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About Glenn

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    BDFL (retired)

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    Leeds, UK
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    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
    Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment - Benjamin Franklin


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    Blackburn End

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  1. Right, it's a VERY emotive subject and people are hurting, so I'm going to let some of the personal insults slide this once, but it's a one time warning. ... and before anyone accuses me of threatening that to promote my own agenda, I want to make it clear, it's not because of what you're discussing, only how you're discussing it.
  2. Let's not forget, this happened on her watch and only a few weeks ago she was using intelligence sharing on terror suspects as a bargaining chip in the Brexit negotiations.
  3. This is now my usual way of getting into Manchester. Park up at Whitfield or Radcliffe (both have big free car parks) and catch the metrolink in. They run about ever 10 mins and it's only a few quid, much less hassle than driving and parking in the centre.
  4. What makes you think there are either here? Just because I think tarring 1.6bn people with the same brush as a handful of extremists nutters, is insane and unfair, it doesn't mean I have any sympathy at all with the villainous scum who take the lives of others, much less kids. Or those that aide or abet them or otherwise protect them.
  5. How many terrorists do you know? What makes you think your community is any different to the bombers, these people don't generally go around advertising it as you know what, people try and stop them! Did people brand the friends and family and Thomas Mair, Raoul Moat and Derrick Birds get guilt by association for not shopping them when they unexpectedly took lives? As Kamy mentioned earlier, there may have once been a head-in-the-sand approach to it being possible in each particular community, but times have changed. It sounds like you're advocating persecution of the innocent based on nothing more than a 'they're all the same' attitude.
  6. I don't follow. Why would anyone dance to the tune of a Daesh supporter? Right minded people don't tend to take much stock in what extremists say (regardless of religion) which is why their views are seen as extreme. This is a free country, removing the freedom do dance to whoever @#/? tune we want (as long as we stay within the law) is an important freedom that the right seem to want to give up in the name of safety that it can never provide
  7. No such thing. In fact I'm @#/? fuming you'd even suggest that. Oddly enough, if I wanted to silence things (be it to support my own views, or simply for any easy life) then I have much easier ways of doing it. Deflecting from the atrocity, @#/? you! I'm simply pointing out that blaming the attoricty solely on the religious choice of 1.6 billion people otherwise innocent is @#/? insane!
  8. You mean the rise of division, hatred and intolerance by people who are either seeking justification for their own bigoted views or don't understand the difference between correlation and causation and don't understand the importance of sample size ...... nope, I'm well awake to it thanks. Oh and nice try by claiming those questioning the role of Islam in this isn't condemning this atrocity, classic diversionary straw man move.
  9. No no no and no. A small number of people's twisted view of some sections of it is what's driving it. I used to think similar, but I took the time to really learn about it (much as I did Christianity, which I turned my back on in my early teens) and much like Christianity, it's the interpretation of a few whack jobs and people using it to satisfy their own prejudices that are the problem.
  10. To be fair, you can point to virtually every major religion across history and highlight similar atrocities carried in its name previously. Yes, the rise of the the suicide bomber in recent times is horrific, as is the fact a bunch of extremists has learnt how to radicalise young western Muslims, but their biggest weapon in this is the same fear, hate and division their actions drive.
  11. I think I'm quite glad to be not one of 'your people'. I'm a proud Brit who stands for good traditional British 'Christian' values such as freedom from oppression, helping ones fellow man without predjudice, renunciation of violence and welfare for the least amongst us. Oppressing people by limiting what they can say, do, wear or think, is about as unBritish as you can get and the hallmark over many middle eastern regimes. So maybe it's not me letting the side down, but you being in the wrong side altogether and fueling the same divide the extremists desire.
  12. 'Christianity' on these Isles has had it own long history of unChristian acts. Personally, I yearn for a world where religion is seen purely as myth and allegory, not a literal interpretation, but I appreciate that for many people religion helps define a moral compass. Sure, some people have tried to blame their own broken moral compass on religion, be that suicide bombers or the child abuse the Catholic Church covered up for decades. But there are broken evil scum, regardless of which religion they claim to support. Besides, we were doing quite well as a pagan nation before the bloody romans came and took over with their religion! BTW just under 10% of Abu Dhabi is Christian (13% of the UAE as a whole), they are recognised by the state and free to practise their religion openly.
  13. I'd like to think that even whilst grieving and seeking revenge for the evil doers that did it, I'd see the difference between one man (or possibly small group) and 1.6 billion people!
  14. I'm sure that makes sense in your head, but seriously, you'd administer some kind of punishment to millions of innocent people because of the actions of a tiny few who claim to share their religious views? What about those who share their country or origin? Political view? Given name? Shoe size? Star Sign, because they are as relevant. These are sick twisted individuals who use their religion as justification terror acts, but any Muslim scholar will tell you they are going against their teachings (in fact, every Muslim you will come across will tell you this). Seriously check out the Human Bomb chapter of Hypernormisation to understand how first Khomeini and then Al-Assad badly twisted a small bit of scripture to justify martyrdom. Thankfully this is not a view shared by all but a few extremist scholars. Typically Muslim see life as Allah most important gift and not theirs to take. Suicide bombers are not typical Muslims.
  15. But to ensure you get 'the terrorists that live amongst us', how indiscriminate are comfortable being by including non-terrorists with your iron fist? i don't think ANYONE would disagree with harsh measures to deal with terrorists, what THEY do disagree with is dishing out that same action to those who happen to share a terrorists race, religion, political affiliation or geographic location