Jump to content

Rover-the-Top

Members
  • Content Count

    303
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

124 Excellent

About Rover-the-Top

  • Rank
    Premier League

Recent Profile Visitors

2,782 profile views
  1. Rover-the-Top

    Brexit

    (Ignoring that Labour and Conservative MPs don't actually choose their leaders) You seem to have made an illogical assumption that because I'm showing how the EU isn't democratic, I think the UK system is perfect, even though I said you can point out flaws in it? We have a hereditary Head of State and an unelected House of Lords, both of which personally I'd like to see change. And in recent times both Gordon Brown and Theresa May have become Prime Minister by becoming leaders of their parties without challenge or validation from the electorate (although May has subsequently remained PM after a GE). However, our Prime Ministers are still MPs elected by the public. At a general election, you know that your vote will potentially lead to the leader of that party becoming leader of the country. If you think it's exactly the same with the EU, by all means explain how the electorate voted in Julian King as the UK's Commissioner?
  2. Rover-the-Top

    Brexit

    From what you've said, I guess the issue is you have a different idea of what constitutes democracy? For better or worse, Presidents Trump and Macron were elected directly by their nations' electorates, for example. As you've just explained, in the EU there's a level of separation between who the public can vote for and how the leaders are appointed. You could quibble over whether it makes a material difference. You could point out flaws in the UK's own democratic process. But you can't say Donald Tusk has been elected by the people of the EU. And that's why people say it's undemocratic. They think leaders should be chosen by the public, as they would be in any democratic nation.
  3. Rover-the-Top

    Brexit

    Such as? Doesn't really matter, here's where they send the most: http://beef2live.com/story-top-10-export-destinations-chicken-0-136692
  4. Rover-the-Top

    Brexit

    We're not talking about products made for domestic consumption in the US, we're talking about them potentially exporting that product to us. Making it a global market. You are aware that they export to other non-EU countries, aren't you?
  5. Rover-the-Top

    Brexit

    So you think the EU would rather harm their own position than work towards a shared goal with us once we've left? Yes of course I think they'll work with us if it's in their interests. You could argue we have terms we don't want forced on us as part of the EU. But trade works both ways. It's absurd to think, for example, the USA are going to force us to buy and eat chlorinated chicken if nobody here wants to buy and eat chlorinated chicken. You seem to have a very negative opinion of the UK. I don't share that view.
  6. Rover-the-Top

    Brexit

    Can't say I'm an expert in how things work in the USA, so you've got me interested - why would the EU now have more impact than an independent UK and the EU27 combined? Are we assuming no future cooperation even when it's in our mutual interests? Or that the US will view two entities as weaker than one, even though they're the same market share? Or something I'm not thinking of?
  7. Rover-the-Top

    Brexit

    I'm sure you don't need the concept of an "example" explaining to you. Even if widgets are only produced in one country, if they try to sell them to other countries, that makes it a global market - it's self explanatory. And if the EU blocks the import of widgets, through tariffs or quality standards, that would be closing off its members from that global market. Substitute "chlorinated chicken" for "widgets" and we have a real-life example that proves the point for me. Helpfully provided by you. Whether we want to import chlorinated chicken is irrelevant, the fact is there is an EU rule preventing its import. And you may think that's actually a benefit of membership, that would be fair comment, it's a subjective issue. I disagree, I think the UK should decide it's own terms. But one thing is certain, you can't make a valid argument that restrictions aren't there.😘
  8. Rover-the-Top

    Brexit

    Yes I have missed your point, but that's because you missed mine in the first place. Chlorinated chicken was brought up by Jim, I was using it to point out that he was contradicting what he said to me. Not advocating that we should buy chlorinated chicken, as I thought I clearly said, that's a whole different debate. Since you're arguing with something different to what my point was, I didn't follow what you were saying... So you think American drug companies are going to hike up prices when exporting to us? I suppose it's conceivable, but I'm not sure how it would work in practice - wouldn't we just import them at the original price via another country?
  9. Rover-the-Top

    Brexit

    Whether you want to eat chlorinated chicken or not, it's irrelevant to the fact there's an EU regulation prohibiting its import. So you are wrong to say the EU doesn't close off markets from outside it's borders. You came up with an example to prove yourself wrong. No idea what you hope to achieve by continuing this, because no matter what you say, I'll just keep going back to that fact.🤣
  10. Rover-the-Top

    Brexit

    I'll take that attempt to deflect as you just being unable to admit that you're wrong.😂
  11. Rover-the-Top

    Brexit

    Trade always has benefits both ways. If there's demand for chlorinated chicken, that will be good for British consumers. It'll be good for British retailers. And if there isn't demand, we're not going to be force fed something we don't want. Not sure how you think we'll be taken to the cleaners.
  12. Rover-the-Top

    Brexit

    Still going after you proved yourself wrong? Wow. Can we buy chlorinated chicken from America? No. Is that because of EU regulations? Yes. So clearly it is true that the EU closes off global markets. You've literally cited an example that proves it.
  13. Rover-the-Top

    Brexit

    Oh my god.😂 So you do know there are restrictions on trade? Why do you keep insisting to me that there aren't? We can't import chlorinated chicken from the USA whilst in the EU. We will be able to when we leave. Whether we want to is another debate, but it's just one example of a market that will be open to us that currently is not.
  14. Rover-the-Top

    Brexit

    Oh dear Jim, still not accepting the fundamental characteristics of the EU? Most clued up remainers complain that leaving will damage our trade with the remaining EU due to the imposition of tariffs when currently there are none. But you seem to believe there are no trade barriers between the EU and the rest of world, so presumably you expect our international trading relationships to remain exactly the same? Of course you're wrong, customs unions, tariffs and quality standards have been central to the debate throughout. If you don't want to take it from me, read up about it from the BBC, the Guardian or Wikipedia....
  15. Rover-the-Top

    Brexit

    1. I was undecided going into the referendum. I've been Euro-sceptic from way back when I was studying economics around the time the EEC mutated into the EU. Whilst the idea of a free-trade bloc has its appeal, I was dubious about whether it could work without complete political integration. And I oppose political integration because of the scale of the EU, it's the saying about too many cooks. I believe it's easier to manage smaller economies - otherwise positive decisions for one region could have an adverse effect in another. There's been plenty of economic problems across the EU over the last 25 years so I'm not really sure why it's now presented as an economic paradise. And by being part of the EU, we were closing off global markets that could bring more benefits to the UK. Then there's also the fact that it went through a fundamental transformation without getting the consent of the electorate. I don't expect the EU to stand still now, I'm apprehensive about the direction it could go in, and we were told the referendum was a once in a generation chance to have a say. So there was my incentive to vote out. However, prior to voting, I awaited some positive reasons to put my doubts to the side. I didn't hear any. Instead, there was a lot of scaremongering about economic crashes that showed little more than if you want to predict a disaster you can. There was more scaremongering about peace across Europe being so fragile that us leaving would mean imminent war, which frankly seems absurd. And a lot of complaining that the Leave campaign put a number on a bus that wasn't accurate, even though the underlying message was true. The only good argument I heard was from my wife saying change would be disruptive. However, that's not good enough to avoid doing the right thing for the long term future. So I voted to leave. 2. No. 3. How is what achieved? 4. I'm not sure what you're asking? I wouldn't change my vote, the behaviour of politicians on both sides has actually hardened my resolve. But I can't say I'm happy with how the process has gone - is anyone? It seems both sides are unilaterally planning to keep things running smoothly at their end should their be no agreement, which will probably work out better than any "deal". But those with the power are unfortunately working hard not to get to that stage. 5. Easy. The ability to raise or reduce tariffs in line with the needs of the UK market, as opposed to adopting a generalised policy determined by the EU. This could result in reduced prices for consumers as barriers to trade with the rest of the world are removed, or help British business by reducing competition from abroad. You may prefer the economic arguments in favour of remaining part of the EU, but you shouldn't talk in absolutes.
×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.