This is going to be one of the best games of the Finals. Both teams have massively entertaining players and if they rise to the occasion, it will be the classic match the Finals have not had so far. I think the Dutch defence will just about shade it for them but here's hoping for a 4-3 result!

England has to be grateful for Ukraine v Tunisia or three of our games would be the worst three games at this World Cup. Good result but the number of basic mistakes and tactical ineptitudes remains in the embarassing column. The defence had its keystone cops moments again, not only Terry but Rio nearly repeated his Ewood Park gaffe. The midfield might as well be playing in formaldehyde, thet were so rigid and lacking in creativity and whilst Rooney was magnificent, we would have murdered them with anybody playing up front next to Rooney. Maybe Neville will get fit (I'll wash my mouth out wishing that Manc back in the England side), Lampard will regain composure in front of goal and Beckham will play as well as he throws up- at least he can still take a mean free kick even if his corners were MGP. Are these over-paid lah-di-dahs going to start playing when we finally face decent opposition? The Italians did a decent job of celebrating here getting into the last 16 so the Maltese England supporters are busy showing them how it is done properly at the moment. This is one crazy island and I cannot hear myself type!

Is 4-1-4-1 the best way to play a team which is suspect in the air at the back and will come wide at speed? I don't know and neither does SGE.

Thanks T4E- Knew I should have watched Rai Uno's coverage with my glasses on!

Boro would have been the only winners if they hadn't appointed Southgate. Lucas Neill singing the praises of Hiddink: http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,1...1298158,00.html

Watching the game yesterday evening, I was thinking that but for 150 morons in Brussels in 2000, the World Cup would probably have been played in England.

The Guardian on the fans' behaviour: http://football.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/...1805578,00.html So very positive. Must admit I fear for Stuttgart this evening- win or lose.

No, far from it. The USA team collected one point more from the toughest Group at the WC than I expected and yes, your TV coverage of soccer sucks as all posters agree. We all elect turkeys from time to time, just yours' do their droppings in other folks' yards.

The Argentinian substitutes said it all: Tevez, Ayala and Messi! No other country comes remotely close to the strength Argentina has in terms of being able to apply pressure in the last 20 minutes and through extra time. Just imagine Tevez and Messi running at a team cramping in that heat- massacre. Argentina are by a long way the stand out team of the World Cup so far. The likely Argentina v Brasil final could be one of the great matches of all time but Argentina are the all-round team of the two.

Agreed about the Mexicans and I would add their keeper looked good as well- O.Sanchez. One guy who will be upping his already mega-value is Crespo. To think that he is surplus at Chelski is quite frightening in terms of their squad next season.

Walcott's Premiership form is only as good as mine. Add him to Hargreaves on the list of players Philipl could replace in the England squad and nobody would notice.

A very reserved and under stated assessment.

Ecuador are a much better side than Paraguay which England were frankly lucky to beat. Germany (who are no better than OK) are swatting aside a Sweden side England struggled against. I think it is going to be finger nail chewing, elbow sucking, toes fingers and knees crossed etc etc but I'll be amazed if England don't squeak through utterly unconvincingly.

I didn't get round to writing any of the previews I said I would do so I am writing one I didn't promise. I am also going to hit Post New Topic now so I don't lose what I have written again. The rest will appear in edit mode. to the new message board! OK its now on the site. Ecuador is just about my favourite place on earth. Never mind, the raging incompetence, corruption, population growth (two women to a bed giving birth-think about it), road deaths (don't try Guayaquil to Quito by road although the wonderful raliway is sadly a truncated apology now), Ecuador is simply the most diverse place on earth in a space smaller than England. In fact nobody knows quite how small Ecuador is as nobody knows where the Peruvian border is and the last soldiers died at Peruvian hands trying to find out as recently as 2004. Ecuador is Latin America on steroids (or at least chewed coca) and then some more. The people are universally friendly although blue-eyed blond Germanic youths with uber Germanic names speaking the local hispanic are a hint of where the Third Reich went. Only the Swiss working class retirees are a pain. The locals engagingly wander the markets with wadges of notes held losely above their heads to proclaim their willingness to buy the wonders of the volcanic soil in the local markets irrespective of the Sucre being replaced by the US dollar. Guayaquil and Lagro are best avoided and the bit of Quito under the statue of Christ is dodgy at night but I'd wander the streets of Quito and most Ecuadorian towns and cities before volunteering for walking large chunks of Paris or Liverpool. Ecuador is Spanish for Equator and it sits smack on it. The Mitta del Monde (middle of the World) is 25km north of Quito where French scientists famously cast the metre rod which is held at 0C in Paris and is the root from which all the metric system originates. Sitting in 100F heat in Valletta, I yearn for the all year round 83F of Quito. Yes, its at 9,000ft but I found the altitude very handleable. I drove up to just under 15,000ft in the pass over to the Occidente and having achieved the highest altitude I am ever likely to, it was a stunning experience for the cloud to part revealing the smoking summit of Antisanna half way up the sky towering another 6,000 ft above. Twenty active volcanoes exceed 20,000ft including Cotopaxi, the World's highest volcano (for climbers the challenge is to make the summit at dawn and be in a plush Quito restaurant for lunch) and Chimborrazo- for a century considered the highest peak in the world and the summit remains the furthest point from the centre of the earth because of the centrafugal effect of the world's spin. The avenue of volcanoes- a vast plateau at twelve thousand feet 250 miles long is an awesome place. Yet in this tiny place is a Pacific Equatorial Coast the equal of any for beaches, dramatic headlands and stunning coastal mangoves and an appreciable chunk of Amazona on the Nappa River not forgetting the awe-inspiring 600ft Sao Francesco Falls. The wildlife diversity is stunning. Talking of which, the Galapagos Islands are part of Ecuador. Believe me if you haven't swum with Penguins circling your head and and sea lions bobbing up to look at you, you've never swum- and I am a weak swimmer. They tell you not to to touch the wildlife, the wildlife cannot read so it touches you! I had a sea lioness sit on my feet and more birds land on me than I care to remember. If a Booby walks towards you, you move out of the way or risk a bit of a peck which given they are 2ft 6ins tall is not advisable. Albatross, Hawks, Frigates, Pelicans, Flamingos, Turtles, Tortoises, Iguanas (land or marine), Finches, Sting Rays, White Tipped Sharks- came within 6ft of all of them. Unforgettable. But the greatest impression left on me is the extraordinary achievement that is the colonial centre of Quito. Spanish perfection in a way that nowhere in Spain is, this vast area from the Presidential Palace south to the statue of Christ is a masterpiece of 16th and 17th Century Spanish colonial building. Within it is a gem of a Church unequaled with anything I have seen in the World. La Compagna (the Jesuit Church) is not just stunning for an array of gold to rival St Mark's in Venice but I have never seen an interior of a building achieve such a stunningly heavenly fusion of colours, of symbols (pre-Inca and Inca design is as prominent as Christian) or painting anywhere. Ecuador also has a football team. If SGE has the sense to double upon their right winger England should win. The Ecuador defence:

But you make your luck and there is nobody in the England set-up good enough to make any luck for anyone except their own bank managers. So the concensus is that we have had a decent, not-outstanding, humourless World Cup so far.... cue Bob Fleming.

Interesting to see that they are public opinion testing the punishments before giving them out. Wonder if the points deductions are retrospective or for the coming season. If retrospective, presumably that leaves Inter with the Title and AC out of Europe next season. If for the coming season, it could mean AC are fighting relegation and Juve are alol but certain not to win promotion from Serie B. Of course, UEFA and FIFA might wish to join in the punishment fun and ban these clubs from international competition for a length of time. After the England ban in the '80s, that is the least I'd expect.

Once again, I couldn't believe how poor France were. Their coaching must be attrocious to allow so many accomplished and experienced players to perform so badly at the basics.

As things look, if we had a decent coaching set-up, England look to have a decent run to the Final. Ecuador are decently competent but are completely managable, the Portuguese and Dutch have dangerous players but not enough overall whilst the Brasilians are mis-firing. Unfortunately, we have an absolutely terrible coaching set-up which doesn't know what it is doing.

The Ukraine v Tunisia game was a stinker by all accounts but that seems to have been the only truly bad match which is not bad for such a big tournament. However, I just don't get the sense that this World Cup has taken off. Maybe it is German efficiency, England being predictably under-coached or a lack of a fairy tale story to get the immagination going. Loking forwards to the last 16, there are 5 games with obvious favourites and only Switzerland v Ukraine, France v Spain and Portugal v Holland which look to be open fixtures. Probably one underdog will upset one of the 5 front runners. The World Cup needs a genuine shock. So come on Sweden, Ecuador, Ghana, Australia and Mexico.

From Sky News: Juventus, Milan, Lazio and Fiorentina have been ordered to stand trial over match-fixing allegations. Italian football federation prosecutor Stefano Palazzi confirmed the four clubs will face questions over match-fixing allegations and demotion is a likely outcome if found guilty.

From the (admittedly unrepresentative) cross-section of fans I've spoken to: Fiorentina- state of shock and we came back from one forced relegation to the bottom serie Lazio- resigned to relegation to Serie B AC- we are not as guilty as Juve, Berlusconi will save us; none expect relegation Juve- ranges from we'll be relieved if its only Serie B to "We only did what big clubs are supposed to do!"

Well you've got a keeper who can turn the course of a game on his own......

I tend to disagtee but I'ne not been watching that much. There have been far more entertaining games than I think we could have expected with only England in parts being truly boring. Sweden v T&T was bad to be honest apart from the increasing hope that T&T would pull off the draw. For me, there has been exceptional play: Ghana v Czech Republic Spain v Ukraine Argentina v S&M Argentina v Holland was a superb game for technical ability on both sides Most games including the dead rubbers have been pretty exciting.

Interesting comments in The Guardian's match report: The athleticism of Australia made their persistence feasible. Croatia were breathless in the face of it and Hiddink's decision to put the squad through a fierce fitness programme looked as if it was being vindicated, even if club managers might wonder just how depleted these men will be when the time comes, soon enough, to start a new domestic season. International priorities had consumed these players and footballers such as Blackburn Rovers' Emerton were at a peak of performance. The target was to sustain such commitment throughout 90 minutes against a Croatia team desperate to respond. Australia's domination did slacken for an interlude, but they fell behind again because of a grotesque mistake. Niko Kovac moved forward after 57th minutes to shoot weakly. The ball ran straight to Kalac but the goalkeeper, who is on Milan's books, went down and somehow bundled the ball over his own body. Hiddink's reaction was to introduce Aloisi, ensuring that Viduka had an outright striker to partner him. Understandably, the Croatian substitution was of a conservative cast, with the orthodox midfielder taking over from the more individualistic Kranjcar. There had been a contrast of that sort between these countries virtually from the start, but Croatia, to the benefit of this World Cup, suffered for it in the end.

Absolutely jbn, why is everybody pining for a Spuds sub? At least the barcodes are stuffed for next season.