[Archived] Election called for 8th June

[jim mk2]

.....compared to the Tories who under their watch has seen the introduction of zero-hours contracts and the "gig" economy - otherwise known as another way of shafting working people as hard as possible,

[perthblue02]

Might be useful tools in the run up to election day

https://fullfact.org/

http://www.bbc.com/news/topics/267ada11-b730-4344-b404-63067c032c65/reality-check

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck

 

As the PR voting system was touched on previously here's how that would have worked out in 2015 

Compared to the FPTP system

Source : https://www.indy100.com/article/heres-how-the-election-results-would-look-under-a-proportional-voting-system--gJenQmaW2gW

[chaddyrovers]

9 hours ago, Jbizzle said:

Is it just me who feels the deep irony every time I hear this phrase? Corbyn is unelectable....

Out of interest Chaddy, what benefits do a Tory government give you? Talking selfish for second, I know Corbyn would improve public spending thus improve my life potentially.. what would brexit and May do for you?

I didn't realise you had a non eu based business that wanted tax breaks to trade and move to the U.K.? 

Less taxes and more of my income for myself to spend.

The help to buy scheme which I'm looking to get on the housing ladder

I've voted for Brexit and I believe the Tories will deliver what the majority of people voted for

How is Corbyn going to Improve public spending without raising taxes or the debt?

The country doesn't want tax increases as more people want more money for themselves then keeping paying it in taxes

9 hours ago, Jbizzle said:

You do realise that school spending is more unfair now than ever? Staff are dropping like flies and we are throwing thousands at bursaries for industry staff to train as teachers? Who will likely go the same way as the other teachers in first 5 years because of working conditions.

The NHS is at breaking point Chaddy. It's never been in this scenario before. Try talking to doctors, nurses and most importantly patients! 

Voting for tories AND wanting improvements in these areas!?!! It's like turkeys voting for christmas

I have family and friends who worked in the NHS and the social care sector. Plus I have used the NHS over my lifetime and My missus has been in hospital 3 times recently so Ive seen the NHS front on. So I wont be taking lectures from you.

On the NHS, We are spending record amounts on the money but sadly we need a lot more still. After being in the A and E departments at two hospitals and seeing what is taking us time of the staff on those hospital which quite simply they could go to Local doctors instead. Plus how many elderly people are being seen at the A and E departments leads to think something isn't right within the social care sector. Hospitals need to be bigger than they were built. Take Blackburn Royal hospital when it was build it should have been even bigger and used the opposite instead of houses being build there. Yes we need more doctors and Nurses but do people want to choose these careers?

On schools, my step daughter school is very small and there is 30 pupils in each year class. The hall is used as a gym aswell a food hall. But the head teacher and teachers there are amazing and done the best they can with the facilities they have. There is no room for expansion as the school is in a built up area. But in September she goes to high school and going to the one of the best 2 schools in the area we live in. it has loads of facilities and will get the help she needs to achieve her goals and become the best she can become. We met the teachers and the head teacher on the opening evening and they are passionate about delivering the best standard of education possible. Its was her 1st choice and she is so excited about going.

Yes I agree we do need to increase the school and NHS budget but how do we do this when the people don't wanted to be taxed more and have less for themselves. No political party is going to run on tax increases for everyone or even some. We have a problem of how do it.

I would like one leader to be bold and open and honest to the voters and say I wanted to raise taxes on everyone to improve the NHS and Education budgets the funds to be delivery the best standards possible. 1% rise on people earning under 25k a year, 2% on people earning between 26-50k a year and the richest paying 5%(45) more than they do now. But nobody will cos it is political suicide and very unpopular.

 

[chaddyrovers]

 

9 hours ago, K-Hod said:

It's always key to remember we are voting for policies not personalities, in spite of how it is reported in the media.

No matter what anyone thinks of Corbyn (I'm not that keen FYI), I'll bet barely anyone could say what his policies are. There's been a smear against him from day one.

on Corbyn, I could tell you one single sensible purpose he has come up with?

It is very hard to just focus on policies cos surely the personality will come through on those policies and be able to deliver the

8 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

 

I don't know how you could seriously write this but to judge from your previous posts you always vote Tory anyway. Just stick to the day job on the football board Chaddy.

There's a clear case for not voting at all in this election. All of the choices as leader are horrendous. Unfortunately all the focus will be on Brexit and very little on the real issues that affect people's lives such as austerity and the continued ideological underfunding of public services by this government.

The older I get the more I realise FPTP is a real issue. Millions of people in many parts of the country are effectively disenfranchised because of it. Any party that proposes PR will get my vote.

 

There is very true.

Yes I wish David Cameron was still Tory leader but he not.

Tories will delivered a good brexit and will fellow what the majority of the country wanted.

5 hours ago, JohnD said:

Nothing much wrong with the NHS.

Everything is wrong when it comes to getting fit (enough) people out of NHS beds and back into the community.

there is a major problem between the NHS and the social care sector

I have family and friends who directly worked in these areas and one family member its her job to get the elderly people back into the social care sector after the NHS treatment

[jim mk2]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

 

Yes I wish David Cameron was still Tory leader but he not.

 

On your own there matey. In agreeing to an unnecessary EU referendum that in his arrogance he never expected to lose, that has already caused poltiical and economic turmoil and will likely damage this country for decades to come, he'll go down as one of the most disastrous prime ministers in history.

[JBiz]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Less taxes and more of my income for myself to spend.

The help to buy scheme which I'm looking to get on the housing ladder

I've voted for Brexit and I believe the Tories will deliver what the majority of people voted for

How is Corbyn going to Improve public spending without raising taxes or the debt?

The country doesn't want tax increases as more people want more money for themselves then keeping paying it in taxes

I have family and friends who worked in the NHS and the social care sector. Plus I have used the NHS over my lifetime and My missus has been in hospital 3 times recently so Ive seen the NHS front on. So I wont be taking lectures from you.

On the NHS, We are spending record amounts on the money but sadly we need a lot more still. After being in the A and E departments at two hospitals and seeing what is taking us time of the staff on those hospital which quite simply they could go to Local doctors instead. Plus how many elderly people are being seen at the A and E departments leads to think something isn't right within the social care sector. Hospitals need to be bigger than they were built. Take Blackburn Royal hospital when it was build it should have been even bigger and used the opposite instead of houses being build there. Yes we need more doctors and Nurses but do people want to choose these careers?

On schools, my step daughter school is very small and there is 30 pupils in each year class. The hall is used as a gym aswell a food hall. But the head teacher and teachers there are amazing and done the best they can with the facilities they have. There is no room for expansion as the school is in a built up area. But in September she goes to high school and going to the one of the best 2 schools in the area we live in. it has loads of facilities and will get the help she needs to achieve her goals and become the best she can become. We met the teachers and the head teacher on the opening evening and they are passionate about delivering the best standard of education possible. Its was her 1st choice and she is so excited about going.

Yes I agree we do need to increase the school and NHS budget but how do we do this when the people don't wanted to be taxed more and have less for themselves. No political party is going to run on tax increases for everyone or even some. We have a problem of how do it.

I would like one leader to be bold and open and honest to the voters and say I wanted to raise taxes on everyone to improve the NHS and Education budgets the funds to be delivery the best standards possible. 1% rise on people earning under 25k a year, 2% on people earning between 26-50k a year and the richest paying 5%(45) more than they do now. But nobody will cos it is political suicide and very unpopular.

 

Firstly, I'm not lecturing you, it's my opinion - and as far as I can see, it's obvious how we see things similarly but have a complete different viewpoint.

Secondly, there are many holes in the tax system, I'm not even slightly concerned by the personal brackets, I'm more bothered about a manifesto that fairly taxes corporations and stops the conflicts of interest. That money would more than cover all the cuts for austerity in social, benefit, schools, nursing etc etc. It's huge, why do you think certain elements of our society want a repeal of certain business limits and rules? For example the Eu!!

Thirdly, the NHS is in absolute disarray, you need to look further than your own experience. I've had a few appointments that have gone well recently, but do I ignore the vote on strike action the nurses are taking? The privatisation is turning your tax money into profits for peers. It's not hard to find the examples.

Fourthly, you saw the face saving side of schools, how do you think these schools get their money? Through bums on seats. Did he mention th likely job cuts, lack of staff, lack of prospect staff, cuts to admin and governance for all state schools? Doubt he would. 

There is much more to this than belief in "a leader". 

 

 

 

[Baz]

3 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Mmmm..............the (hypocritical) party that after regaining power in 1997, revitalised public services such as the NHS and state schools (those used by the working class) post 1997 after 19 years of shameful Tory neglect, and then went on to manage:  

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.

2. Low mortgage rates.

3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.

7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.

9. Employment is at its highest level ever.

10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.

11. 85,000 more nurses.

12. 32,000 more doctors.

13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.

14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.

15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.

16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.

17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.

18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.

19. Restored city-wide government to London.

20. Record number of students in higher education.

21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.

22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.

23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.

25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.

27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.

28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.

29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.

30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.

31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.

32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.

33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.

34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.

35. Banned fox hunting.

36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.

37. Free TV licences for over-75s.

38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.

39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.

40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.

41. New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work.

42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.

43. Free eye test for over 60s.

44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.

45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.

46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.

47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.

48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.

49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.

50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.

 

All this, and yet all we hear from the current labour party is about the Iraq war, and how awful Blair was. Crazy.

 

[Baz]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

on Corbyn, I could tell you one single sensible purpose he has come up with?

It is very hard to just focus on policies cos surely the personality will come through on those policies and be able to deliver the

There is very true.

Yes I wish David Cameron was still Tory leader but he not.

Tories will delivered a good brexit and will fellow what the majority of the country wanted.

there is a major problem between the NHS and the social care sector

I have family and friends who directly worked in these areas and one family member its her job to get the elderly people back into the social care sector after the NHS treatment

Bed blocking is only 1 of the issues in the NHS, look also at how cuts to mental health care budgets are effecting this.   Incidentally it's your favourite party who have massively cut the social care budget causing the biggest ever problem. They also had a multi billion pound reorganisation which has had no positive effect, but count that as part of their 'investment'. NHS staff are getting a 1% pay increase this year, after 7 years of no increase, so we are paying them less than when the last Labour government left.

If the Tories want to end the NHS and go with a aussie/ Canada system, then fine - they should put it in their manifesto. It's this acceptance of allowing lies like the 'all politicians lie' that gives them a free hand to go against their manifesto promises.

The best thing for this country right now would be a coalition government, forcing the government to play a straight bat and consider all sides on the Brexit deal.

[JohnD]

Hey, don't get precious over NHS staff pay as it's not bad at all and the benefits are very generous.

[JohnD]

3 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Mmmm..............the (hypocritical) party that after regaining power in 1997, revitalised public services such as the NHS and state schools (those used by the working class) post 1997 after 19 years of shameful Tory neglect, and then went on to manage:  

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.

2. Low mortgage rates.

3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.

7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.

9. Employment is at its highest level ever.

10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.

11. 85,000 more nurses.

12. 32,000 more doctors.

13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.

14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.

15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.

16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.

17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.

18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.

19. Restored city-wide government to London.

20. Record number of students in higher education.

21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.

22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.

23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.

25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.

27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.

28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.

29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.

30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.

31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.

32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.

33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.

34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.

35. Banned fox hunting.

36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.

37. Free TV licences for over-75s.

38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.

39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.

40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.

41. New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work.

42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.

43. Free eye test for over 60s.

44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.

45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.

46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.

47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.

48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.

49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.

50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.

 

That was the Labour Party, we no longer have one.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

On your own there matey. In agreeing to an unnecessary EU referendum that in his arrogance he never expected to lose, that has already caused poltiical and economic turmoil and will likely damage this country for decades to come, he'll go down as one of the most disastrous prime ministers in history.

funny enough heard a couple of people on TV and Radio saying the same thing as me.

Economic turmoil? really? Not what the experts says and unemployment rates are going down each month.

I don't know how anybody can say how the country will be after Brexit?

1 hour ago, Jbizzle said:

Firstly, I'm not lecturing you, it's my opinion - and as far as I can see, it's obvious how we see things similarly but have a complete different viewpoint.

the NHS is in absolute disarray, you need to look further than your own experience. I've had a few appointments that have gone well recently, but do I ignore the vote on strike action the nurses are taking? The privatisation is turning your tax money into profits for peers. It's not hard to find the examples.

you saw the face saving side of schools, how do you think these schools get their money? Through bums on seats. Did he mention th likely job cuts, lack of staff, lack of prospect staff, cuts to admin and governance for all state schools? Doubt he would. 

There is much more to this than belief in "a leader". 

 

 

 

On the NHS, I have already said that I have family and friends who work in the NHS and Social care sectors. So it is based on more than my experiences. Lets not forget that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown fetch the private companies into the NHS. I have spoken to my local GP recently and he was happy with it.

On School, did who mention it? Primary or Secondly school headteacher? If Primary head he does the best he can with the funds he has available. He took it over when it was special measures and done fantastic with it within the last 3 years. If the Second head, very much doubt any cuts will be happening at the schools. Its investing in his pupils with excellent facilities. It was reformed in 2008 after being a very poor school but since then it has been very highly regarded in the local area.

[Gav]

Just now, JohnD said:

Hey, don't get precious over NHS staff pay as it's not bad at all and the benefits are very generous.

The pay at ground level as atrocious John, nurses, midwives, porters, paramedics, nursing assistants, the pay is abysmal for what they do, the abuse they get and level of responsibility.

[Mike E]

1 hour ago, Jbizzle said:

Firstly, I'm not lecturing you, it's my opinion - and as far as I can see, it's obvious how we see things similarly but have a complete different viewpoint.

Secondly, there are many holes in the tax system, I'm not even slightly concerned by the personal brackets, I'm more bothered about a manifesto that fairly taxes corporations and stops the conflicts of interest. That money would more than cover all the cuts for austerity in social, benefit, schools, nursing etc etc. It's huge, why do you think certain elements of our society want a repeal of certain business limits and rules? For example the Eu!!

Thirdly, the NHS is in absolute disarray, you need to look further than your own experience. I've had a few appointments that have gone well recently, but do I ignore the vote on strike action the nurses are taking? The privatisation is turning your tax money into profits for peers. It's not hard to find the examples.

Fourthly, you saw the face saving side of schools, how do you think these schools get their money? Through bums on seats. Did he mention th likely job cuts, lack of staff, lack of prospect staff, cuts to admin and governance for all state schools? Doubt he would. 

There is much more to this than belief in "a leader". 

Re: Corporation tax, is it not better to keep this low (eg: Ireland) to encourage businesses here to create jobs?

That way all those extra jobs = more contributions to NI, more tax, lower unemployment rates. Great stuff all round, even if the personal tax bands remained the same.

If you then raise the personal tax bands slightly, while protecting the low/living wage earners surely that's better all-round for the UK as a whole as well as the individual?

Raising Corp tax just pushes business away, which lowers employment, eradicates a LOT of contribution via taxes AND lowers spending as it forces people to try and save. That will result in another knee-jerk austerity attack. All in a climate where business isn't looking to come to a place exiting the EU (whatever your actual opinion on Brexit is).

Instead, raising tax bands slowly NOW while it's in our hands seems the sensible thing to do imo. Even just 2% increases to each current band = a lot of money towards schools, the NHS, and everything we risk forcing under the water.

[chaddyrovers]

We spend 102 billion pounds on the Education sector and 149 billions on the health sector.

my source is from the office of budget responsibility

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Mike E said:

Re: Corporation tax, is it not better to keep this low (eg: Ireland) to encourage businesses here to create jobs?

That way all those extra jobs = more contributions to NI, more tax, lower unemployment rates. Great stuff all round, even if the personal tax bands remained the same.

If you then raise the personal tax bands slightly, while protecting the low/living wage earners surely that's better all-round for the UK as a whole as well as the individual?

Raising Corp tax just pushes business away, which lowers employment, eradicates a LOT of contribution via taxes AND lowers spending as it forces people to try and save. That will result in another knee-jerk austerity attack. All in a climate where business isn't looking to come to a place exiting the EU (whatever your actual opinion on Brexit is).

Instead, raising tax bands slowly NOW while it's in our hands seems the sensible thing to do imo. Even just 2% increases to each current band = a lot of money towards schools, the NHS, and everything we risk forcing under the water.

agree there.

Keeping Corporation tax low keeps jobs here and help companies investing in the country and creating jobs.

Employment keep reducing and going down. more people in work means more taxes

but the question is do People really want the taxes going up? and which party is going to brave enough to say they put taxes up?

[jim mk2]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

 

Economic turmoil? really? Not what the experts says and unemployment rates are going down each month.

I don't know how anybody can say how the country will be after Brexit?

 

Pound slumped 15 per cent, raising the cost of imports of food etc, and boosting inflation which now exceeds pay inflation by some margin. So we're all worse off because prices are rising in the shops. My US holiday cost an extra £800 because of it. With regards unemployment, most of the jobs are unskilled, zero- hours contracts, hardly the sort of high skilled high pay jobs we should be looking to create. And the Brexit process hasn't even started yet. It's true no one knows how the country will be after Brexit but all the forecasts see gdp much reduced over a 5-10 year period and begs the obvious question of why people voted for Brexit when the economic benefits were unproven. 

[jim mk2]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

We spend 102 billion pounds on the Education sector and 149 billions on the health sector.

my source is from the office of budget responsibility

We spend about 5% of gdp on health, whereas roughly similar size economies such as France and Germany spend 8-9%. The only time we got near that figure was under Blair. Fact is the NHS is grossly underfunded and is being starved of cash for ideological reasons. 

[Mike E]

I should emphasise that as much as my earlier opinion is what I believe us right, I don't trust anyone to deliver it.

Hell, I don't think anyone can really pledge it, as it's not a popular thing in this country to give a little more for the benefit of all.

[JBiz]

Mike - there is a good tax deal, and there is taking the micheal..

Google and Ireland is a good example. They had a turnover of 20 odd billion and paid about 40 million in tax writing off loads of "administrative expenses". That's a joke. I understand the necessity for jobs, but this kind of system takes more out than it will put in. 

I also mentioned the conflicts of interest with certain people around Westminster. The previous Cameron scandals are fresh in the mind, the Phillip Hammond examples (castle mead et al) are just more examples. 

Id happily pay more to see tangible changes but don't forget that we are already paying more! We earn less, vat and inflation is up since 2010. What are we getting for that?

Chaddy- very much doubt many cuts are happening in schools? Are you living under a rock  

Left wing https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/mar/07/headteachers-write-to-parents-over-school-funding-and-job-cuts

Right wing

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4303126/Headteachers-claim-cuts-force-schools-close-early.html

 

 

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

We spend about 5% of gdp on health, whereas roughly similar size economies such as France and Germany spend 8-9%. The only time we got near that figure was under Blair. Fact is the NHS is grossly underfunded and is being starved of cash for ideological reasons. 

we are spending 149 billion pounds on Health from 802 billion pounds budget. so that's 18% of the overall budget on that

1 minute ago, Jbizzle said:

Mike - there is a good tax deal, and there is taking the micheal..

Google and Ireland is a good example. They had a turnover of 20 odd billion and paid about 40 million in tax writing off loads of "administrative expenses". That's a joke. I understand the necessity for jobs, but this kind of system takes more out than it will put in. 

I also mentioned the conflicts of interest with certain people around Westminster. The previous Cameron scandals are fresh in the mind, the Phillip Hammond examples (castle mead et al) are just more examples. 

Id happily pay more to see tangible changes but don't forget that we are already paying more! We earn less, vat and inflation is up since 2010. What are we getting for that?

Chaddy- very much doubt many cuts are happening in schools? Are you living under a rock  

Left wing https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/mar/07/headteachers-write-to-parents-over-school-funding-and-job-cuts

Right wing

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4303126/Headteachers-claim-cuts-force-schools-close-early.html

 

 

My local MP raise the question in today PMQ and cuts to the school budget in the Hyndburn area. I spoken to the Graham Jones about the cuts in the school budgets at length. PM May said they are fairer system nation wise about spending on schools. The school My step daughter is going to a great secondary school and with great facilities tho. The school has had a lot of investment over the past 10 years.

[den]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

 

Tories will delivered a good brexit and will fellow what the majority of the country wanted.

 

17 million people from an electorate of 46 million people voted for Brexit Chaddy. Nowhere near the "majority of the country.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, den said:

17 million people from an electorate of 46 million people voted for Brexit Chaddy. Nowhere near the "majority of the country.

did all 46 million people vote?

[Baz]

31 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Hey, don't get precious over NHS staff pay as it's not bad at all and the benefits are very generous.

A fully qualified band 4 nurse, with a couple of years experience is on less than 20k. 

7 years ago they were on the same pay.

The nursing assistants ( the ones who tend to spend more time with patients) that falls to £15-16k

[den]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

did all 46 million people vote?

What a daft reply. 

 

[jim mk2]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

we are spending 149 billion pounds on Health from 802 billion pounds budget. so that's 18% of the overall budget on that

 

Utter nonsense. 

My figures were out admittedly but look here

http://visual.ons.gov.uk/how-does-uk-healthcare-spending-compare-internationally/