What a fantastic game of football. Argentina were as good as France were bad for 75 minutes, then all hell broke loose. Superb entertainment. 

I really enjoyed this World Cup. Plenty of good games, and although England didn't win it I felt they were the better team in the game they lost. Onward and upward.

Brazil, Italy, and Germany are the cream of world football. After today, Argentina are close to joining them.

Brazil and Argentina won their cups with stars. The other two rely on overall quality and great organisation. 

France look like they could join too. They certainly are based on the last 25 years. England's strong domestic league and global presence has always allowed the national team a reputation greater than results have shown.

I think that until England have a true world class player it will be more misses. In my lifetime England have produced good players. Rooney, Owen, and Gascoigne came close to being good enough to join the world class club. Biased me says that Shearer could have been without injuries.

Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard, Terry, Ferdinand, and the like were good club players who couldn't replicate their form for England. Alex Ferguson is to blame of some of it. His club was greater than country mentality pervaded those England teams, and as the players were all competing for titles and European glory they couldn't get along.  

Southgate deserves credit for breaking that down and making players proud to wear an England shirt. It no longer has the weight of chainmail.

A great 3 points. Were Norwich bad? Rovers good? Probably a bit of both. Either way, quality was lacking across the board. Rovers worked hard without creating many chances. Norwich never looked like scoring. 

It's halfway through the season and Rovers lie 3rd in the table. I don't think anyone on here predicted that would be the case. Rovers are an odd team. They've not drawn a game and have looked worse than abject in some of their losses. Score first and they win, concede first and they lose. 

JDT needs to sort out what he wants and go with it. So far, for me, he is an improvement on Mowbray.

On 15/12/2022 at 08:03, WacoRover said:

This will be the third Rovers game in a row I get on ESPN+. I sincerely doubt it will be a different result than the first two. 

But, what to do? I will have it on, 1:30 cst, because it’s not enough simply to know there’s going to be a train wreck, we’ve got to see it for ourselves. 
 

CoyB! 

I'll be watching. It may be a bit of comedown after weeks of World Cup matches. I completely forgot about the PNE game but it surely can't be worse than the second half at Turf Moor?

18 hours ago, roverandout said:

Maddison would have been the perfect link player Griezmann style this world cup but southgate stubbornes refused to use him. Another stick to beat southgate with 

 

 

England played well enough to beat France with the players on the pitch. Some iffy refereeing, and a missed penalty cost England. It wasn't down to not having James Maddison Griezmanning his way around the park.

Against England and now Morocco. I've never seen Lloris play like that for Spurs.

France 1-0 up. Could be 2 or 3. Giroud hit the post hen missed when he probably could have had a touch. 

Morocco have to attack which hasn't been their game plan. Their right side is dangerous. 

Maradona and Messi are both genius footballers. I can't pick between the two.

Maradona gets vilified because he handballed England out of a World Cup. That rankles a lot of people who saw it as it was only a few years after the Falklands war, and in 1986 that type of play was something only "cheating foreigners" did. The Champions League has all but ensured a standardisation of how top level football is played globally. Players from all nations now engage in subtle and not so subtle acts of gamesmanship.

28 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

For me it's the other way round.

England losing is just "meh - shit happens".

Rovers: Well it's like Bill Shankly's quip "Football isn't a matter of life and death ' - it's much more important than that".

Rovers will play 46 league games this season. At current pace they'll lose 23 of them. I believe that you do feel more for Rovers, but that's a lot of defeat to absorb. 

Anyway, back to England. I think that Southgate will stay. Most of this team will be around for the foreseeable future. They like him. He likes them.

I do think that some changes will be made behind the scenes. His substitutions are a bit odd at times, and he needs to advance his tactical nous.

16 hours ago, rigger said:

Fuck England, we have just lost 1-4 to the nobbers, let that sink in.

Rovers have a chance to rectify that defeat next weekend. England have to wait 4 years. 

I know plenty on here disagree with my views on England v. Rovers but England's defeat stung. Rovers losing is unfortunately a common event which doesn't bother me. 

Kane missed a late penalty, it was tough to watch. Not too long ago George Hirst missed a late penalty, I barely batted an eyelid.

The better team lost. I can't fault the performance. 

The first French goal was a good strike, the second a superb header.

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Croatia are fantastic in tournaments, you would imagine that it is the last tournament for a few including Perisic and definitely (and sadly) Modric but they have IMO the best midfield in the tournament.

Good to see the underdog win and always nice to see Neymar in tears. His goal was special but he is as unlikeable a player as you could wish to see.

Their midfield 3 tortured England in 2018.

The Croatia players manage to get so much more out of themselves playing for their country. Lovren looks like Franz Beckenbauer.

Neymar is such a talent but such a pain in the neck. 

I'm going to again repeat my claim that walking, shuffling, step-stepping, and duck strutting up to take a penalty is a good way to miss it. 

4 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I’ve seen some good midfield players in the my time but Modric is something else. He covered every blade of grass today.

Messi and Ronaldo have had all the plaudits over the past decade or so but I think Modric is up there with them. A completely different player, but never gives the ball away and is always available.

51 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

It's just a good team - it's a far cry from the teams of superstars they've had in the past.

47 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

This is a European Brazil, a Champions League Brazil, because most of the players play their football there, still excellent quality but, aside from one or two flashes, lacking the individual brilliance of the past. 

The 1970 Brazil was the best international team in my lifeftime

Quite right. Good players but all known entities. 

The 2002 team had Ronaldo, Cafu, Kaka, Ronaldinho, and Roberto Carlos. All also very European but much better than what they have now.

2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I actually think Sterling is one of the best players in this squad

He may not be the best at club level, but for England his performances over the past 3 years have been sensational

He works off Kane and is always in the right place at the right time - he may not start, but I think we will at least see him

The only certainty for me is that Grealish or Maddison won't start; Grealish because Southgate sees him as a 'closer' and Maddison because he's not fit. I don't think anything else is off the table to be honest.

I personally think he may go with Saka and Rashford

I wasn't dissing Sterling. I too think that he does well for England. My point was that I don't think even Southgate would start him tomorrow after missing training all week. 

15 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

I doubt we will be changing the team. If we do it will be probably to drop a striker and play a third centre back. Could go to : 
 

                                  Pickford

                  Walker      Stones     Maguire

  Trippier   Henderon   Rice    Bellingham  Shaw

                           Saka         Kane

 

But... Saka, Foden, Henderson, Rice and Bellingham have all been so good I can't see one of them being dropped. I think we will take our chances in 4231 but tell Walker to sit deep at right back and play an almost entirely defensive game against Mbappe.

I'm going with the same team as last time out. Even if Sterling is a Southgate favourite he's been absent all week. 

Mbappe is special but CL teams don't change their entire gameplan when playing PSG. I don't think that England should either. Kyle Walker is a capable full back. 

5 hours ago, arbitro said:

I don't often watch/listen to full time match analysis by the 'experts' in the studio but something I heard last night resonated with me. A young lady (Danish I think) said the the Spanish style of play was boring. She said what millions are thinking and saying but for some reason many 'experts' won't. In fact some are embarrassingly patronising about it. I have sensed a seed change in this World Cup though that quite a few countries aren't afraid to play long passes or have their goalkeeper kick it long.

4 hours ago, DE. said:

Spain have been incredibly boring to watch since they first started this tiki-taka stuff in 2008. At the time it was successful so you can't blame them for doing so, but watching them play was, for me at least, 95% yawn inducing and 5% very impressive. It wasn't worth watching an hour and a half for brief flashes of brilliance, I could just watch the highlights for that.

Nowadays teams have adapted to that style and worked out how to nullify it - Spain either need to evolve or accept they're back to where they were in the 90s, a largely irrelevent team who have potential but never get anywhere.

They are as dull as dishwater. They had over 1,000 passes against Morocco and very few chances to show for it.

I enjoyed watching their all-conquering sides from 2008-12. They passed teams to death but they had extras current team iterations don't. David Villa and Fernando Torres were excellent goal scorers. David Silva and Cesc Fabregas provided a bit of spark with an ability to break lines. All backed up by Xavi and Iniesta who kept the ball in Spain's hands. 

29 minutes ago, DE. said:

I read your last line as meaning the system is still in need of a reboot, ergo it hasn't started yet. If you meant the reboot is happening now and they need to have patience then yes, I was definitely agreeing with you! I saw a lot of reactionary stuff in the German media talking about sacking the manager and coaching staff now, how Germany aren't a tournament team anymore, how their national team is no longer elite, an embarrassment, etc... it was just way over the top and proves it isn't just the English press and supporters who sometimes go too far with expectations versus reality.

I did but can see it be read other ways. Low lasted too long. Flick is having to deal with that legacy. 

13 minutes ago, DE. said:

Eh, I maintain they were just a bit unlucky in this tournament. A freak opening result (Argentina had a worse opening game result and still qualified), a credible 1-1 draw with Spain and they ended up beating Costa Rica comfortably after a brief scare. Had it not been for Costa Rica not turning up for their first match of the tournament it could easily have been Spain going out instead. Nobody would have anticipated Japan beating both Spain and Germany. It was a bizarre set of circumstances that saw them drop out. 

Now granted Germany didn't look great, but then a lot of the bigger nations looked poor in the groups and still qualified. I don't think they looked any worse than Argentina, Spain, Croatia or the Netherlands. Obviously from their perspective hugely disappointing to go out in the group stages for the second WC in a row, but this wasn't the same as their WC 2018 elimination. That was a team struggling at the end of the road, further confirmed in the Euros afterwards. This Germany is a team in transition from a manager that clung on for too long, and imo at least suffered a bit of bad luck in how results played out. 9 times out of 10 Japan don't beat Spain and Germany, nor do Spain beat Costa Rica 7-0. I don't think the German FA will overreact in the same way their media seem to be. 

It reads like you are agreeing with me. They were unlucky. They should have beat Spain too.

My comment was a counterpoint to Darrenbot stating that the German team didn't have quality players. They do have quality players, it's the set up that isn't working. The German mentality isn't there. 

13 minutes ago, Darrenbot said:

The German team has failed to get out of the group stages for the last 2 world cups,i'd hardly call them a team full of quality players,they don't come close to some of the German teams from the past.

Germany's starting 11 against Costa Rica play for; Bayern, Bayern, Bayern, Real Madrid, RB Leipzig, Bayern, Man City, Bayern, Bayern, Bayern, Bayern.

They have quality players, they just aren't clicking. I think Jogi Low stayed on for too long (a bit like Wenger at Arsenal) and now the system is in need of a reboot.

Might I also add that bringing players on late into extra time so that they can take a penalty also doesn't work. 

Spain brought on two, Morocco 1. All three of them missed. 

See England 2021 too.

Awful penalties from Spain. Who decided that walking up to take a penalty makes it easier to score? 

Having said that if Morocco's 21 could shoot they'd have lost too. 

4 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Yeah... hard to disagree. The other main contenders - France, Brazil, Spain, Argentina - have all really struggled at times. I've been surprised how much really. England had a flat performance against US but were never looking like they could actually lose the game, unlike France vs Tunisia, Brazil vs Cameroon, Argentina vs Saudi Arabia, Spain vs Japan. 

I know the France, Brazil, Spain were all playing weakened teams, but still.... they should have won those games comfortably given the players they put out.

I wouldn't say England are the favorites though, still think Brazil and France have slightly better chances of winning the trophy.

A mate of mine was at the England-USA game. His view of it in person was that Southgate set the team up not to lose, and with it progression secured. USA wouldn't have scored if they played for 3 hours.

England do look confident. 1 goal conceded from open play (the second was never a penalty), and more chances being created. 

8 hours ago, RoverDom said:

He's criminally under rated as a player. I think he's great, he does a lot of the dirty ugly work that no one else wants to do that and is an experienced leader on the pitch. He does a lot of shouting and organising which I don't really see from Harry Kane but which I think is so vital for our younger players. Work rate is off the charts as well. 

I've thought this season he's not been at it and maybe age is catching up to his high energy game but when he's in the mood he was last night he has to start

He is. He makes other players better. He's not flashy at all. He has been on the right of the 3, which if where he plays his best football for Liverpool. He does a lot of covering for TAA. If Southgate keeps the same team (which I hope he does) he can help with Mbappe. 

I think that Rodgers and Gerrard would have had a league title if it wasn't for Henderson being sent off against City a few years ago. They were lost without him.

4 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Fabulous performance from England, cant wait to watch back the highlights tonight. 100% in control from start to finish.

I think anyone watching that around the world will put England in the same bracket as France and Brazil.

Does that mean we will win the world cup.... Not really, weve got a 50/50 against France then two more ties if we make it we are not going to have better than a 60/40 chance of winning. So statistically we are far more likely to be knocked out than getting the cup....

But great performance, Southgate continues to get so much out of the team, and anyone will really fear us.

The real innovation for me is sticking with four at the back and playing Henderson, Rice and Bellingham in midfield. Senegal didnt get a sniff and I know Deschamps will be thinking long and hard about how to compete with those three without Kante and Pogba...

Well said.

I am glad I stay off here during the games. It was obvious after 10 minutes that England were by far the better team. Pickford's save made them wake up, then lo and behold it was 2-0 and game over at half time.

Lots of posts moaning about Saka. He scores again. Henderson; a title winning and Champs League winning captain is thought of as a complete plodder. It's completely lost on most that he can play.

I say again and again that this board is anti-England, and is certainly pessimistic at the chances of winning. Of course history plays a part but it's gamblers fallacy to think that there is no chance of victory. The Germans are out again after the group stages, Italy are missing their second straight World Cup. 

I also think that a lot of it comes down to the mentality that pervades East Lancashire. Predicting the worst and being right is easier than hoping for the best and being wrong. 

Finally, as to Maguire struggling against Mbappe; the last time I looked he played on the left side of England's defence, and Mbappe on the left side for France. Maguire will be responsible for Giroud. Stones and Walker will work on Mbappe. 

Think big. 

3 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Wasn't offside.  The player in an offside position wasn't involved in play. Sick of the big nations getting favourable decisions 

One lad was offside but wasn't involved. Lovren was deemed to be because the edge of his shoulder was past the defender.

I think that they used the wrong VAR. I don't think that Carrasco touched the attacker's foot. 

Belgium look old.