It does give me goosebumps I must admit.

Just played that right through Stuart........Mrs. Fife wants to know if you're tired of living and want boring to death?

Burnley 2 up and cruising according to SSN.

Ipswich now 3 up.

We need another goal (or two even)

EDIT: Burnley had a player sent off.

Huddersfield now two up.

barnsley and huddersfield winning already.

And Burnley

What's a venkey?

He's just told you.......it's all down to the uneducated state of his phone.

I think all those asking why Givet hasn't been in the side need to remember his performance against Blackpool. Also Hanley and Dann have had a fairly good season.

Possibly play him at left back - but then it restricts the teams attacking ability - and many have questioned the wisdom of playing jim at left back.

Having said all that - full credit to Givet to putting contract issues etc to one side and putting in a performance. Also - do we need to congratulate GB in his man management skills ?

Yes I think we do......Taking it all round and allowing for the very difficult circumstances he has had to operate under, I would say Gary Bowyer has produced the best managerial performance we have seen since Allardyce was so disgracefully thrown out. GB most certainly deserves to be considered for the position on a permanent basis, and in a fair competition with any other candidates that are daft enough to want it. (And I don't think there will be too many of them either).

Is there anything actually happening on the pitch? So far not a single post has mentioned anything at all about the game. I am presuming it has actually started.

How do you restart play, if play stops to await a video replay on a goal or not, and the decision comes not to give a goal.?

The obvious way would be to re-start with a goalkick. I am assuming the ball had crossed the goal line in leading to the disputed "goal".

Berg/May went to United and are the exceptions to the rule. Le Saux did well at Chelsea as well. Duff relatively well at Chelsea too. What did Sherwood ever win? For the players from the title winning season, most didnt taste success later, and for most of those who left in later years most had their best days with us or didnt achieve the aspirations they supposedly had when they left us. Not a myth. Curse of the Rovers!

Hmmmmm!.......You have just made sure that no decent talent will ever join Rovers again.

wow me too, amazing, I was also thinking if I don't switch the light switch on and off 17 times tonight all my work colleagues will die.

where you guys thinking this too?

Hmmmm.......just do it 16 times by "mistake" and in the morning you'll be the boss.

But only of yourself.......what a shame;).

Accident or deliberate is not the issue for me, its the fact that people need to drink so much alcohol at football matches, surely Football should be the reason for attending the game!!

My thoughts go to the family of the lad who undeservedly lost his life, it shouldnt have happened, may he rest in peace!!

Maybe a total alcohol ban in football grounds is the answer (apart from the corporate boxes)Tragic incident and not good for our club!!

Exactly what we have had in Scotland for many years. You cannot buy any alcoholic drink of any kind inside the ground, nor can you take any into the ground in a bag or pocket. No bottles or flasks of any kind are allowed (no not even a vacuum flask of tea or coffee) and EVERY person is searched as you approach the turnstiles. It has worked very well and without any trouble or backlash at all.

how where they able to throw the bin in the first place surely its fixed in place???

Is anything fixed in place when a herd of wild beasts goes on the rampage?

the `new` generation are ultra viloent, disorderly and `extreme` because they have been brought up by crap parents who just totally neglect parental responsability and guidance by plonking their kids in front of a tv screen or video game system to `get them out of the way` while opening up their latest bottle of alchohol, or let`s face it, lighting up their next joint(members of my own family are no better). what is on tv or in movies? what is in video games? what is the message given to them by modern music? violence is cool, guns and knives are cool, treating ladies like whores is cool, earning wealth by criminal means is cool, being part of a gang is cool, physically dangerous activities are cool, football violence is cool and my biggest issue, ARROGANCE is cool.

too many people become parents for the wrong reasons when quite frankly they aren`t fit to be and that`s why we have youth that feel any kind of behaviour is acceptable and the more controversial it is, the cooler it is. simple as that.

I don't disagree with any of that S1M30, but i would just like to add that whilst a very significantly large part of the population does indeed act as you describe above, I also believe that it is still a minority of the total population that does so. A siginificantly large minority, but thankfully still a minority. And therefore it is not yet too late to act to correct this situation; it simply needs the partof the population that is still in the majority to make a decision that it is high time to act to reverse the trend. This obviously would need the election of a Government that makes restoration of Law and Order a major priority and stands for election with this high on it's agenda. So far I am not aware that any party has declared sufficient political will to do so. Therefore it is up to the public at large that want true Law and Order back again to make their feeelings known and that they are willing to subjugate other poilitical aims like economics strategy etc in order to get some order and stability back into society. Then and only then can we return to normal political agenda's and pusue our differencees of opinion.

I agree, although being 17 I can't say I know that much of an issue to discuss possible solutions. Although going through towns at night is often intimidating, which shouldn't be the case.

On a footballing note, a lot of the good work done since the Taylor Report seems to be being undone. Recently, there have been more instances of football disorder. United fans at Barnsley/Birmingham, Rovers fans today / racist chanting, Burnley fans kicking off at Bolton.. the hooligan element is creeping back into football. Can't say I'm sure why.

I'm not against people having a drink, or even a bit drunk. It's when it starts to affect them in a negative manner that it is unacceptable. I'm sure people aren't naive enough to think I've never drank, but when I do I do so responsibly. Certain sections of society seem incapable of doing so.

OK Sambo I can now see that you are seeing things in the right way. I am sorry if I appeared to have misjudged you from your original post; it was just that I got the wrong impression from your words "I don't think they intended to hurt anyone". That to me seemed as though (while not condoning their actions) you were suggesting that as an excuse for their actions. My contention is that there cannot ever be ANY excuse for the kind of actions these people took. You would have to be a complete imbecile to not realise that throwing a bin around in a dense crowd could ever do anything else but cause injury or worse. I do now see that you wer NOT intending that as an excuse for their behavior.

In your desperation to be outraged you have completely misread/misinterpreted what Sambo said.

Anyway, good to hear the lad is still with us, fingers crossed he pulls through and certain members of our travelling support learn their lesson without the need for tragedy.

So how do you interpret his words that say "but I dont think they intended anyone to get hurt"? How can anyone start throwing a bin around in a densely packed concourse and not expect someone to get hurt. It is absolutely inevitable that someone is VERY likely to be hurt or seriously injured if they do that. Which is exactly what did happen. How could anyone other than a complete idiot expect any other outcome?

I'm not saying I'd throw a bin around. But going to the away games, a lot of them are idiots, and in their drunken stupor (some of them are absolutely smashed) they do ridiculous things. It's wrong, they deserve to be punished, but I don't think they intended for anyone to get hurt - just their lack of a brain means they see it as acceptable behaviour. I never said it's "just fun", but I don't think there is sufficient evidence yet to suggest there was the intention to kill someone. I was told that the lads were (stupidly) throwing it amongst themselves, but who knows.

Fair enogh Sambo. What you have just said there shows that you obviously think like myself and all the others on here that they are behaving very stupidly whilst under the influence of alcohol. But the question still remains as to how have we as a society arrived at this situation where large groups of people behave in these criminally irresponsible ways in such large numbers and so often. Violence fueled by drink and/or drugs has become the "norm" in virtually every town and city centre every weekend and is costing the earth in policing and NH time and facilities. And the worst aspect of it all is that because it has become the "norm" it is apparently accepted now as virtually inevitable and something that "just is". I cannot and never will accept that thinking. It is not inevitable simply because I and all people of my age and younger as well can easily remember when these things did NOT happen; even at weekends!!

I fully accept that there have always been instances of people being drunk and disorderly, but at the same time it was NEVER the norm. It was always a SMALL minority and the police would usually arrest the more obstropulous ones, while sending the more co-operative ones home to sleep it off. All done very peaceably. Whilst large scale fighting in pubs, clubs or in the streets was indeed a very rare occurence and when it occasionally did happen it was sure to make the front pages of the newspapers. And the reason why it did not happen very much was that the vast majority of the population was single mindedly horrified and outraged by any such behaviour and everyone knew it. They would quickly find themselves virtual outcasts in the community at large if they made a habit of loutish behaviour. That is what has changed over the last 50 years, and the politicians and educationalists have a lot to answer for their increasingly "head in the sand " approach to facing up to an increasing problem.

People are jumping the gun a bit implying those involved are scum. Apparently the injured man was involved in the bin throwing (not sure if it's true though). I don't think there was any intention for anyone to get seriously hurt, it was (sadly) a bunch of ###### up lads acting the goat. Obviously if there was malice, the person needs to be severely dealt with, but I think people (including me) need to know the facts first.

Pray he pulls through.

How can you even think that? Please explain to all of us that don't follow the logic in your statement how exactly do people think that throwing a bin around in a crowd of people is "just acting the goat" or "just having a laugh" or any of the other pathetic excuses that are routinely trotted out today for what is actually criminally irresponsible loutish behaviour. How ANYONE can even begin to imagine that this sort of behaviour is "just fun" is beyond belief, and shows yet again just how far down the road to ruination society has gone over the last 50 years or so.

Seriously Sambo I am genuinely interested in hearing what you have to say by way of explanation and how you arrived at the conclusion you stated above (in bold).

There is a clue in the term 'top payers' Fife. And we could be given the money that is being wasted on sick notes and n'er do wells. The few top players can have longer contracts if they agree to sign whilst newcomers must aspire to it.

When you say it like that Theno it all sounds so simple and reasonable. So let me ask you a few practical questions:

Assuming your idea was deemed acceptable by our board, and they try to implement it.....what do you think would happen next?

1) All our existing players would be in revolt except perhaps the one or two that actually qualify for a big pay rise. How would you deal with that situation?

2) The EPL and probably the FA, FIFA and the players union would all raise all kinds of objections (each for their own agenda) and it would almost certainly be forbidden. How would you get round that little set of problems?

3) Assuming all these diffficulties were resolved after several years discussion and the idea was given full approvals from all those bodies, and further assuming that Rovers were still a PL side you go about offering the new style contracts to all your players: But then you find that very few of your existing players would qualify for high wages and/or long contracts so you are faced again with all but one or two players that actually want to play for you. And meanwhile other PL clubs are having the same problems with all their players as well. So the upshot is that once again only the super rich clubs will be able to attract the best players and the existing hiearchy will prevail. Clubs like Rovers, Wigan, Burnley etc will be even more stuffed than they are now.

CUE: Lancashire Utd!!

Cos he'll no doubt be on a back hander to get BRFC to reduce the asking price.

Who can blame BRFC for not shelling out on transfer fees when this type of blackmail is permitted. As I've said before we should be top payers yet should pay no transfer fees whatsoever and offer short contracts to all but a very few.

This idea of yours Theno........you have dragged it out and run it past us all on numerous occasions, so as one who always thinks things through properly you must have an answer to this question:

How many top-half PL level players do you think we would have gained if the board had been allowed to follow your strategy and had actually done it over (let's say) the last 3 seasons? Obviously I mean players in addition to the few that we already have. I look forward to your answer with fully reasoned argument, but I won't be holding my breath.

Great minds think alike RVR

This is true.....unfortunately benni is not oneof the great minds!

I understand more about football than every member of this silly little forum (bar myself) put together. This is mainly down to my excellent contacts within the game (past and present) sharing their knowlege with me, as well as my excessively high IQ.

To say nothing of your excessively big head!!

I'm getting De Ja Vu from a few seasons back when he was angling for a move to Chelsea.

And even further back when he was having a strop at Porto. He used exactly the same tactics there until Rovers moved in to "rescue" him.

I was lucky enough to spend some time in the company of this true gentleman in the airport lounge in Eindhoven. He was on his first spell as a manager there and he put up with a few of us who had the temerity to pester him. He had no airs or graces and gave his time freely and without resentment. It was a good experience.

I met him again when PSV played a pre-season friendly at Ewood, I was with the sponsors of the game entertaining customers in one of the lounges. There was no requirement for him to give his time but he still made his way in and proferred those who were interested a brief but warm hello.

Newcastle has lost one of its kindest sons, a miner who grew into a footballing legend but remained 'ordinary' and without pretentions. If only football had more like him in the current generation.

Sir Bobby Robson, may you find peace and may your family be carried through this period of loss with care and the love of God.

Amen to that. A very sad day for football. A thoroughly nice down to Earth guy and a true gentleman. RIP.

I was playing Devil's advocate Fife (not that this thread really needed it to spark debate!).

Here's an article from back in October. He does sound genuinely sorry there, although we all know how cheap words are. All he's really done wrong since then is to get sent off and have a shout about Shearer being a bad manager. I guess you could argue that shows his 'role model' bit was a lie though.

Well thanks for that LC. I was not aware of any of that, if I had been I would not have said there is no evidence of remorse. All I can say now though is that those were certainly the right sounds he was making back then, and as people have pointed out until his latest transgessions this last weekend he appears to have been clean. Maybe there is a case for giving him a little more time, but equally he himself needs to try his utmost to control his anger and impulsive foul play on the pitch. If he could do that and not go over the top as he just did when his manager rebukes him for his bad behaviour, then in time people will get the message that he has indeed reformed, and would then find him perfectly acceptable.

But he himself has to understand that all this takes time; it wont happen in just a few weeks after coming out of prison. IF he really is determined to reform he needs to grit his teeth and keep plugging away at SHOWING he has genuinely reformed on and off the pitch. I know it is hard, but he has to understand that the situation he finds himself in is of his own making. The public in turn has to look at his recent record and keep on updating in their own minds, until eventually most right minded people will accept him as a reformed character.

Well...if we're talking morals, you could argue it's a bad reflection on us that the vast majority are against employing an ex-convict who should be considered to have already been punished for their mistakes...

No LC that is not the case at all. If you take the trouble to read back about 24 hrs on this thread you will see that I was very specific in stating that if Barton had shown any signs whatsoever to the general public that he was genuinely sorry for ANY of the crimes he has committed on or off the field, then that would be a completely different case than where we are at present. Sadly there is absolutely no evidence anywhere that he has shown the slightest remorse for any of his actions, and conversely there is plenty that points to the opposite case.

I re-iterate that IF Barton shows genuine remorse (not just empty words) that he is sorry for his actions and wants to make amends then I would accept him at face value.