01000011 01101111 01101101 01110000 01110101 01110100 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100000 01100100 01101111 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01100110 01100101 01100101 01101100 01101001 01101110 01100111 01110011 00101110

01010100 01101000 01100001 01101110 01101011 01110011 00100001 00100000 01010100 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100111 01110011 00100000 01110100 01100101 01101110 00100000 01101101 01101001 01101110 01110101 01110100 01100101 01110011 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01101101 01111001 00100000 01101100 01101001 01100110 01100101 00100000 01001001 00100111 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101110 01101111 01110100 00100000 01100111 01100101 01110100 00100000 01100010 01100001 01100011 01101011 00101110

Sorry ... for the non-geeks Husky wrote "Computers don't have feelings" in computer speak... and I replied "Thanks! That's ten minutes of my life I'll not get back." ... after translating it!

01000011 01101111 01101101 01110000 01110101 01110100 01100101 01110010 01110011 00100000 01100100 01101111 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01100110 01100101 01100101 01101100 01101001 01101110 01100111 01110011 00101110

01010100 01101000 01100001 01101110 01101011 01110011 00100001 00100000 01010100 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100111 01110011 00100000 01110100 01100101 01101110 00100000 01101101 01101001 01101110 01110101 01110100 01100101 01110011 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01101101 01111001 00100000 01101100 01101001 01100110 01100101 00100000 01001001 00100111 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101110 01101111 01110100 00100000 01100111 01100101 01110100 00100000 01100010 01100001 01100011 01101011 00101110

You are becoming more and more like your avatar, Zaphod.

One head speaks sense ...

Personally I'd horsewhip such.

Exactly. It's quite simple, if you cant beat them... join them. Getting this across unfortunately is like trying to push a pea up a ski jump with my nose.

I was shocked when I saw the article about this in today's LT. I was in the same year as Dominic at St Mary's College and our paths also crossed many years later at British Aerospace (as it was then called). Always stopped to pass the time of day whenever we met outside Ewood. RIP Dom.

I dont always comment on such things as I often get them wrong! But if we lose to B'ham by as little as 1 goal and Barnsley beat Huddersfield by a clear 7 goals (or we lose by 4 and they win by 4 more "reallisticly"), wouldn't that put us down?

In this scenario (Barnsley tubbing Udders) where do you think Huddersfield will end-up?

What a great few days to be a 'happy clappy' Rovers fan. COYB!

Always sad to hear of the passing of a fellow Rover. RIP Kelbo.

and Jan? God she was good.

Good shout ... I'd almost forgotten about her. Back in the day you would see her at most away games ... I even remember her at Llyon hobbling about on crutches. Where is she now?

btw Ewood Spark... my arguments did not run out so don't be so eager with the supercillious comments please. You say 50:50 makes no difference!! Well imagine there being no split in another 20 years or so and the population becoming 75% teetotal1! Do you still think the town centre will return to former glories? How about when it's 100%? There simply will be non of your issues to "hopefully address" will there?

Like Nero you are fiddling whilst Blackburn burns. You simply cannot see the wood for the trees or more likely your outdated liberal principles won't let you. Think of Blackburn town centre as a business, which business can lose 50% of it's customers, recognise the downward curve continuing and not be in serious trouble? Until you can recognise all the sides to the situation there really is no point continuing debating this topic with you.

Sorry Gordon to labour a point, but you seem to be struggling with it. Both cletus and DE4life make interesting points about why drinking/ socialising habits are changing ... but these are generic to any city or town across Britain. The point of this thread is to discuss why Blackburn's nightlife apparently took a step change for the worse circa 10 years ago. The demographic profile did NOT take a similar step change at that time .... but the viable routes across the town centre did. I remember when the Mall was not only a through route but actually hosted watering hole of it's own (The Clarence). These FACTS may not fit your agenda, but that is what they are ... FACTS. By the way if you are after a good night out try Leicester ... soon to be the first predominantly Asian city in the UK ... And still a cracking night out.

Now I've only met you briefly once or twice Neil and from that I have got to say I do quite like you, and that is why I have selected these carefully and in the order that I want them to be interpreted......

. .

No hard feelings I hope.

I was quite enjoying this debate ... shame really that your arguments ran out.

Alrighty Neil.... For one it's complete piffle cos geography doesn't come into it at all and demographics have had a massive effect. Blackburn shopping centre is hardly the Great Wall of China or the Siegfried Line is it? A few acres thats all, it's not even a tiny fraction of the trafford centre is it? Crikey if Tom didn't go up those steps he'd have to take a massive detour of 100 yards along Northgate.

Point is as you very well know is that a town of approx 120,000 people of whom alcohol is part of the culture to a town nowadys with an approx 50:50 christain:muslim split of individuals between 18 and 30. Market forces and the birth figures have done and are doing the rest.

Even taking into account the 50-50 split you have quoted, that is the equivalent of Blackburn having a population of 60,000 ... Still considerably larger than a lot of towns with a perceived livelier nightlife (Clitheroe for example). That is why your argument holds no water. As I said the main reason for the downturn in Blackburn's nightlife is that the clusters of pubs orbiting the Mall have become isolated due to access restrictions being imposed. Hopefully this issue can be addressed.

Neil that is absolute and utter piffle.

C'mon Gordon, you can do better than that! Have another go. Tell me what is wrong with my (correct) analysis.

It was scunny... until about 10 years ago. Unfortunately the majority of the town's younger population are tee total these days and as a result any real town centre nightlife has been killed off and the younger drinkers have been forced to seek pastures new in Clitheroe, Manchester and Preston.

Come on Gordon, you know very well that what you're implying isn't true. Nothing to do with demographics and everything to do with geography. There was no step change in the demographic profile of the town circa ten years ago, but what did happen was the rat-run across/through the Mall connecting the main clusters of pubs was closed. This was the sole reason for the demise of the town centre nightlife scene. Little did the planners back in the 60's know that what they were proposing ( including one of the largest night clubs in Europe) would half a century later strangle the town's night time economy. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Let's hope the old Market site can be developed with all this in mind.

We have had two excellent dining experiences recently at MJ's restaurant at the Whitehall Hotel in Darwen ... A modern, bright, cosy dining room with a backdrop of a wooded hillside ... well presented traditional fare for the more discerning diner .... well worth a visit.

I may have missed this as I've been away for the last 2 weeks but there doesn't seem to have been any mention of Don Martin's sad death at the tragically young age of 65. He may not have been at the highest level but he provided plenty of entertainment for me in my formative years as a Rovers fan in the old Third Division team. There was a nice article by Paul Agnew in today's programme.

The saddest part in that article was hearing that he died alone and was found by a neighbour. Don and his family used to live on our road ... I remember playing out with his lad. He was defiantly one of my heroes from my formative Rovers supporting years .... and for the part he played in the famous Plymouth 5-2 demolition (still my favourite ever game) will always be a Rovers legend. Thanks for the memories Don.

Dined there myself last night.

1. Food was good if a taj overpriced. No better than the excellent but much smaller Millstone at Mellor in that respect.

2. They really need to do away with using breadboards as plates. I'm sure that the novelty has worn off and I always suspect the hygiene levels.

3. They do need Carlsberg Export on tap. A quality restaurant chain should not be serving natts p1ss to the more discerning lager drinkers.

4. It's going to be as much a social experience than an eaterie. I couldn't move for people that I know but haven't seen for ages.

Enjoyable night all the same. Packed out too, so whether that was people 'giving it a go' or genuine regular diners of the future only time will tell. I assume competitors that will feel the effects of any success at the Clog will include the Millstone, Thyme and Inside Out..... and to an extent the Three Fishes!

Is it ok to take kids? They sent us a publicity flyer last week so I was considering booking a table. It's years since I was last 'in't Clog' ..... I seem to remember an aquarium in there ... in the late 80's?

It is also a fact that in the forties and fifties when the industrial boom meant that we were creating more CO2 than at any other time in history the world got COLDER and scientists were worried about the effects of another ice age. Facts.

This statement alone shows that a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous when completely misunderstood.

1) Its not the rate of CO2 production that influences global warming ... it is the absolute amount of the stuff in the atmosphere that causes the problems .... ie the effect is cumulative.

2) In the 1940's and 50s there were a hell of a lot more pollutents in the atmosphere due to inefficient burning of dirty fuels (ie prior to pollution legislation). The effects of certain pollutents is to reflect solar radiation and hence cool the planet. This was demonstrated most recently in the USA the week following 9/11 when air traffic over the country was virtually non-existent. Scientists noted that the average temperature over the country rose by one degree ... a fact as attributed to the absence of aircraft vapour trails!

Spoke to a lad at work today who I have been in the process of converting to a Rover for the last two years. He has just got to the stage where he was not relying on me to purchase tickets for himself and his daughter. He was telling me that last week he drove over from the Fylde to get tickets for the Liverpool game and thought he would pop in to the club shop to buy his daughter a hat and scarf for Christmas. He couldn't belive that he could not purchase the said items in a premises within the boundary of the club. The only thing he bought in the end was a £2.50 T-shirt with the Rovers crest on .... when he got it home and inspected it further he was amazed to find that the Latin motto on the crest read 'Arte et Lapore'!! It's a bloody disgrace .... WE HAVE GOT TO REMOVE THESE TAT- MERCHANTS FROM OUR CLUB.

Bryan, you've obviously been looking in the wrong places. It's all out there, try and find it.

Hey Jack your right about this internet malarky ... it's amazing what you can find out if you do a bit of digging ... I've just discovered a site claiming Elvis is alive and well and working as a live in cleaner for Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot in Cleethorpes of all places! You might be right about global warming after all.

I could go on and on, but do recommend that you read "State of Fear."

Unbelievable Tell me American where do you go for your holidays .... Jurassic Park?

I've read every single post on this thread and no body has actually managed a written in stone fact. All we have seen is figures that can be intepreted in any way that you may wish to argue. The only FACT in this is that nobody knows and we are all guessing. Those who say there is geographical proof of climate change are correct though, as the climate is changing and has changed for warmer and colder for millions and millions of years before we had even evolved.

If David Cameron hadn't made a fuss would we even be having this debate?

On page 3 of this thread I posted the following (in response to a similar call for facts by yourself) :-

Fact 1: When I walk into my conservatory on a sunny day the temperature in there is warmer than the ambient temperature outside.

Fact 2 : The mechanism explaining the effect described in fact 1 is as follows :- Glass is transparent to short wavelength light radiation but is opaque to long wavelength infra-red radiation. Light radiation (from the sun) enters the conservatory and is absorbed by non-reflective surfaces within. This is then re-radiated as longer wavelength infra-red radiation which is now trapped by the glass.... hence the temperature rises.

Fact 3: Carbon dioxide exhibits similar properties to glass in respect to it's effect on the two types of radiation.

Fact 4: Carbon dioxide which has been locked-up in the form of various carbon compounds for millions of years is being released in an 'instant' (in geological terms).

Fact 5: Geological history demonstrates that 'sudden' environmental changes on a global scale result in mass extinctions. Adaptation due to evolution functions over geological timescales.

I tried to keep it simple ... as a sort of laymans guide to the mechanics of GW. Care to comment on any of these facts?

If you want to find out the trith behind the 'global warming' phenonoman (sp?) read state of fear by Michael Crichton! OK the story is utter Pishh but the arguements within are sound. further more there is a glossery of many scientific papers upon which they are all based, so if you so wish you can make up your own mind using un-biased reports from scientists who do not want to sell papers or fill a 10 minute slot in the scedual!

Of course there is a counter-argument to global warming ... it is the nature of the scientific method to strive for a better understanding of our world through empirical observation and experiment and anybody is entitled to 'throw their hat in the ring' with a theory ... as long as they are prepared to back it up with hard evidence. Science is an evolutionary process and, analagous to biological evolution, the 'best' ideas survive the attacks from detractors. At the moment the vast majority of the scientific community backs the theory of global warming and the ball is firmly in the court of the 'GW' deniers to overturn the current overwhelming weight of evidence ... somthing they have so far failed to do. As a last point .... it is a mistake often made by people ... beliving what they WANT to hear rather than what is ACTUALLY happening.

Took the dog for a walk today. Very impressed with the restoration work that's been completed.

Hey don't come on this board praising Blackburn .... don't forget the place is the absolute pits of the earth ... according to some of our most outspoken posters (see Phil and Gords love-in thread)

To be honest, most of it

Thanks Aggy you have reinforced the point I made in my last-but-one paragraph.

Take note Ewood Spark. Yes, we can do without the bigotry but we can also do without the snobbery.

And which part of my post did you consider snobbery? Oh and by the way which tier where you sat in?

In Dutch it's "De Kuip" in English "The Tub" ..... my lasting impression is a basterdisation of the two .... " The Tip". How some of these European grounds get a safety certificate is beyond me.

For a start it was unreserved seating, for a sold-out allocation, in a split tier area!!!.... what the hell where they thinking??

When we eventually got in the ground ...just before kick-off ... the only seats we could find where in the upper tier in an area that had seemingly been reserved for 'the Numpties' day out. I can only presume that the crime figures for the Blackburn area dropped significantly on Thursday night ... as by my reckoning every petty criminal from the town was sat in the three rows in front of me.

Directly in front of me was sat 'the chav royal family' ... from granddad, a man in his seventies declaring "Why do we have to have those two w*gs playing up front for us?" to proud mum and dad looking on approvingly as their 30+ year prodgeny tried to smash his way through the Perspex barrier to an un-timely (but not un-welcome) death. And perhaps most distressing of all, the baby of the family , a lad of about 12...being encouraged to follow in the footsteps of his belligerent elders.

As for the train journey back to Amsterdam ... where do I start? I'm in a party including my wife, my mum and dad (both in their late sixties) and a father and son we had previously met in Salzburg. We manage to get on the train and find seats ... albeit singles through a carriage. First we get this big guy wandering through the carriage and totally oblivious of his audiance declaring in to his mobile (bear in mind the carriage was silent at this point) "Yhea i had a n*gger last night but I've got a little slitty-eye lined up for tonight" obvious to one and all he was discussing his Amsterdam buissenes dealings!!!! Prat. The rest of the journey consisted of lads vying to play at top volume their latest clip of Roy 'Chubby Brown' or some porn clip.

Don't any body kid themselves .... there are some real scum out there basking in the reflected glow of Blackburn Rovers ... thankfully they don't judge most games glamerous enough to associate themselves with.

As for the game ..... Sparky put in a bid for their No 24!