Oh I just ignored that part, Jan. No one in the media gives a crap about Rovers so I dismissed the Scottish comment as rubbish penned by the ignorant.

My point was that they were the only media source (apart from the actual Sky commentators who covered the match) who recognized D'Urso's call for what it was: the worst %*@#!^& penalty decision I've probably ever seen.

Good spot, greggy. I was beginning to think that Rovers fans were the only ones who saw what a s*** call D'Urso made.

Maybe I'm just being exceedingly negative in outlook, but I think there are a couple of scenarios for the so-called resurrection (and subsequent failure) of the Pedersen deal.

Tromsø are nearing the end of their season and think the time is right to sell MGP... so they hint to Blackburn that he's available now for a similar price to the one they previously offered, and entice them to make a bid--knowing full well that they're simply going to reject it. Having claimed that a deal is close with Blackburn, they hope to draw in the other teams who have maintained an interest in Pedersen (namely Man U, Chelsea, and Tottenham) and start a classic bidding war that will generate the most cash for Tromsø (and consequently screw over Rovers in the process).

From Rovers end of things... Souness hasn't been able to put together deals for Rovers' other targets (Moore, El Hamdaoui, Odemwingie) and the cash that he thinks he might get from the Beattie deal is quite simply burning a hole in his pocket. So when Tromsø invites another bid he obliges. Meanwhile they continue to haggle over the terms of the payment and the deal falls through... and Tromsø suddenly hopes that Chelsea comes in with an (as usual) overinflated £12 million bid for MGP.

Meanwhile all us Rovers fans sit here ###### off again by the falling through of what we saw as the club's lone "exciting" signing this close season.

Ta ta, krislu.

Wow.

Just saw the highlights of Arsenal's game yesterday.

We don't have a prayer.

Right - I can exclusively reveal that we might sign Pedersen this week. Or we might not. It depends on a lot of things and a lot of haggling so it might just happen. Or it might not.

Hope that's cleared everything up.

(Sorry - no link)

There you go Scotty - I clearly know as much as the next man - i.e. zilch. I just thought I'd summarise the first 4.5 pages of this thread into one concise post. If I gave the impression that I actually know what the hell is going on then I apologise.

As for the too much time on my hands - you've probably got a point.

SAR - I've no idea.

Thought this might help shed some light on the situation bob.....

BOB FLEMING'S EXCLUSIVE SOURCE!!!!!

3. Rovers must deploy 2 wide midfielders which will restric tthe movement of Reyes and Bergkamp/Pires.

Come now, 1864... we haven't played wide men in so long that I'm beginning to forget what they are. As for my prediction...

2-0 Arsenal. Yes, I'm being wildly optimistic.

I'm shamelessly self-quoting from another thread, but I thought it would perhaps be more useful in here:

I'm no longer angry as I have no expectation of this team and manager; they're not actually bad, they're just nothing, non-descript, uninspired, there is no spark of any sort. The pre-match hope of winning has died and I will turn up out of a sense of duty. I'm thoroughly disillusioned, hopefully the board will act in some way. We've no money to buy players, there is only one choice.

What's truly sad, Paul, is that I consider you one of the most level-headed posters on here... this isn't rover6 or Capt Kayos saying they've lost faith in Souness (with no disrespect at all meant to those two), it's a fan who clearly was pro-Souness from the get go and has now completely lost faith in the man. I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet, but I'm slowly starting to move directly onto the fence between the camps.

For any of you familiar with American baseball... I'm a diehard Phillies fan, and thier manager, Larry Bowa, is one of Philadelphia's favorite children. I love the guy--he's fiery, passionate, and emotional, a real throwback guy (hmmm, sounds like another manager I can think of). However, he's now in his fourth season as manager and the Phillies are badly underachieving and will miss the playoffs for the tenth straight year. Do I think it's all Bowa's fault? Not by any means. But there's an old expression in baseball that says, "You can't fire the players."

My point is this: at some point, a coach or manager has taken a team as far as he can, and can't take them any further. It's never completely their fault, but for some reason or another things just aren't working out anymore. Perhaps the players need to hear a new voice; perhaps the team is stale and needs an injection of new life. Whatever the case, it's usually clear that something has to be done, and it's very true that you can't fire the players.

Larry Bowa will be leaving at the end of this season, I'm sure of it. As for Souness... I really genuinely like the guy and think he's done a great job for the club, but perhaps it is time for him to move on. I don't think it's completely been his fault, but he's verging on the point where he may need to go for the good of the club. I'm not ready to say that yet, but personally I'm giving him ten games and then evaluating from there.

In the end, I guess you could say 1864 summed it up best:

lets wait and see, no need to push the panic button just yet.

I really think the time to judge is after 10 games, lets wait till then...

I'm with him.

"We rejected a bid of 16-17 mill (NOK) the last time around, but the deal may go through now if the board agree."

Does this mean that Rovers haven't really upped the ante at all, just that Tromsø wanted to wait until nearer the end of the season to sell?

Thanks for the translation, tchocky... and thanks to all our other Scandinavian posters who are keeping us updated.

and terry henry is joining on loan as we speak !

Hmmm, must be Thierry's brother then, right 1864? Or perhaps George Weah's cousin?

I think I know what will happen with this Pedersen thing. We'll have agreed a fee with his club, he'll have signed his contract and just before the press conference to introduce him as a Rovers player, Chris Coleman will show up to hold talks with him and he'll end up signing for Fulham.

Please don't leave it 12 months Darth. Thoroughly enjoyed that post.

Agreed. Do come out a bit more often, Darth, as the messageboard is often in need of sensible, coherent posts like yours.

Another thing to add about D'Urso's performance... not sure if anyone else saw it, but Higginbotham should certainly have been penalized during his collision with Dickov in the penalty area in the 75th minute or so. There was a bit of contact between the two, and poor little Danny was crying that Dickov was holding his shirt, but the replay showed there was nothing really between the two... that is, until Higginbotham made an off-balance, flailing attempt at an overhead clearance that nearly wailed our diminutive Scot in the face. Say what you will about the contact beforehand, but Higginbotham's attempted clearance was a dangerous play in my book, and thus Rovers should have been awarded an indirect kick a few yards inside the penalty area. I suppose it's all academic now though...

I'm no longer angry as I have no expectation of this team and manager; they're not actually bad, they're just nothing, non-descript, uninspired, there is no spark of any sort. The pre-match hope of winning has died and I will turn up out of a sense of duty. I'm thoroughly disillusioned, hopefully the board will act in some way. We've no money to buy players, there is only one choice.

What's truly sad, Paul, is that I consider you one of the most level-headed posters on here... this isn't rover6 or Capt Kayos saying they've lost faith in Souness (with no disrespect at all meant to those two), it's a fan who clearly was pro-Souness from the get go and has now completely lost faith in the man. I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet, but I'm slowly starting to move directly onto the fence between the camps.

For any of you familiar with American baseball... I'm a diehard Phillies fan, and thier manager, Larry Bowa, is one of Philadelphia's favorite children. I love the guy--he's fiery, passionate, and emotional, a real throwback guy (hmmm, sounds like another manager I can think of). However, he's now in his fourth season as manager and the Phillies are badly underachieving and will miss the playoffs for the tenth straight year. Do I think it's all Bowa's fault? Not by any means. But there's an old expression in baseball that says, "You can't fire the players."

My point is this: at some point, a coach or manager has taken a team as far as he can, and can't take them any further. It's never completely their fault, but for some reason or another things just aren't working out anymore. Perhaps the players need to hear a new voice; perhaps the team is stale and needs an injection of new life. Whatever the case, it's usually clear that something has to be done, and it's very true that you can't fire the players.

Larry Bowa will be leaving at the end of this season, I'm sure of it. As for Souness... I really genuinely like the guy and think he's done a great job for the club, but perhaps it is time for him to move on. I don't think it's completely been his fault, but he's verging on the point where he may need to go for the good of the club. I'm not ready to say that yet, but personally I'm giving him ten games and then evaluating from there.

At this moment in time I have one foot in the Souness-out door...I'm prepared to wait until we have Neill, Thommo and De Pedro match fit before completely crossing the line...

Sums up my place on the fence right now as well, and you also brought up a point that I had forgotten to mention.

This team sorely misses anyone who can create anything whatsoever from midfield. Bazza's occasional surging runs are helpful, and Tugay's passing (when on song) is an effective weapon, but without Thommo the club has no one who is willing to take control of the ball, take people on and otherwise make things happen. Say what you will about Cristiano Ronaldo's dinky stepovers and theatrics, but the kid can plain and simply dribble a football and it really does open up a world of opportunity for his teammates.

Now I'm not comparing Thommo to that sissy pretty boy Man U player, but I am pointing out that he has a similar inclination to take people on when he gets hold of the ball. Emerton has shown time and time again that he's reluctant to do it; Ferguson's job is more to run the show from the center of the park; Tugay is a sublime passer but not much else; and (if reports are to be believed) de Pedro sounds like an excellent crosser, passer and dead ball specialist, but not exactly greased lightning with the football at his feet. In short, this club is absolutely crying out for Thommo to be given a run in the side, so here's hoping that he's healthy either for Arsenal this week or Man U this weekend.

BTW LeChuck, I knew you'd be working the night shift.

He used a formation for the first half that worked well away from home at the end of last season. We got down at the half, so he changed tactics because we were now playing catch up.

Funny how no one was criticizing playing 4 central midfielders after the Fulham match last season.

A good point, and it does show how some people simply can't put things into perspective.

Just to play devil's advocate though... I must point out that the club were in dire straits at that point last year, with injuries having taken a severe toll. Today Souness had virtually a full squad to choose from and came up with that unorthodox formation. Not saying that it couldn't have worked... just pointing out that it didn't.

I've had some fair time to reflect now, so while all of you over the pond (except possibly LeChuck) are in bed for the night, I'm finally composed enough to write down some coherent thoughts on the matter, with help from a few quotes pulled from the thread. First and foremost...

I disagree with you about the tactics.  I actually think he knows what he wants the team to do and in some respects it  is working.  In both of the 2 games we were probably the better team until we gave away a crap goal.  The problem was though that I couldn't really see us scoring.

When we change the formation we instantly look more like scoring but then also look more likely to concede.  My gripe is that whilst Souness clearly wants us to be harder to beat we are more or less the same as last season but more boring.

A very fair observation IMO. Unfortunately, as Scotty says: "I can also see what Souness is trying to do, unfortunately though he's not doing it very well." His idea of playing a battling side that's tough to break down works in theory, yet in reality, with the squad we have, it requires far too many people playing too uncomfortably out of position, and hence it fails to work in reality. The sooner Souness realizes that he can't get cute with the formation and begins rolling out a standard one that the players are more comfortable with, the better for the club's chances this season.

As for the game itself... Saints sustained periods of pressure, especially for the closing quarter hour of the first half and for some large stretches late on in the contest, but overall I thought Rovers had more than a fair share of the possession, especially for having that lineup and being on the road. True that Friedel didn't really look himself, but in reality there was nothing he could have done about the goals (and I blame the first on Short and Nissa, not on Emerton). The defending was good for stretches and absolutely shambolic at other times, and it really needs to be sorted ASAP before it drags the club into a full-fledged relegation fight before the end of September.

The goals themselves were beautifully taken, Barry's finish a clinical one and Dickov's strike well-deserved. Yorke didn't look that bad, but he really didn't offer much in the way of going forward, and I'd must prefer to see the pesky Dickov line up against Arsenal. Stead truly did look a class above the rest, and I hope he opens his account for the year soon--both to keep his confidence up and to keep the club up you might say.

As a sidenote, Emerton wasn't horrible today... true he didn't offer a whole lot going forward and he refused to really take on his man, but I certainly don't blame him for Short and Nissa's mix-up ("Well why don't we both take Beattie... wait, Phillips you say?"). Bear in mind that despite Stead's hand in Dickov's go-ahead goal, Emerton has to be the man that gets the lion's share of the credit for that.

And finally, the refereeing. Everything's already been said already for the most part, but after having a bit of a look at the replay, it's appalling how bad D'Urso really is. Being totally honest, I think he let Rovers get away with a lot of little fouls throughout the match, but then started yanking out yellows left and right when someone ###### him off. Not only was he terrible, he was terrible both ways and for the vast majority of the match, and his awarding of teh penalty combined with his stupidity in not sending off the twice-cautioned Ferguson is simply a measure of his gross incompetence.

I would put up with boring and picking up points for a while but boring and not winning is obviously not good enough... I can't see the point in getting rid now because Strachan apart I've not seen any decent suggestions to replace him and I think there is more risk of us going down with some of those.  However if we are going to play boring football then whilst I don't want him out then I can't say i'd be upset if he goes.

Meant to add that at times today in the first half I really did think that things just seem a bit stale now and maybe a change, any change wouldn't be a bad thing.

I've been a big supporter of Souness, and two games into the year is too early to call for his head, especially when you consider that Rovers were one terrible human error away from picking up a well-deserved point. (As a sidenote, it's interesting how the tide can turn in twenty minutes: after Dickov's goal, Sturrock looked well on his way to being fired whilst Souness relaxed, but at the final whistle it was almost a role reversal).

Having had time to think it over, I know that there can't be any knee-jerk reactions as regards the personnel and staff... it's probably not a completely sound argument, but Souness really has done a lot for the club and has earned a chance to at least prove himself over the first two months or so of the season. As for me, I'm giving him ten games. While I don't expect a certain point total at that point, it would certainly be nice for the club to have at least six more points by then... but as long as their performances (and formations) show significant improvement from the end of last year and the beginning of this year, I'll keep my hat in the pro-Souness ring.

Oh dear. Shocked- NOT I predicted a loss.

Oh come now, Jan. You always predict a loss, so I don't exactly see your prediction as divine foresight.

That being said, your point about Souness picking the first half travesty is, all too regrettably, true. His team selection certainly must improve.

Just heard the new's on radio Lancs that D'urso has recognised his mistake and that Ferguson could now miss the Arsenal game...........

It just gets better.

Not sure what you all did, but I actually laughed when D'Urso gave that penalty... I mean there was no sense in even complaining, because he's quite simply not fit to be a human being let alone a referee.

As for rover6's comments... I must say that I agree. The theory behind Souness' tactics isn't bad--it's just that tactics such as those rarely work in reality. Hopefully de Pedro will be fit soon enough to take up the left wing spot, because as it is the team lacks any sort of attacking threat from the left-hand side.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the coverage over here announced Rovers starting lineup as:

              Friedel

    Emerton    Short    Nissa
 Flitty                     Gray

      Tugay   Fergie   Matteo

         Stead     Yorke

Gutted.

Ref cost us the game.

Can't believe he gave the penalty there. Can't believe it.

Usually you can't say the ref cost the game.

This time you can.

D'Urso plain and simply sucks... he's a blind, useless f***** who should never be allowed near a football pitch for the rest of his life. How he makes that call in stoppage time in a tie game is absolutely beyond me.

do not expect a penalty

do not expect a good refereeing show

Truer words were never spoken.

I'd just like to announce to everyone that I've just successfully ordered Fox Sports World (which only recently became available), the U.S. affiliate that carries Sky Sports programming. That means that I'll be able to see Rovers play tomorrow--for the first time in over a year!

Can't wait for this one.

Despite all the negativity I feel at the moment, I have one devil saying we will win and one on the other shoulder saying we won't.

TWO DEVILS?!?!? Poor cap'n... most of us have the angel/devil combo. No wonder you're so negative all the time.

Brilliant! We've had "The Christmas Tree" now, thanks to Philly Rover and The Harwood Yankee (above) we've got "The Question Mark" formation 

Whilst I'd love to take credit for trying that, I must admit that it happened a bit by accident. Nice spot though, THY, you've made me look quite good.

Although I'd be more tempted to try this: -

              Friedel

     Emerton      Amoruso

                       Matteo    

                        Gresko

                           McEveley

                           Gray

                        Wilcox

                  de Pedro

              Stead



             Dickov

It's a lot of work for Emerton to cover the right hand side but I reckon he's up to it.

See, I don't know bob. I'm first of all curious as to why you'd drop Fitzgerald from the starting lineup. I mean, that's one less left footer in the squad, so replacing Fitzgerald with Dickov will ruin the carefully balanced nature of the formation. Secondly... why give Dickov a game anyway? He's over 20 years old so he must surely be past it.

give youth a chance leave fitz in the starting lineup

...Dickov is better than Cole on Saturdays evidence...

Whilst not an active member of the Souness out brigade, I have to vehemently disagree with this statement. I'll now shamelessly quote myself (from the "Paul Dickov signs" thread):

If Dickov is being brought in as a replacement for Cole, then yes, a mistake is being made.  If, as it seems, Dickov is being brought in to take Yorke's place, then it is an excellent move.  End of story.

I'll stick by that now. Dickov is a wonderful striker to have--he's the type of player that you love if he's at your club and hate if he's anywhere else. His non-stop pursuit and balls-out approach to the game would be an asset to any squad. But that being said, he's not the quality striker that this team is crying out for right now.

It's been said time and time again... Stead needs a creative and productive veteran striker paired with him in order to take some of the onus and pressure off his (still very young and slender) shoulders. Clubs will not worry about Dickov more than Souness... and Yorke, for as well as he played on Saturday, sounds like he's only truly effective when dropping behind the front two, and not as an out and out striker.

As such, letting go of Cole was a mistake. Yes he was a bit past it, and yes he was gobbling up huge wages, but he provided that extra bit of creativity up front, and his previous goalscoring exploits carried enough weight that the opposition was forced to mark him tightly (or at least more tightly than they would mark Yorke, Dickov, Gally or Jansen). IMO Stead cannot prosper as of yet if he's the number one threat for the club, the man that opposition defenses mark most tightly... he's just not ready to carry that burden at this point in his career. He needs a Cole or Phillips or Fowler or even a Sheringham to feed off of--a recognizable first choice striker who opposing defenses must respect enough to mark ahead of what they could very well see as a lucky young kid.

Which brings me to my final point, one which no one seemed to have thought of yet. If, by all accounts, Kanu was the man of the match on Saturday, and Rovers knew they lacked a cutting edge up front when they let go of Cole... THEN WHY THE HELL WEREN'T ROVERS IN FOR KANU WHEN HE WAS AVAILABLE ON A FREE THREE WEEKS AGO?

If you're going to enter your predictions or edit your existing ones, you must do so by 12:45 (English time) tomorrow!!!

My excuse is I've been away and only kust found this thread:

Champions: Arsenal

Rovers: 15 or 16

Everton: Relegated

The rest: Don't care

It's okay, Paul, I'll let it slide this time.

Based on lessons learned from last Saturday, here is the lineup we should put out:

              Friedel

   Neill   Short   Matteo   Gray

Thompson   Ferguson   Tugay   Gresko

           Stead   Yorke

Though I think we'll probably wind up seeing something like this:

              Friedel

     Emerton      Amoruso

              Matteo    Fitzgerald

                     Gresko

                        McEveley

                     Gray

                        Wilcox

                  de Pedro

              Stead

In all seriousness, I do think Rovers will win on Saturday--mainly due to the fact that I think Southampton are absolute crap. Sturrock seems out of his depth at this level, and I've picked Saints to go down this year... so I think that Rovers can and will take all three points this weekend. It won't be Rovers winning the match as much as it will be Soton losing it.

1-0 to the Rovers, Dickov to bungle one across after he comes on as a second half substitute.

Emerton is no way a right wing back

Really?

No, it's...

             Friedel

Emerton   Short   Amoruso   Gray

     Ferguson Matteo Gresko

            De Pedro

         Yorke    Stead

Excellent, Souness wins the "how many players can I play out of position despite having virtually a full squad" 2004/5 award, already. Congratulations.

Absolutely agreed, alex. Perhaps those who were at the match can shed some light on this for us, but if that was indeed the formation Rovers were playing, I'm well and truly baffled. It's one thing to scramble things up and shift people around when your club's beset by injuries in the middle of the season--but it's quite another entirely to start a new campaign off with some crazy ass formation like that.