The Verve - Love is Noise

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

Perhaps there'll be a massive late surge in sales as Bolton fans celebrate the end of the Anderson era and welcome in their saviour Bassini?

Incidentally I know a few who decided to go last night, think they'll shift a lot on the door

2 hours ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Why would he ever want to come back here? Constantly played out of position, whilst Smallwood got in ahead of him? 

Armstrong came back despite being played constantly out of position, with Bell getting in ahead of him on the wing once or twice!!

But seriously, in Reed's first few months at the club he was much better at right mid than he was in centre mid.

One game that stuck out was when he played in the middle at home to lowly Rotherham. He got absolutely rinsed all first half, constantly getting ran through & finding himself too far up the pitch, and ended up being subbed off early. 

He was much improved when playing in the centre later on in the season, but on that performance and a couple of others I could see why he needed easing/coaching in to the position.

He's been given more opportunities in the middle recently. It was right that if he wasn't performing he had to earn it. And now he has done, proving he is one of the best in the middle at the club based on his attributes, with the discipline to match. After the Derby performance the manager even said we would've gone unchanged at Forest but we couldn't due to Reed being injured.

He'll know himself that he's not the finished article, but after a season he should know where he stands. If we want him and he doesn't have better offers elsewhere (both if's) i'm sure he'd jump at us. He's spent a year here playing 35+ games as a loanee which isn't shabby at all.

Just now, JHRover said:

It could easily come down to a choice for him between various Championship clubs next season. He aint going to play in the Premier League next season. Presumably he'll want to go somewhere he can play in his favoured position in the team on a regular basis, not be shunted around various positions every week.

The shame is that it is highly probable we'll be kicking off next season with Evans and Smallwood in midfield and unlikely we'll be seeing Reed there, who is vastly superior IMO.

Reed and Travis looks such a good partnership too.

We destroyed Derby because those two had the attributes to allow us to do it both from a defensive and attacking perspective.

Smallwood and Evans are incapable of replicating that.

Just now, JHRover said:

Sounds like Reed has gone back to Southampton to assess his 'injury' and there's uncertainty as to whether he'll be back with us before the end of the season.

I can't help but think something is amiss there with him and his absences over the last month or so.

A real shame as he's been one of the few signings to improve us but can't see him wanting to spend any more of his time out wide whilst Richie Smallwood occupies his favoured position.

Gutted. He's been excellent. Good player with a great attitude and great promise, one that would definitely fit in to the side moving forward. The type of grafter that would have done a job in many Rovers sides of that past too.

The odds of a return might not be massively favourable for one reason or another but I'd be over the moon if we pulled something off.

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

That doesn't make sense though. How can we bring in 3 new starters, 3 for the bench, introduce some under 23s AND keep everyone we have? Something has to give. 

I see your point - I probably should be clearer when I say not getting rid of anybody relevant.. I don't mean keep everyone we have.

Lets say we make 6 upgrades. That should make players such as (not debating who should go here, just top of my head examples based on possible incoming positions) Smallwood, Williams, Leutweiler et al practically redundant and available to be shipped out. Some we could flog, some we would struggle to flog on their current wage but something could certainly be done whether loan deals or permanent. Players like Smallwood, Williams, Samuel et al would certainly have suitors from sides such as Barnsley, Rotherham, Sunderland, Portsmouth, Charlton, Ipswich etc.

On top of that there's a few younger players that I'd expect to be loaned out, then you get out of contracts such as Rodwell and Reed that probably won't be here and so on. So numbers from a squad that already isn't big will definitely be cut before we even start.

Also as we've seen this year, you've got to account for injuries and suspensions.

I'm not a fan of bloated squads but I don't think 6 incomings, with outgoing players would take us close to that yet.

Just now, BlackburnEnd75 said:

You say we don't need an overhaul but 6-8 new player is basically an overhaul of the squad.

I would like to see some of these young lads slot in somewhere too.

For me  the squad would ideally be:

Keepers: Raya, New Keeper to challenge him, Fisher

Right Back: Nyambe, New right back to compete,

Left Back: New starting left back, Bell

Centre Back: New commanding CB, Lenihan, + 2 others (from Rodwell, Williams, Mulgrew, Magloire, Wharton)

Centre Mids: Travis, Reed (If possible), Davenport, Evans, Buckley.

Wide players: Bennett, Chapman, Rothwell, Rankin-Costollo

10's: Dack, Butterworth

Stikers: Graham, Brereton, Armstrong, Back up striker to Graham

An overhaul indicates numerous bodies out, numerous bodies in and a major change to the squad. 3 or so additions to the first 11 with 3 or so coming in to bolster the bench, whilst not getting rid of anybody relevant is certainly not an overhaul. It's a progressive upgrade to the side, largely keeping the shape and dynamics of the side before it.

I also want to see some of these kids come through BUT done with minimised risk. If we're to try and consistently blood the likes of Butterworth, Rankin-Costello and Magloire there must be somebody more reliable to step in if it doesn't go well for them - which is the case more often than not. E.g would we really want Butterworth to directly replace our main influencer in Dack, before he's ever played any mens football (never mind scoring, assisting, making any impact), would we really want to trust Magloire and Wharton if our two best centre backs got injured similar to this season etc... the risk of that model is way too big when you've got the option of signing players as well. Yes let some of them fight for a place in an already strong squad taking opportunities in the cup and off the bench when the time is right, and try to find some attactive loans in league one for others, but lets be wary of adding needless pressure and taking needless risks when the realities of both relegation and promotion exist.

RHCP - Dark Necessities

19 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Pretty much agree with that. I doubt that will materialise though.

IF the budget is the same as last year, then £8-10 million can go a very long way in this league, even spread across 6+ players, provided the homework is done properly.

It seems as time goes by the dealings last summer were poorly thought out. Whether that be because the original targets didn't come to fruition or because Venkys mucked around with funds and only coughed up at the 11th hour. Either way we made a mess of it considering the cash spent. I'm not writing Brereton off yet and I hope for his and our sakes he develops but his return this season has been poor and given the cost a waste of money. No other club spends that much money on players to develop.

I don't think 6 new players or more is drastic. We're almost sure to see the back of that number due to contract expiry and loans ending so in theory the same number but better quality should be brought in.

I doubt it will look as good as that on paper either, but here's hoping.

Eitherway I'm sure this time round the plan will be calculated and more focused on adding to the squad and strengthening a few areas, rather than punting on one or two youngsters. Whatever the plan is, we need to stick to it, and we need to play the game properly.

1) Targets identified from day 1

2) Move quickly

3) If target 1 isn't playing ball after a reasonable offer, move on to the next.

Signings need as much pre season time as possible. I undertand it's a tough market in which clubs are reluctant to sell without having a replacement lined up, but in reality if we offer a players value rather than low-balling, deals can and will be done quickly. We must avoid another window in which we let things drag on, miss all of our targets and end up with either nothing or something not worth having.

Ofcourse all of this relies on the Venky traffic light remaining firmly on green throughout the window.

We don't need an overhaul, but I don't think it's just a case of sprinkling a few new faces in.

If we truly fancy ourselves to flirt with the play off spots next season, I think we need 6-8 additions.

3/4 new faces in the starting 11, 2/3/4 new faces on the bench.

In no particular priority order I would like to try and stretch the transfer budget over:

1x Tall Goalkeeper, competition for Raya but good enough for the #1 shirt.

2x Centre Backs. One to walk in to the first 11, One to try and break in.

1x Left Back for the starting 11.

1x Right back to compete with Nyambe.

1x Harrison Reed or similar

1x Striker to compete with DG

*I would add a winger to the above but we might just get away with Rothwell/Chapman/Arma/Conway/Bennett if the rest of the side is strong enough. Would be nice to see another actual winger come in though, if possible & not at the expense of another position.

I don't know our budget for next season. But if the total sum we spent last summer is anything to go off, the above might just be doable.

A couple of the players would likely require a decent transfer fee but the rest would be doable.

Look through some of the decent championship teams from this season and you'll find a lot of the goalkeepers and full backs came cheap.

A couple of the signings would have to be loans.

It's doable. This wouldn't be drastic at all but as Jack said - Think Big.

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

In view of the fact that our status is now mathematically secure and that we are the only club in the Championship to be in that position, we now have an opportunity to establish a head start over rivals going into the summer and next season.

We need to be full steam ahead this week onwards with planning, recruitment, pre-season etc. so we can use this window of time to our advantage. Whilst the play-off chasing sides are preoccupied with trying to get promoted and those below us are still threatened with relegation we are able to focus all our efforts on preparation, in some cases we can have 3-4 weeks head start on other clubs.

Whilst the next 4 games should be enjoyed and should be put to use by the manager to 'experiment' (if that's what he wants to do), the focus should really be on getting ourselves into perfect shape to start next season with confidence and momentum.

I'm afraid sitting around doing nothing until June or July and then coming out with excuses about it being a tough market or how much of a struggle it is because other clubs have more money is not acceptable. We have an advantage, perhaps small, but we should be using it.

 

Absolutely.

Norwich, under the radar, signed their key men in June last summer. That gave the players a full pre season to bed in and buy in to what the manager wanted, avoiding the increasingly common scenario of faffing about towards the end of a window, leading to a slow start. They were decisive, and they're about to be rewarded with the ultimate prize.

Pointless fact of the day:

With the current points total & the remaining fixtures other teams have, Rovers are the only team in the Championship that can't get either relegated or promoted.

Just now, JacknOry said:

I think it would be madness to not sign him up for longer even if it as as a backup CB option - we're low on numbers back there as it is. I think him playing in midfield should be something that we persevere with as well but I get the feeling this is down to him more than anything, perhaps playing as a CB was one of the conditions for him to sign on with us. Madness when you consider he has been bought for huge fees and earned England honors as a CM but he wants to be a CB. 

Every side benefits from a couple of versatile squad players. If he would stay on to play that role he could effectively be a central version of Bennett. Both good to have on the bench and in the squad. But I get the feeling that he see's himself as more than that.

And if he genuinely see's himself as a centre back not wanting to play centre mid, I'd let him go. We've seen the head it and get rid type is more reliable than him. We're probably going to sign at least one centre back in the summer, and we've got Williams and Wharton contracted next season - I'd be more comfortable with those two as emergency options.

Loved watching Tiger yesterday. Played like a machine & that moment with his kids after the 18th was a great watch.

He's obviously been a tool in his past personal life but so have a lot of footballers we've loved over the years.

Take in to account the extent of his injuries, the position he was at and the graft he's put in to make yesterday happen, it's nothing short of incredible.

I also really wanted to see Rodwell in central midfield. His pedigree in the past with Everton and Man City shouldn't be ignored.

We're probably going to have to replace Reed, which could take a bit of money. Rodwell COULD be a good option and we'd only have to pay a wage.

He started there once away at Bolton in October and looked brilliant.

But whether it's financial or due to the injury risk, I think the club has written him off. Across our last 4 games, we've had 5 players start there (Evans, Travis, Reed, Smallwood and Bennett). If he's 6th in the pecking order behind some of those names surely he's not seen as an option for next season.

JOEY ROTHWELL THE HYPE IS REAL.

Great goal, top bins, brilliant.

Just now, Stuart said:

That’s why I said “definitely” - as in I agree with you.

Brereton has played a couple of U23 games, Nuttall played 26 last season (scoring 21 goals, I think).

If Brereton hadn’t cost £7m none of us would be having this debate and he’d be fourth choice (or worse) behind Graham, Nuttall and Samuel. As it is, we’ve spent all that money and we still need a replacement for DG!

He really needs to come off the bench and get a goal but right now he’s relying on injuries to get a chance. It’s been a very poor piece of business by Mowbray.

Agree it’s poor business. I’m not advocating the signing btw and I’m equally as disappointed about it considering the gaping holes elsewhere.

Just providing abit of balance to the argument as there’s a chance he’ll come good in the future particularly as he’s rated by many (not always valuable) and he’s only 19 - much younger than Travis, Nyambe etc.

Fingers he comes good for Rovers sake.

Just now, Stuart said:

Actually agree with the bit in bold.

However, Brereton hasn’t shown any glimpses of anything good in a Rovers shirt. In fact, some of his misses during matches suggest he is absolutely not a natural finisher. When you pay £7m for a forward you have every right to expect goals - or at the very least shots on target that keepers have just been keeping out.

He hasn’t really got close. Counting goals when he was offside is definitely clutching at straws.

Did say he should’ve made more of an impact. He’s had a few bright moments but needs to do a lot more. Just think if he’s that highly rated, we need to give him that chance to play say 3 games upfront and then we’ll have had a better taste. Just like the u23s move did for him on a lower scale.

Sure Graham would be berated and wouldn’t show anything if 95% of his few minutes were from the wing.

Also said it was clutching at straws - they were both miles onside though so on other days would’ve stood and we’d be sat here now maybe saying 2 goals from those minutes considering he’s played on the wing wouldn’t be that bad... miles better ratio than Armstrong anyway. But again... clutching.

Just now, bazza said:

I hope that's true.

Rovers twitter, ankle injury 

Reed injured, shame.

Armstrong Dack and Rothwell behind Graham is dangerous and is a bolder move than we’re used to, fair play Tony.

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Logically speaking, we shouldnt need a striker at all. We have our player of the season and a 7m striker Mowbray has told us to judge next season whilst suggesting he intends to play him much more. So really, there surely is no need to bring in a striker at all. As it is, I feel like Mowbrays words will prove hollow in terms of Brereton and he WILL sign a striker, which to be honest I would also do because quite simply, I've seen nothing to suggest that Brereton is the man any time soon.

But yeah, I personally worry that left back is going to be neglected and continue to be a major point of conceding goals for us next season.

I guess the need in his mind comes from Graham’s age and Brereton not being ready to step up. I think he will hope that Graham and a new striker will be sufficient for next season, with said new striker and Brereton being the main men the season after. Or maybe he see’s Brereton and Armstrong being a future partnership as they are 19 and 22 respectively and he’s invested a good amount in to them, there’s a number of possible scenarios.

Me too. Unless Bell miraculously learns to defend with purpose from now until the first day of next season, I think we’ll still be way too weak defensively no matter who else we sign in other defensive positions.

Just now, roversfan99 said:

So to clarify, you think Graham in the starting 11 is a weaker point than Bell, Raya, Nyambe or Bennett?

We need a number of signings but agree with this totally. When watching our strongest 11, the need for a centre back and a left back sticks out like a sore thumb over any other position for me.

Just now, Stuart said:

Nuttall 13 app* (2 starts), 339 minutes, 2 goals

Brereton 24 app* (5 starts), 692 minutes, 0 goals

* Brereton played in 3 cup games, Nuttall’s games were all against Championship opponents.

 

Top and bottom of it, as with most strikers, you never get a good picture of them until they get to start a few games in a row in their actual position.

Vast majority of Breretons minutes have been on the wing. Whilst he should’ve made more of an impact I do feel for him. Got to play a couple of games centrally for the u23’s and he actually looked decent and most importantly, he knew what he was doing in terms of his position. Then when back in the first time like at Villa, he gets chucked on to play 20 mins on the right wing: no wonder he look lost.

Clutching at straws too but he had two legit goals chalked off for offside at Bournemouth and Preston, real shame they didn’t stand as I’m sure his confidence would be higher and the spotlight/pressure would’ve been off him considerably.

Can see Samuel being loaned out to league one next season. Possibly even Nuttall.

If Brereton was an academy product it would be him first out on loan, but with that purchase price the club wouldn’t even consider it as it’d make them look dafter than they already do.

I think we’ll bring in a striker to compete with Graham, with BB seen as ‘next in line’ behind that.

Only thing that would change that structure for me is if we decide to change to a two upfront formation.

3 hours ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Not on the wing though!

Indicative of the manager not the player!