1 minute ago, wilsdenrover said:

I’m certain you mean overestimating… 

yes, MY BAD

5 minutes ago, Penwortham Blue said:

That is negligence, what about getting the deal sorted and then getting some tea, FFS 😡

No it ain't - the DoF should be able to trust his staff to fill a form in FFS - like I've said he'll have overestimated the ability of the club. You could argue GB taking a young player out for a meal as part of the welcome to the club a really good thing, that's part of his job, not doing basic admin tasks.

13 minutes ago, goozburger said:

@J*B Any update on the rumoured toxic staff meeting? Wondering if this has all blown-up.

I really hope JDT gives it the whole "do you know who I've played for, do you know about my career" etc etc and now having to deal with people like Steve Fucking Waggott. 

I can't seem to find it anywhere, were we going to be paying his wages or not? 

Just now, Mercer said:

Would think O'Brien also not a happy bunny.  No longer in the Forest '25', career stalled for the remainder of the season and maybe also suffering financial loss (bonuses etc).

This is why there must be more to it - I know rules is rules but how can the EFL do this to one of their players - it's pretty sad. Surely there can be "mitigating circumstances" i.e "ahhh yes I see you were signing for the Rovers, they are a shit show".

Anyway if and when the worst happens he must have a legal case against us. No one would blame him.

3 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Translation:-"

We naively didn't realise it would be so complicated so ended up having to scramble to get lawyers in at the last minute to sort it out.

Or even: "we've never done this before, this one's a bit tricky for us, it's got clauses and things in it, can you do it?" 

1 minute ago, jim mk2 said:

The club secretary or another minion will probably get blamed for this but a responsible CEO with lawyers on hand should have been at Ewood on Tuesday night overseeing these transactions

It looks like they were from the statement: "Due to the complex nature of the various agreements to be included within the overall registration, legal advisors were brought in to assist in part of the process."

I think they've been caught out by the complexity of the deal at short notice, and haven't had the heads around them to get it sorted, this then caused them to be late with the Brierly deal too. 

...and yes why Waggott was at Birmingham is very odd indeed, one can only speculate. 

1 minute ago, Mercer said:

As for Broughton, I've not been impressed since he arrived.  He and his team have had months to plan for this window - result:

One loan signing - a winger when  the all football world knows we needed a central striker and a combative central midfielder

The dispatch of the abject Hirst who was our number one striking target throughout the summer!

The dispatch of Markanday to Aberdeen when the lad has shown in glimpses, when give  a chance, he might really have something to offer

In my opinion, an abysmal window.

I think Broughton as DOF should hang his head in shame and should be summarily dismissed.  IMO, he's spectacularly failed to deliver - that is the bottom line and there can be no excuses.

The whole management at Ewood from top to bottom, IMO, fails to deliver and should be swept away.

Broughton said it would be a quiet window. 

Every club wants a combative centre mid and a striker. Can't just magic them up. We could still yet get a striker on loan. 

The signing of Sorba Thomas helps us play Gallagher or Diaz down the middle, effectively changing the striker situation, Tomasson historically likes to play 442 with wingers but he hasn't had this chance yet due, hence this fluid front 4 business.

Hirst was a flop but you never know with these things, remember BB before he became BBD?

I like Markanday on the ball but he needs to toughen up and learn how to defend if he is to play week in week out in the championship, getting him game time at Aberdeen is a good idea for me - get him ready for next season.

I think Broughton will just be as angry as we all are - and is probably now realising the mess he has got himself into, surrounded by Waggott and co. They are the real problem with the club. 

1 minute ago, JohnD said:

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that we were prepared to meet his wages in full. Secret money tree?

Yeah I don't get this at all, we were told there's no budget and yet this was a big outlay - it's the inconsistency and mixed messages that I don't understand - we're either not challenging for the playoffs and then we're doing a deal for a serious midfielder that has a contract with terms written into it based purely on promotion. 

I don't get why both deals have gone south though, that is really weird and suggests something very odd has happened. 

I think people should drop the criticism of Broughton and his team, he'll just be as furious as we are, and he'll be the one who has to front up about it - either covering for some conspiracy out of his control or a hideous paperwork error. Either way it's embarrassing, do you really think he wanted that? He's actually been trying to move the club forward on the footballing side in quite a short space of time, tying down contracts, making some decent signings (OK I agree we paid too much for Sammie, I like the player but that was a big fee). There's been some pretty vile stuff written about them on this forum and on twitter that is pretty shameful and unwarranted, makes us look stupid - I know this is a bad time to be saying this, but seriously, think about it, he's not in charge of applications is he? It's Waggott and this Pascha bloke that should face the heat, "the powers that be", they've been doing the death by a 1000 cuts thing for too long now, poor pricing, the lack of offers for fans, the neglect of the stadium etc etc. It's been a period of poor, poor management, do the bare minimum attitude. 

There's some pretty uneducated people on here too, people saying things like "Broughton is shit because we haven't dipped into the Scandi market" etc - do your research and learn about work permits etc

4 minutes ago, vyeo said:

Finally, a crazier hypothesis is whether Rovers, Forest and LOB all agreed to try their luck with the EFL and take a common position that they need not agree on permanent terms yet, and submitted the deal without that element, but was ultimately rejected by the EFL. 

I don't think that's crazy at all, I can imagine them trying to pull something like that and getting caught out. 

The bit I don't get is why both deals have gone south - maybe it's connected with the above? Brierly's deal should have been pretty straightforward should it not? 

13 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Probably a tad more than you given I've done consultancy work at 3 football league clubs (2 in England and 1 in Scotland).

Woah, OK that's me told - bet you loved rolling that out.

Still doesn't make a jot of difference - so, what do you know?
Doesn't matter who you are unless you're in there working for the recruitment team. It's all speculation. If we don't sign anyone, then yes be worried.

Anyway it's all pointless, for the sake of declaring who we all are I'm actually a cocooned fly that's been wrapped in a web in the top corner in one of the Brockhall offices, my captor, the spider, has since died. Due to Venky's mismanagement and therefore cutbacks on the cleaning budget, I've been left here for years. During that time I've evolved sentience from the snippets of football talk I've overheard, and without an outlet to pour out my new found knowledge I have joined the forum out of sheer boredom (lockdown was hard, even for half-dead flies). From my vantage point I can just about make out the recruitment "geeks" at their computers talking ball retention stats, but there's a water cooler in the way. But anyway, I'm just a smashed up fly and I still don't understand, so I won't make a judgement. But it's much better being up here than when that barrel chested chap Wencoyle worked here, bastard tried to prise me off the wall with his many wooden used Feast lolly sticks, stuck together with what's left of Anthony Stokes's sock tape, dark times, tried to stop me learning his secrets he did etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc  

Anyway, "why aren't we all over Dembele - it's a joke lads" etc etc. 

^^^ This 100%

10 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Brilliant post. The mental gymnastics some posters indulge in to absolve the recruitment department of any responsibility is truly something to behold.

Wow, I bet you're fun at parties. There's being realistic and then there's being negative for negative's sake. I can imagine some were just as miserable during the Souness years under John Williams. Direct your ire toward the Venky's and co, not GB and his team until they window is out. Then again, do what you want it's a message board as many say.  We just know so much more now so the opportunity to moan and spit bile is more than ever. 

18 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Isn't that part of a message board function - to speculate, to discuss, to criticise, to praise and many other things. There is no evidence that Tomasson is either happy or unhappy. It's opinion and subject to speculation and discussion. I wouldn't take it so seriously.

Slightly patronising tone here - I agree, it's part of a wider behaviour associated with social media, instant content, instant reaction - but I see in the stands in real life. There's critsiscm and then there's calling people a "fucking joke". I get we're all frustrated, but why double down on it. 

I do take it seriously, I'm upset about what's happened to the club - this all makes it worse.

...and I'll do it for you: "maybe you should stay off the forums then" 🤣

None of you know what is going on - how can anyone speculate. The reaction is always "deal falls through" = "our club is shit / GB out etc". It's pathetic, there should be an AA moaners anonymous board setup on here for everyone wanting to vent their unreasoned frustration - you need to have evidence you threw your handbag at Jason Wilcox from the riverside to get in.

If we don't sign anyone, agreed I'll eat my hat - but we don't have a clue what is going on behind the scenes. Give me one piece of solid evidence, I mean solid, that JDT is unhappy with the current setup? It's all reading between the lines. He's not daft - would he have really come here knowing what he knows about the Venky's? Surely he did his research. 

3 minutes ago, TheRevAshton said:

I've mentioned him numerous times on here - would be an amazing piece of business if we got him.

Again, just setting yourself up for disappointment. Fulham player? Never afford his wages - just daft even imagining we could buy someone like that.  Then when we don't get players like this, we all rage at the recruitment setup. Need to get real here. No money. 

18 minutes ago, Ghost7 said:

 

Where do I even start. Long story short, if this continues JDT will be walking and you'll be applauding no one.

Yeah agreed mate, if that's the case then I would walk too - if he's been promised a certain budget and certain players then he has every right to walk. It's happened before. But, as it stands, we don't know that yet do we?

7 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Can have a recruitment team of 200 if you want, means nothing without bodies in the door.

Brittain, Hyam and Thomas all look good signings on the face of it. The rest, pretty awful.

Yeah agreed but at least it's something, like I said 5 years of Drizzle Cake's spreadsheet or an actual recruitment team? If Swansea had done it we'd all be creaming ourselves. I've heard people call them "nerds" or "geeks". No wonder there's a bad feeling around this club. I get we're frustrated. 

I think people forget how hard it is to actually sign players with zero cash, add to that the glacial pace of dealings getting signed off through our owners. That's the laughable bit. 

16 minutes ago, Ghost7 said:

Laughable.

16 minutes ago, BankEnd Rover said:

Laughing stock. 

How can you say it's laughable? Seriously some of the reactions on this forum are insane. I used to love reading it, it made me feel connected to the club and the fans, but now it just depresses me even more than watching us piss around at the back. Knee jerk to say the least. I get it's frustrating watching us flail around for scraps in the market, our rivals splashing the cash, but what can we do? We can't play football manager like so many want us do.

We live in an age where everything is commented or reported on, how do you know what dealings were going on in the past that went unreported? When we signed the aformentioned Dahlin or Grabbi, or I don't know: Robbie Slater, pick any name - there could have been 4-5 failed deals that went close before a signing was made. It's only because we're hearing about it through mass media that we can actually pass judgement on it. 

The Venky's and upper management are the laughing stock, they deserve our ire - not the manager and the recruitment. FFS one of our lads died in pre-season.

For me their new ownership explains the new year slump under Mowbray and those disastrous 2nd halfs of seasons, and what we're seeing now. Imagine being in that dressing room knowing you need bodies in and the owners are stalling on getting deals done, it breads discontent for me, knowing that players want to leave.

At lot of the criticism Broughton and co are getting is unwarranted - if he came into another club we'd be jealous and saying "they're doing ti right" - he's identified the poor recruitment setup and the contracts - trying to tie people down, he can't do anything about BBD either - he had already gone in his head. What more do we want? For once we actually have a recruitment team and a process, not Tony Mowbray's spreadsheet. It's hard to be a Rovers fan currently but a sense of realism needed.

I also think the way JDT has managed JRC and Dack should be applauded.

I think he downplayed it, and Kompany did the opposite. You could tell by the way there were goading us at the end, they knew. Both approaches could have backfired, but it's a lot easier when you have the stronger squad to pull it off. 

I think he left the Whartons out as he could see either some nerves, some extra aggression or he thinks he is somehow "protecting" them from a potentially "damaging" game? (I don't agree if this is the case). 

What am I worried about is it shows some arrogance to JDT. After 5 similar defeats in the same vein without any visible learnings being shown, he is a world class goal poacher after all, and it is "his way" only. This worries me. 

2 hours ago, Boz said:

In summary I sympathise somewhat with the players being asked to play either out of their favoured positions, or in a formation they might not be fully used to, or novice young lads lacking the experience of such a match (btw why don't you take one of our brightest prospects along with you to a game to gain some experience rather than leave Adam at home?), combined with an obvious lack of planning in a match which the supporters feel strongly about.

So no the players are not effing shit as the dingles whispered to them as they trudged off at full time, unless their chant was directed to our manager and coaches, who on Sunday were guilty as charged. Learn this lesson and do not repeat. 

I can't agree with this more, I can't get angry towards our players to be honest in hindsight, yes of course I'd have liked to have seen more direction and a real leader on the pitch to emerge (Trav) - but we can't suddenly expect Morton to start bullying the Burnley midfield or Ayala to start moving the ball forward out of defense or Hedges to take the ball up the pitch from his full back position and link up with Diaz and threaten their last third can we? 

For me, it's simple: I think they're over-coached. He wants them to move it forward with two - three touches, this seems to take priority over what is actually happening in front of them, when it works, great, but when it doesn't and there's no plan B, no Flitcroft/Sherwood, christ, even Billy McKinlay if you want, no one to override it and drag the team forward. It's like with any job, you get into a rut and repeat things over and over again and find it hard to see the bigger picture. The game has got too professional for a lot of players. But, call me in 2 years when we're a great team in the JDT mould, I don't know...

I'm still seething, next level anger, finding it hard to concentrate at work etc, and starting to wonder whether the anger will ever subside, be it this week, month, year whatever. One of the main reasons I'm so angry is I'm still angry after the Wigan and Coventry games, those games did me in...and to see it repeated in that game just knocks it out of you.

The famous Einstein quote "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" comes to mind.

I like Tomasson, I really want him to succeed, regardless of the inconsistency he has lifted my mood this season and got me back loving match days again, if we come back fighting after the WC then fair enough, but I can't see it - I think there is a modern trend for football managers to imprint their own mark/brand on teams above all else as a vanity project, a step on the career ladder. If JDT steps down and changes it now he's almost admitting to himself, the fans, the team that he was wrong and I'm not sure he can do that - we'll keep mining this furrow until he gets sacked (unlikely) or gets lucky and lands a squad that can play his way (highly unlikely).

I think his stance on Dack is example of this. He can't be seen to back down and is using him as an example of the kind of discipline he wants in the squad, "no one is bigger than the team". I appreciate this is just pure speculation. 

I live over the dark side and am surrounded by Burnley fans. I'd got my mind prepped in the build up for a hard fought defeat, getting my little spiel ready for Monday morning, but nothing could prepare me for the fact we lost in the same manner as those recent poor away games. They're loving how poor we were on Sunday, it adds to it. There's an extra smugness to them lot now which is hard to stomach, they're rubbing it in from every direction, from our failing ground to our declining fanbase - this coupled with the media love-in for that thug Barnes, and the queue of people round the block waiting to fellate Kompany, it's all getting a bit nauseous. Social media doesn't help, I'm sure back in 2001 we'd have all rubbed it in online too if it had existed, but it just adds that extra dimension that makes it hard to escape from, I remember having a laugh at the game, celebrating with the team, then going home. It seems all the Carrots are looking to outdo each other with superlatives. My one hope is that after some of their antics in the game they've gone too far, but I'm clinging on here...

Sorry just wanted to rant, none of my family understand it (half are Burnley fans anyway), can't talk about it at work, need to let off steam...

I'm still buzzing from last night, couldn't help but get emotional last night watching our young side grind out that win, there's something about these types of games at Ewood that stays with you. So proud, not felt like that for years. The crowd cheering that block from Gally in the second half like a goal, the one that went out for Boro throw, just summed up the night. 

He looked immense last night when he came on, absolute animal - unlucky not to score with that run and shot.

It was hard to tell but did he have shin pads on? Seemed to have that low sock look made popular by a certain Steve Claridge.

Best wishes to your Dad - great to hear he's doing OK. He broke up an intense period of pressure from Boro, he was our 12th man last night! Get well soon.