I'm not too sure but I thought we get about 250 grand for each Sky appearance, not too sure about PPV.

As for the 5.15 kick off times- seems a good idea to me. Last time we kicked off around that time in the top flight was Man Utd at home and walloped them 2-0. Great atmosphere, fantastic day and then straight out for a few celebratory jars, Some people seem like they are going to moan about anything new. While I can understand people complaining about Monday night games I can't really understand what is so bad about a 5.15 kick off time unless people have to travel a very long distance. It's not like Saturday TV is any good...who would rather watch the Lottery draw and Stars in Your Eyes than be at Ewood cheering on the team?

While lower attendances for the televised matches are hardly to be thought of as a good thing, Rovers earn far more from Sky for a televised game than they would by selling an extra couple of thousand tickets. TV money allows us to compete in the post-Walker era and means that we don't have to rely quite so much on attendances (although they are stil obviuously important). This is important because if you look at the teams that finished directly above and below us last season: Spurs and Man City, both get far higher gates than us, especially Man City and as Spurs charge their fans a fortune they no doubt bring in much more through the gates financially than we do. If we had to compete with these teams by relying on gates we'd soon find ourselves in a lower division. The Sky Sports TV money has been the possibly the greatest leveller in football since the minimum wage. Teams like Bolton, Charlton, ourselves and Leicester (before O'Neill left) can compete as they are guaranteed so much TV money each year. Unfortunately the Champions League has led to the very top clubs now being in almost a league of their own. So.....yes, the kick off times are irritating but Rovers need them to regularly stay in the top flight. Besides...their coverage of the game is fantastic and puts ITV and, to a lesser extent, the BBC to shame.

The United and Liverpool games should still attract large crowds despite being on Sky, as they have done in the past. Two years ago we played Liverpool on a Sunday lunchtime and got almost 29 thousand which is almost a sell out at Ewood, last year when we played United, also on Sky, the crowd wasn't much down. Rovers fans always seem to come out for the big league games, regardless of whether it is on TV or not. As for the likes of Fulham or Birmingham at home...we ain't likely to fill the place even if you let people in for a tenner, so we may as well get some Sky money for the games.

Carsely (did we really stoop that low?)

A penalty taker extraordinaire - but not much good at anything else.

I might be wrong, but wasn't he our top scorer in our first season back in div 1?

Yep, in what was probably our worst season in almost the last thirty years when considering how we expected to do, Crasley was top scorer with 11 goals (ten league, one cup). However eight (eight!!) of these goals were penalties, meaning he only actually scored three from open play all season.

It doesn't get any better when you look at who were next highest scorers on the list for that season...Ostenstad and Ashely Ward, both with eight goals each. (shudder....)

IN 1989 I had only just turned 12 but even I remember that either Courtney or Howard Gayle (for missing the pen in the first leg) was the scapegoat.

It doesn't need to be a player to be a scapegoat; just someone (anyone) to blame for it all.

England scapegoats -

World Cup 86 - Diego Maradona (cheating fisting Argie...) just coming ahead of naughty Ray Wilkins throwing the ball at the ref in the game against Morocco.

Euro 88 - For generally being rubbish, Bobby Robson. That's what three defeats out of three does for you.

Italia 90 - Probably Chris Waddle. Pearce cried a lot so we felt sorry for him but Waddle's penalty went into orbit and is still apparently circling some distant planet to this day.

Sweden 92 - Turnip Taylor.

USA 94 - Truly Turnip Taylor for not even getting us there! Would have been interesting to see how England would have been received over there in the World Cup. Especially as we even let them beat us 2-0 the year before just to be nice/ because we were rubbish (take your pick).

Euro 96 - Southgate. Even his mum asked "why didn't you just hit it?"

World Cup 98 - Beckham with that nancy little flick. The effigies on the lamp posts were a bit harsh though at West Ham. Those 'loveable' cockneys eh?!?

Euro 2000 - An assortment of riches, so many to choose from... Phil Neville/Keegan/Mcmanaman/the fans/the police/the media/the World Cup bid etc etc

World Cup 02 - Seaman mainly...

This time - A Swiss ref? Heskey for that foul against France? Sven? Beckham's missing two penalties and being too tired?

Yep...we always need a scapegoat when England go out! Now I can't remember an international tournament before 86 but wasn't the likes of Peter Bonetti, Don Revie and even Sir Alf Ramsey (sacked in 73) scapegoats then???

It's time we moved on and wished the other teams the best of luck. Only two years to wait before another gutting knockout and the search for someone to blame...

Kevin Moran was the captain in the promotion year (and in the play off final) as well as in the first season back in the top flight, Sherwood(the vice captain) took over the captaincy when Moran's age and injuries caught up with him in the 93/94 season.

So... think it went Keeley (captained the Full Members Cup win and clumsily nearly dropped the cup) - Reid (if Robert remembers right as I can't remember who followed Keeley) - Moran - Sherwood - Carsely (did we really stoop that low?) - Flitcroft - Ferguson.

No idea who was before Killer Keeley...Fazackerley?

I'm a bit concerned...I really do hope they have some revolving doors at Stamford Bridge or the doorman will be permanently doing his shoulder in with all the comings and goings he has to hold the door for.

Less than a year after they bought him, it is being suggested that they are happy to let Juventus take Mutu off their hands. Then again...the article is by our old friend Alan 'Rovers will have £10 million to spend this summer" Nixon so whether or not you believe it will come to pass is up to you.

Juventus enter talks over Mutu

Does anyone have any info about were to stop in Bray? Where did you stop last time, those who went? More importantly...how much was it?

PS- Wait, is it actually in Dublin??? Forget about that bit above then...

The questions shouldn't be about Duff himself though but rather how on earth we sold the two D's (Duff and Dunn) for over £20 million and yet twelve months later are telling the LET there is no money for anything but bargain purchases.

So you'd like us to keep being in major debt? Read the financial statements from last year and you'll get your answer (which you've already gotten time and time again, but you seem a bit thick about it).

Absolute rubbish. Where on earth did I say anything about wanting the club to be in major debt? The simple fact of the matter is that we have sold Taylor, Duff and Dunn in the past twelve months yet have little money at all to spend. While some of the money was set aside for debt repayment, where has the rest apparently gone? Surely not all on Ferguson and Reid? I've never advocated spending large amounts on transfers but I did hope we'd have modest amounts to be able to rebuild the squad for the next few years after Duff and Dunn left. This isn't what Souness is telling the papers. Oh and I'll ignore your personal insult as I usually expect better from you...

FLB, you must ask Lee, Blueboy or SteB what my accent is like

Additionally, SR is not a "native" aussie either

For your next hol FLB, come down under, SR and myself like a good afternoon out with likeminded Rovers supporters, but you have got to like an ale or three

Go on, admit it...you're all aborigines really.

You'll all be going walkabout in a minute.

For once in a blue moon England come out on top...and no sour grapes from 'Aussies' (speaking in Lanky twang) can take away that just now...

Don't assume that all the Aussie on the MB have Lanky accents, there's some of us here who weren't born in the UK.

Yes I know but I wasn't referring to you native Aussies (well..not native Aussies but you know what I mean)...just a bit of gentle ribbing of Dave Birch who brought the topic back up to the top.

Donb't take it so seriously...it isn't long until you'll be beating us in the cricket so at least let us us have that rugby victory to console us!!! We need that!

What have been the results between the two countries when the match has been a major full-strength contest between two sides?

One World Cup final won each (Australia in 1991 and England in 2003) and I know that England defeated Australia in the quarter finals at the ’95 World Cup. Not too sure if they played against each other at the ’99 World Cup.

I'm sorry but a win over a ragtag bunch at the end of a long, long, long, long season proves nothing.

So Australian fans can use the same excuse if Australia loses on the tour of England at the end of our long season?

Who cares? We'll still be going on about winning th World Cup for the next few years.

The teams didn't play each other in 99, which is lucky as we already had to put up with losses to South Africa and New Zealand in that tournament and that was enough really for one competition!

Let's be honest. Can any Australian say hand on heart that they beat England's best team? Saying you can only beat whom you play is a stupid argument as obviously if you play England reserves you still can only beat England reserves.

I don’t think Australian fans are dancing in the streets, organising ticker-tape parades or organising a knighthood for Eddie Jones just yet, but getting a win against England is always that much sweeter. As for the “you can only beat the team play argument”, are you suggesting that Australia take it easy because they were playing an under-strength team?

Nope I'm suggesting that people on this baord shouldn't take it as 'revenge' for the World Cup final. Just trying to get some perspective...

Contrast his attitude with that of the treasonable Duff, who sold his soul for laundered Russian roubles without a backward glance to the club that made his name and the supporters who worshipped him.

That would be a valid comparison if, firstly, Duff was a Blackburn lad like Gerarrd was a Liverpool fan and a local lad. Secondly, if Rovers could offer the same kind of competitive football as Chelsea did at the time. Liverpool can offer Stevie Champions League football just like Chelsea. Rovers couldn't offer that to Duff a year ago...which is why it isn't a fair comparison.

As for Duff himself... he made us £17 million. It isn't his fault if we didn't spend it as well as we could. The guy made us a fortune. It's then up to us to use it appropriately.

We weren't in the Champions League but we were in the Uefa Cup. Duff isn't a Blackburn lad but, as he admitted, he was very happy in the area and had no wish to leave. That is all irrelevant however.

No that's actually all relevant Jim if you are terming him as being 'treacherous' or comparing him to Gerrard as you well know.

Besides, Rovers were happy enough to have the release clause inserted into his contract and were not overly distraught at him leaving...seems Duff wasn't the only one to have his head turned by money. £17 million can go a long way...if spent well. Duff is no more treacherous than any other person in any profession who leaves a company for a better job. The questions shouldn't be about Duff himself though but rather how on earth we sold the two D's (Duff and Dunn) for over £20 million and yet twelve months later are telling the LET there is no money for anything but bargain purchases.

Contrast his attitude with that of the treasonable Duff, who sold his soul for laundered Russian roubles without a backward glance to the club that made his name and the supporters who worshipped him.

That would be a valid comparison if, firstly, Duff was a Blackburn lad like Gerarrd was a Liverpool fan and a local lad. Secondly, if Rovers could offer the same kind of competitive football as Chelsea did at the time. Liverpool can offer Stevie Champions League football just like Chelsea. Rovers couldn't offer that to Duff a year ago...which is why it isn't a fair comparison.

As for Duff himself... he made us £17 million. It isn't his fault if we didn't spend it as well as we could. The guy made us a fortune. It's then up to us to use it appropriately.

Let's be honest. Can any Australian say hand on heart that they beat England's best team? Saying you can only beat whom you play is a stupid argument as obviously if you play England reserves you still can only beat England reserves.

What have been the results between the two countries when the match has been a major full-strength contest between two sides? I'm sorry but a win over a ragtag bunch at the end of a long, long, long, long season proves nothing.

For once in a blue moon England come out on top...and no sour grapes from 'Aussies' (speaking in Lanky twang) can take away that just now...

Are people still going on about that goal/foul?

Yes , but the door is open if you're not happy about it , FLB.... see you in August

Hey! Don't take it out on me if you've had a tough monday back at work ...

Are people still going on about that goal/foul?

I mean it's soooooo last week.

Now the hype has died down we should all have moved on by now. England; great while they lasted but Rovers, well...they're a constant not just flashes in the pan.

Pity really cos Linekars refusal to take Jack Walkers revolution seriously meant that we had to make do with Shearer instead!

Sorry to be pedantic but his refusal meant we had to look elsewhere for a striker to spearhead our promotion challenge (Don Mackay was manager when we bid for Lineker) and so we actually had to make do with David Speedie instead.

I very much doubt that John. By the end of the tournament no one will care anymore,

End of the tournament? I don't care now! Enough of this international football stuff already... bring on the Premiership.

For a week or so I got all wrapped up in England, but that's just glory stuff of Championships. Give me a long, nine month league season which goes from late summer to late spring. Just not a season like last year....

Euro04 or no Euro04....a summer without Rovers is still a very dull time!

When Garner left Rovers he went to West Bromwich Albion, who coincidentally are supported by one Frank Skinner, hence why he was probably on ths show .Garner scored for WBA against Burnley in one game but the story of him lifting his striped Albion shirt in front of the Burnley fans to reveal a blue and white halved Rovers top underneath is unfortunately just a myth, as he revealed in his autobiography 'There's only one Simon Garner'.

I've seen the show a number of times and none of the older players seemed to have receieved much of a reception, which shows the ignorance of some of the audience who watch the show. Even if they haven't heard of them they could at least have the good manners to give them a welcome. They seem to think chanting 'Statto' and 'Rooney' every single programme is funny. Just like the show, the chants are getting tired and boring, getting well past their used-by-date.

Despite a few good jokes, this series has not been fit to compare with how it was when it first came out on BBC2 when it was the funniest show around and a breath of fresh air. Baddiel is however still as funny as he ever was. Never was funny though that Baddiel....

Having previously said there was no difference in my feelings toward England and Rovers I must admit that now the hype around Euro2004 has calmed down a bit that I'm back to my being more concerned about Rovers than England. It isn't that i don't support England or wish them to win, just that it's a rather temporary thing. When the championship is over for them they largely fade into the background. Rovers are more a permanent and continual aspect of life. England will become important again but not in the same way as Rovers. Not to say that I support England any less, just that there is a rather subtle difference in feelings towards a club side and the national side.

However, I do think that the point made by Revidge regarding the people in the pub was slightly skewed. It isn't really fair to compare the most important England games for a couple of years with a Rovers match on the TV. An England-Portugal quarter final is hardly in the same nerve-tingling excitement bracket of a Super Sunday brought to you from the Walkers Stadium between Leicester and Rovers. If you are to compare it to a Rovers match it would at least have to be a match against United or something. When Rovers played Chelsea at Stamford Bridge the game was on TV in the pub (well...Scandinavian TV but we shoudn't mention that...) and the pub was packed. This was merely one out of 38 league games whereas the England game was their most important for years, If anything Rovers attracts far more loyal support, month after month (not just once in a blue moon) than England ever can hope to.

So....i'm trying to say that I know where you are coming from but I think you are wrong. The support the local populace gives Rovers when they need is far more consistent and happens much more often than when they give England support.

Brian Clough wasn't it? Maybe it's true, but make it your own death and not someone else's.

Bill Shankley

Bill Shankly.

Coming from an era when goalkeepers were not the "untouchables" that they are today, the great man would no doubt have had a robust view of last night's events.

With regard to Swiss referee Urst Maier's performance, it is worth recalling one of his other classic quotes:

"The trouble with referees is that they know the rules, but they do not know the game."

Regarding; 'Football's not a matter of life and death, it's more important than that'.

Bill Shankley actually...ahem...'recycled' the quote. It was originally first uttered by an American Football coach, whose name I can't remember but maybe some of the American posters on here may know who it was .

Has the Lofty rebellion ended already? That was quick.

Can the mod who is Lofty's mate please now step forward?

T4E - Can't really compare England with Rovers as with Rovers we've actually had the highs (promotions, Worthington Cup, league title) to go with the lows.

England- just build you up then let you down. Think there's a song that goes like that...

Besides...you're bloody Scottish!

Damn penalties....Should have known though, it's not like we haven't been here before...It'd be nice if just once if we had to go out that we got beat 3-0 or something. I'm sure it'd be easier to take than these exits....

1986 World Cup (first international competition I can remember) - Maradona's 'Hand of God'.

1988 Euros - Ouch. So bad we were just painful to watch.....

1990 World Cup - Out on penalties in the semis to the Germans. Bugger.

1992 Euros - Taking off Gary Lineker for Alan Smith- what?!?! Carlton Palmer as our best player??? Aaarggghhhh....

1994 World Cup - Didn't make it but robbed by ref against Holland (worst decision ever against England- made the one last night seem not quite so bad after all)

1996 Euros - Out on penalties in the semis to the Germans. Bugger. Again.

1998 World Cup - Out on penalties to the Argies. El Bugger.

2000 Euros - Through to the quarter finals all nice and safe, just one minute to go...oh wait...is that Phil Neville about to give away a penalty? It sure is...

2002 World Cup - Alright, being knocked out by Brazil isn't so bad.

2004 - here we go again...

There is a poem called 'This Be the Verse' by Philip Larkin in which contains the lines

"They f___ you up your mum and dad

They don't mean to but they do."

That's what it's like supporting England.

"They f___ you up do Eng-er-land

They don't mean to but they do."