pal, they’re picking up the clubs debt every year and if we’d all turn up, pay for a ticket then our ability to trade players would be increased via income and the ffp system. The irony of this is breathtaking.

Those are Umbro's teamwear kits that have been on their site for years. They won't be the new kits.

Chaddy, you are happy with whatever the club does...we sold him, you are happy. If we didnt sell him, you would be happy we didnt sell him. I dont recall you saying that we should sell Raya in your opinion...until it happened. This is why you will not say whether we should extend Downings contract, you have zero opinion. If we extend, you will be happy and the club made the right decision, if we dont extend, you will be happy and say the club made the right decision. Selling Raya on it's own is not really the issue here. Yes i rated him and feel he will go on to have a PL career. Despite that, if we had replaced him with an experienced keeper that was better or at least equal, we would all be happy in the main, We didnt. We brought in a desperate loan kid after somehow not managing to line up a replacement before selling off our goalie. He has turned out to be one of the worst goalies I have seen pull on our jersey. But you are happy we weakened our squad, all just to score points despite having no opinion on anything ever....

Just catching up. Its incredible the sheer delight from some people that Raya didn’t get promoted to the PL presumably because that somehow “proves” Mowbray was right to sell him and buy Gallagher, while loaning an inferior keeper. Rather than admit Mowbray was wrong and be disappointed that we didn’t get a cash windfall. Talk about cutting your nose to spite your face! Raya is a huge prospect and will eventually get to the top division. 24yo, huge amount of experience in a position whose peak age is around 30, and finished third in the Championship in the final game. Lets hope any sell on isn’t time bound.