Think this schematic (not my own) proves what OEB is saying.

McEvoy, McGrath, Stapleton and Beglin should all be in. Steven Reid and Joe Haverty were both better than Mahon.

36 minutes ago, Kamy100 said:

I was listening to the excellent "price of football" podcast (https://priceoffootball.com/podcast/) this morning and they covered the new points based immigration system that the government have proposed and the affect it would have on football.

Rovers have invested in a european scouting network which is likely to be redundant as the new system would make it difficult to sign players from outside the UK.

Any player would need 70 points to be allowed to work here.  A job offer from an approved employer would give the player 20 points.  The club would have to demonstrate that locally they cannot get players at the appropriate skill level, if they did that then that would be a further 20 points.  The players passing an English test would give him a further 10 points and an annual salary of over £25,600 would give them the final 20 points.  

The FA are backing the new system and want to use it to ensure that clubs use UK talent rather than look elsewhere so the "appropriate skill level" is the one that they are focussing on and in initial discussions the English test that is going to be set will be at a high level so many players would fail that or they will need to start preparing for moves to the UK 12 months in advance in order to ensure that their English is an appropriate level.

The flip side to this is that the pricing for UK players is going to sky rocket, our academy has been doing an excellent job of producing players that have made it to the first team, suddenly they become even bigger assets.

I found the discussion interesting so I though that I would start a seperate thread.

Really useful information Kamy. Certain areas of Europe might not have a problem with the English. I've spent a lot of time in Portugal where I have been amazed at how good the children speak English and not only in the Algarve where it is vital for their future. I also worked for a large German multi-national where employment depended on working knowledge of English. Which probably means for some players it all hinges on the appropriate skill level. Wonder whether small clubs might be able to claim they cannot get the young players because the large Academies sign all the talented ones.

1 hour ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

No argument from me either about Tony receiving recognition, although I'd prefer it if they were able to give him some practical help at the same time.

However, the idea of a Tony Parkes Stand was a supporters' idea, that built up a head of steam. None of us know whether the club has other ideas for naming the stands in the light of FFP . etc.

I know I had my own suspicions about the timing of the Ronnie Clayton mural, but my argument here is that it is not reasonable to lambast the club, simply because it does not immediately sign up to the stand idea, generated online. That does not necessarily mean disregard for Tony

Totally agree with you. My point was that the club has been placed in a problematic situation with this one. Like you I would prefer practical help to Tony as the priority. Beyond that recognition would be nice but not in a manner that suggests it has been brought about by his illness. I don't think it is arguable that he deserves something at Ewood to remind us of him. My suggestion was that if he was included in recognition with other luminaries that would not arise. There was more to the man than just player and manager. Along with Faz and Butch he was the reliable choice when the club was represented at social functions, was often sent to scout players and the opposition and was Jack's ears when he left for Jersey. I think this is one that needs thinking about and I don't blame Waggott for taking his time, as long as there is an end result. There is the additional complication that he was treated disgracefully when he was dismissed so like I said a lot to take on board.

Just now, tomphil said:

Considering Parkes has probably been around since the early 70's i don't get the 1995 angle in regards to him at all.

Give him the accolade he deserves, something long overdue anyway before any mention of his current situation.

Nothing to do with Parkes. Just trying to point out that we should remember that the club owes a debt to those who built it over 150 years. Perhaps the 1995 was misleading. No argument from me about him receiving recognition. I think though if you will check out Jim Forrest's past you will find an equally deserving case.

To be fair the club perhaps needs to be careful about what they do regarding Tony Parkes. Quite a lot of fans believe, like LV, that the naming of the stands was an attempt to lower dissent. Paying due tribute to Tony Parkes, whilst timely,  might create some negative reaction particularly if the gesture is not deemed adequate or a publicity stunt. Paying tribute to old players of similar merit at the same time might be a way forward. Jim Forrest, Harry Healless and Bill Eckersley have similar claims to Parkes and finding some way of paying tribute to all four would display a feeling that this club was founded in 1875 not 1995. Personally I have always believed that the club should honour a founder by creating the T J Syckelmore Hot Dog Stall.

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Somebody mentioned Bill Eckersley was a bit of a practical joker. There's a photo on the internet of Rovers training before the 1960 Cup Final. The lads are doing sprint training on the track between the pitch and the main stand. Dougan is just breasting the tape that a couple of the players are holding. The rest of the players are sat on the wall watching. Bill is sat there with the leg of his shorts pulled up, quite clearly exposing himself. Meat and two veg on display.

I've got exactly the same photo in a Rovers history book and the offending organ has been coloured in to match the colour of his shorts but the internet photo is un censored.

They used to reckon that Bill did stand up as well as any professional comic. He and Jack Campbell were great jokers but Bill once got one over on him. Staying away he shinned down the drain pipe into Campbell's room, clad in a balaclava and took his watch and wallet.

1 hour ago, CambridgeRover said:

"Meanwhile, Blackburn are ready to appoint ex-Leeds winger Bruno Ribeiro as their European scout." 

 

Hmmmm?

Don't think this is correct. Ribeiro only returned from Angola in the last days of December to take over a club in the Portuguese Fourth Division. Pretty sure that the guy is Bruno Reis who has been at the Rovers for about three years as scout of the opposition teams.

10 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

That’ll be Tosin, who I don’t think moved at all throughout!

My thoughts too Tyrone although it was two midfielders not Adarabioyo. Actually if you look at the sequence I'm impressed by the improvement Mowbray and Venus have made to the defence. They played a near perfect off side trap, only Lenihan a bit out of sync but the other three moved in line and at the same speed, completely nullifying the most dangerous possibility the slipped through pass. This forced the guy to shoot and unless he hits a fantastic shot there is no danger and the defence has done its job. The shot was good but not world beating, the problem is that Walton just got a big hand to it. Good goalkeepers flick the wrist and divert it wide. Not to sure how much blame you can give Walton. I don't think it's in his skill set. To blame any of the defence is to me wrong. You can't play off side and still be expected to be goal side of your man. The laws of momentum were that Middlesbrough were moving forward and the defence was coming out. Therefore if the ball rebounds there is only one winner. Ironically the guy who had fallen into the trap was the one who profited.

13 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I wonder if the lads who played in Mathews testimonial asked for a fee ? Dougie played and starred in that game against the cream of world football so he obviously didn't bear a grudge.

Cheung Chi-Doy was actually from Hong Kong, he played 2 games scoring 1 goal for Blackpool in the 1960-61 season.

Was once present when Tom Finney was asked about Matthews demanding a fee and he just said- that's just Stan. Eckersley and Ramsey used to room together with England and Eckersley reckoned that when he woke up Ramsey always said "Good Morning William", was the only one who never called him Bill.

9 hours ago, Ianrally said:

Tyrone may remember better than I do but I seem to think that Bill Eckersley’s testimonial, many stars of his era turned out including Tom Finney, but Stan Mathews didn’t because he requested a fee to play. 
It is also in the back of my mind that Eckersley’s partner at full back in the England team was Alf Ramsey.

18 April 1961 Bill Eckersley Ewood Park 9-11

Blackburn Rovers-R.Jones, J.Bray, K.Taylor (D.Whelan), A.McEvoy, M.Woods, R.Clayton, B.Douglas, E.Crossan, T.Briggs, R.Vernon, R.Langton

Bill Eckersley XI- Eddie Hopkinson, J.Armfield, W.Eckersley, M.Setters, N.Franklin, J.Campbell, Cheung Chi Doy, W.Mannion, T.Finney, S.Mortensen, R.Charlton

Scorers BR Vernon (5), Crossan (2), Douglas, Briggs BE-Charlton (5), Finney 2 (1 pen), Setters, Mannion, Mortensen, Campbell

Matthews had agreed to play but on the day asked for a fee. Eckersley went to Blackpool that morning to persuade him to play without because no-one was getting paid but he still refused so Eckersley picked up the young Chinese lad and brought him back to play.

4 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The pen picture of Bill Eckersley says he only played one game in the top division, his debut game in our last match before relegation. Although he played most of his career in the second division he was still playing when we returned to the first division in the 1958-59 season.

Yes quite correct. Comes of using a childhood memory that he had so many caps and only one First Division appearance. He played the season after promotion until he got injured. Have asked Kamy to amend wording.

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Could I also ask @K-Hod if calling a fellow Rovers fan ‘ignorant’ is as bad as ‘clueless’? In the interests of fairness...They seem equally as bad to me? 

So you think this is worse than making a totally wrong statement and labelling six players as insignificant and worthless.

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Could I also ask @K-Hod if calling a fellow Rovers fan ‘ignorant’ is as bad as ‘clueless’? In the interests of fairness...They seem equally as bad to me? 

4 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Seems like you’re the one who’s all angry pal. You’re the warrior, Not me.

Edinho was crap, as were most of the rest who turned up, took a wage and skulked back off to Portugal. If I met the guys dad I’d be pretty happy to tell him that too. In fact I could prob get a few of the squad from that time to stand with me in agreeance whilst I told his dad. ???

Gomes was finished too and defo on his last pay day. Crap ??

 

Would enjoy seeing you stand up in a few bars in LIsbon I could name and calling Nuno Gomes crap.

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Strange that you’re still going on about mate. You bored?

Only of keyboard warriors like you. Would you tell Edinho's father, a fair footballer himself, to his face that that his son was a Portuguese no mark. And if you're including Nuno Gomes in that group it demonstrates nothing other than a complete ignorance.

Just now, Oldgregg86 said:

Weren’t Henley and Lowe local

Henley yes, Lowe was from Leigh but his family were long standing Rovers' fans.

6 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

It was a joke mate. Lighten up!!

Strange that you continue the thread with no admission that your original statement was entirely incorrect. 

9 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Who’s JA? ??‍♂️?

Interesting that your response is an attempt at legal pedantry rather than any attempt to justify the veracity of your original statement.

Just now, bluebruce said:

If he's of similar quality to Raya, too, I don't see why.

As far as we know, TM didn't have it in for Raya. He just thought the money would help him trade. This guy will be far cheaper. He can still buy another in summer, as is meant to be the plan.

What I was alluding to was that he is a small keeper with lightning fast reflexes. TM said that he wanted a big man to dominate the area. That's not Ramos.

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

100%...what on earth does the current crop of scouts in Portugal have to do with the time JA levered Portugese no marks into Rovers for his own personal gain?

You'd have trouble if JA opted for litigation. Nuno Gomes signed after his agent (his brother) trawled him around Europe looking for a last big contract. Nuno Gomes recommended Fabio Nunes which brought his agent Marco Correia de Oliveira in contact with Shebby Singh. He convinced him that because of the low compensation calculations for young players in Europe it was financially advantageous to sign young Portuguese players, which was how the next three players arrived. The final one, Nuno Henrique, was Shebby's  attempt at free lancing where he was conned by Academica. Anderson was well off the Ewood scene by then, apart from pleading for a new contract for his son. 

8 hours ago, Angry_Pirate said:

A few sunny days in South Portugal for the staff I would guess... The whole trip sounds similar to a stag do I once went on! ?

Or maybe they will unearth the next Ruben Neves...?

If they were interested in a Tondela player it was probably the goalkeeper Claudio Ramos. He's one of the best in Portugal and out of contract in June. However he's very similar to Raya which would tend to discount this.

5 hours ago, JoeH said:

Incomings are pretty much impossible to predict, I think this window will be all about the outgoings. We need to cut the dross from the wage bill, get our exciting 23's players out on loan at EFL clubs, and sort out Charlie Mulgrew once and for all. Have him do the half time draw on Monday or something, give him a nice goodbye, but he's never playing centre-back at Rovers again.

 

John Buckley to Morecambe or Oldham - Clubs aren't too far away from home, both are League Two sides that have a high chance of going down, and this loan could probably give Buckley a little bit of pressure to deal with, in a high risk and high importance relegation scenario where he HAS to perform.

Richie Smallwood, Samuel Hart, Dominic Samuel & Ben Gladwin to be Released - All players mentioned here are simply not good enough for this team, are very unlikely to play any serious game time this year for the first team, and need moving away from the wage bill. These players combined would allow for one big signings wages for the season.

Joe Rankin-Costello to Bolton or Accrington Stanley - JRC is a League One level player, maybe slightly higher, in my opinion. A top quality, versatile winger. A short term loan locally, at a team like Bolton in League One, with a little bit of pressure on a player who's very close to first team chances, would do him the world of good. If we want to make some money from the loan and they can't afford, which is plausible, then Accrington Stanley is probably another good option.

Charlie Mulgrew to Wigan (Permanent) - The Wigan set-up like him, he's running down a contract and is well above the age of 30. The chances of him featuring for our side again are slim, and removing a probably fairly high wage from the club would be really helpful going into this window and the next.

Tom White & Matty Platt to Barrow (Extended Loan) - I think an extension to Tom White and Matty Platt's current loan deals at Barrow would be fairly well received. White especilly has been impressive for the Under 23's and could have a future with us. Matty Platt is a bit of a conundrum, and potentially won't make it with us long term. 

Joe Grayson to Blackpool - Will cause debate this one, but working under Dad Simon, in a promotion battle scenario could be great for Grayson. Anybody who's seen him play knows that on the ball he's got great feet and finds a lovely pass, but right now he's lacking the physicality of a central defender. A stint in League One against some physical strikers could do him the world of good, especially given that Blackpool may lose a defender in the window.

 

All added together, these outgoings, permanent and loan, would probably open up at least £30,000pw for the wage bill, if not even nearer £40,000pw. That's more than enough for a Rhian Brewster (if that's the clubs plan), or for some end of contract players.

Given the laws of contract I'd be interested to know how you arrive at the savings you quote.

16 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Bob Crompton scoring more own goals than goals sounds a fairly unique achievement in such a long career. Maybe they were a lot more common back then. I’m also pretty sure my great-grandad ran the same pub on Audley Range as did Cromptons dad.

Own goals were seldom assigned by reporters. Crompton's contributions are taken from newspaper reports which state that he had the final touch. As far as I can gather one of the reasons is that he often tried to protect the goalkeeper and tried to block a lot of shots. It was well known that before he trusted a new goalkeeper he would spend a lot of time covering him.

Goalkeeping coaches (and the goalkeepers they coached) Terry Gennoe 1991- Jun 1997 b. Shrewsbury 16 March 1953 (Bobby Mimms, Tim Flowers, Matt Dickins, Frank Talia, Shay Given, Chris McCrone) Roy Tunks Jul 1997- October 2004 b. Wuppertal 21 January 1951 (Brad Friedel, Alan Fettis, Anthony Williams, Chris McCrone, Gary Stewart, Alan Kelly, John Filan,Tim Flowers, Michael Bingham, Alan Miller, Ryan Robinson, Keiron Renton, David Stevenson, Peter Enckelman, David Yelldell) Kevin Hitchcock October 2004-June 2008 b.Camden Town 5 October 1962 (Brad Friedel, Steve Drench, David Yelldell, Peter Enckelman, Richard Lee, Frank Fielding, Jason Brown, Bjorn Bussman,Guunar Nielsen) Eric Steele June 2008-August 2008 b.Wallsend 14 May 1954 (Jason Brown, Frank Fielding) Bobby Mimms August 2008-December 2012 b. Bulmer,York 12 October 1963 (Paul Robinson, Jason Brown, Mark Bunn, Andreas Arestidou, Bjorn Bussman, Jake Kean, Frank Fielding, Matt Urwin, Chris Dilo, Seb Usai, Gergorz Sandomierski) John Keeley January 2013-November 2015 b. Plaistow 27 July 1961 (Jake Kean, Seb Usai, Gergorz Sandomierski, Matt Urwin, Chris Dilo,David Raya,Simon Eastwood,Paul Robinson, Jason Steele,Ryan Crump) Laurence Batty November 2015 –Jun’16 b. Westminster 15 February 1964 (Jason Steele, David Raya, Simon Eastwood, Ryan Crump,Andy Fisher) Phil Hughes Jul’16-Feb’17 b.Belfast 19 November 1964 (Jason Steele, David Raya, Andrew Fisher,Josh Powell) Ben Benson Mar'17- (Jason Steele, David Raya, Andrew Fisher, Charlie Albison, Aaron Dillon,Oliver Byrne,Jayson Leutwiler,Christian Walton,Joe Hilton) Benson played in goal for a couple of junior teams in the Carlisle area before deciding to become a coach, specialising in goalkeeping.

7 hours ago, JHRover said:

Incredible how much time has been and gone under their ownership. 

At my age I was too young to really enjoy the golden era of the early to mid 90s and wasnt old enough to be able to go to the European games abroad in the 2000s. The point at which I was able to travel and immerse myself in Rovers was in the late Hughes era of 2007-08. Unfortunately for me 9 of the 12 years since then have been dire. Bad timing.

As for Venkys - I can't think of a single thing in 9 years that they have improved at Rovers. 9 years and god knows how many millions of pounds and not a single element of the club is better than it was when they arrived.

Financially it is a disaster zone.

Footballing wise we are nowhere near.

Comercial/Corporate - regression

Infrastructure- zero investment beyond essential maintenance and it shows 

Boardroom- almost an insult to compare to what it was.

All the while smaller clubs without the 'benefit' of billionaire owners and Walkers legacy have caught up and overtook us.

Simple question for Waggott at the start of the next consultation meeting -

Steve, please can you name one single thing at Rovers that has benefited from Venky involvement in the last 9 years?

If not, why should we be grateful at being £150 million in debt to them for it?

 

 

 

In those nine years with the club sinking inexorably all we have received in the way of communication are reports on how things are improving and how the future is bright. Only Lambert has ever dissented from the party line. The consultation meetings are a waste of time since it only gives a platform to those with a vested interest to propagate further spin. Hats off to those who attempt to put them on the spot but the cynic in me tells me that evasion, obfuscation and lies will prevail.