8 minutes ago, tomphil said:

 I'd also wager if you are recruiting these types for Bodo Glimt they'd look better in that league.

Hirst seemed to have a good season a level below and i think it's obvious that is where he's probably best suited. Another season or two there and a bit more strength about him from regular games and he might be ready to step up.

If he was one of ours coming through we'd look at him and say he needs to be more robust and needs loaning out to get games.

I remember Wigan fans singing his praises before we played them away this season. Apparently he absolutely ruined them at Fratton Park when they played their last season.

No doubt that he has badly disappointed this season, but I still suspect that there's a decent player there that will show some ability at some point. I just doubt that it will be with us this season. 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Hope he doesn't get silly with the changes, I want a proper go at getting into the quarter finals. Make a few changes, maybe bring some of the likes of Adam Wharton, Travis, Hedges Szmodics and Markanday in, but not token appearances for Edun, Garrett, Pears, Hirst etc.

I wouldn't mind Edun playing. Pickering has a tendency to pick up injuries and we're stretched at full back as it is. 

Garrett too did okay against Sunderland too, so I'd be happy enough with him getting some gametime. Maybe not starting given the amount of competition we have in midfield. 

3 hours ago, TruRover said:

Have we actually been linked with anyone?

A fullback, CM and striker to replace Hirst would be my targets 

I wouldn't be against bringing in another CM, but whoever it is would need to be some player if it was to be worthwhile 

We're already in a position where a player like Buckley or Adam Wharton aren't even getting on the bench when everyone's fit. All of our options there have their weakness, but I think that's pretty par for the course at this level. 

30 minutes ago, roverandout said:

I'm just praying Southgate doesn't go into his shell ala the Italian game. Keep the formation same players play on the front foot. I think walker and rice can double up on mbappe. Let them worry about us. We have the better midfield so use that to our advantage 

I wouldn't advocate going into our shell, but I think a back three (which needs to include Walker) could be a good option for this one to be fair. Goes some way to neutralise their strengths and our weaknesses. Deny Mbappe the space he really wants, put another lightning quick defender on his side. Invites us to try and get the ball from back to front a bit quicker with space for maybe Rashford to exploit. Their defence, and to a lesser extent their midfield doesn't worry me, but then again they'll be saying the same about us. 

I think what you said a couple of pages back about this being a game that we'll win 2/5 times is about right for me. Really it's a shame that this is a quarter final, as you could argue we're the best two teams left in the tournament. 

11 minutes ago, roverandout said:

I think he's very good on the ball. I've seen him skip past players. He just doesn't do it alot

I think he's really effective on the ball. He just looks like he shouldn't be!

He creates a hatful and rarely gives the ball away. My point is that he's always been a bit inelegant and relies more on clever movement than pace, so I think we're seeing Harry Kane being Harry Kane rather than England picking an unfit player. 

Difficult one this - I think some players become so associated as the 'good' player for a non-elite team, that they eventually become in danger of being overrated in a strange sort of way. I'd put Okocha in that category. Obviously brilliant, but people knew it. And he probably got the disproportionate amount of the credit for what was a generally very strong Bolton side. As much as I loved MGP, he was similar in that he was a quality match of the day player whereas some of our others went under the radar. 

On 25/11/2022 at 10:12, Sparks Rover said:

One of my favourite all time players..Mousa Dembele....the one at Spurs.  Absolute genius.  Underrated by the public, not by his teammates. 

Dembele is a great shout. Fabulous player. 

14 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

He looks slow, lethargic and unfit.

On his day he is obviously first choice.  I don't believe he is fit and how many times do we need to rely on a injured player?  Been there too many times mate....it will end the same way

Tongue slightly in cheek, doesn't he always look a bit like that? He's an amazingly productive player, but he's always looked a bit clumsy and untidy on the ball, even though the end product of his passing is top drawer. He's never really had pace either. So far to me he's just looked like typical Harry Kane. 

I don't think a team containing Bale, Ramsey and Allen have the legs to press us like the US did. They'll be well up for it, but we should have too much.

Wouldn't have started Rashford. I rate him and I'm glad he has rediscovered some form, but I feel he only really warrants his place against teams who will give him space to run in behind. 

2 hours ago, Mike E said:

I would argue Nelsen, but can't remember if he was free or not.

Surprisingly cultured baller in defence from a footballing backwater, could read the game, and hard as nails.

So hard, in fact, he broke his leg early in a game away to Charlton and kept playing! There's something about Kiwis, they know no pain!

He was indeed free. We signed a load of players around that time for less than a million (the Axe, Zurab, Samba) but I think Nelsen was a bosman.

An amazing free - but not quite in the Brad category for me (Moran was slightly before my time).

Also played a massive role in NZ going unbeaten during a World Cup campaign in a group that included Italy. I remember Sky used to do player ratings around that time, but basically never awarded 10s. 

When the Kiwis drew with Italy, they gave Nelsen a 10 with the one-word caption, "Heroic". 

5 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Since its inception 20 different managers have won the FIFA World Cup and all these winning managers led their own country's national team.

So, no foreign manager has ever won the  WC and only two have reached the final, and lost.

Ok it can be argued that there has to be a first time but I don't think England are good enough to tempt fate challenge history.

Cause and effect - foreign managers aren't going to be winning the World Cup if the best teams have only ever employed managers from their own country!

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Nothing says Gareth Southgate like the rumoured change of Henderson for Bellingham tomorrow night.

I can get that if the idea is to keep him fresh for the latter stages. Otherwise...

That said, I think we'll convincingly beat Wales tomorrow. Their important players can't put in a physical performance like the US could on Saturday. The World Cup has just come a couple of years too late for a lot of that squad. 

43 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Based on the evidence so far very hard to look beyond either France or Brazil. No one else looks competitive really. Thought Spain might be contenders but for all their midfield quality lack a cutting edge or strong enough at the back. Belgium, Germany, Portugal, Netherlands and Argentina all disappointing.

Agree that those two are the ones with 'unblotted' copy books so far.

I still think the the tournament is wide open though. No team stands out to the degree that Spain did around 10 years ago, for instance. Or even France last time for that matter. 

Randomness and taking your chances are seriously underrated factors in knockout football, so I'd still give all the teams you mention a better than fighting chance (possibly not Belgium after today). 

45 minutes ago, ben_the_beast said:

England's record in major tournaments under Southgate.

WC 2018 Wins: Tunisia, Panama, Colombia (Pens), Sweden. 

Losses: Belgium x2, Croatia 

Euro 2020 Wins: Croatia, Czech, Germany, Ukraine, Denmark

Drew and lost to Scotland and Italy. 

 

In all of that bunch I'd say our squad is significantly better than all opposing teams rather than Croatia and Germany. Possibly Denmark. 

In the losses we've been ahead and Southgate hasn't changed the set up until we've conceded or gone behind. Like some I'm not even saying unleash all the attacking talent we have. But simple adjustments to out set up, specifically when we're outnumbered in the middle. When it's our 2 battlers vs 3 opposition players we constantly lose any kind of stranglehold in a game. 

That and doing away with favoritism. Sterling and Mount for example seem guaranteed of a place regardless of performance. With the talent in the squad. It doesn't even need a handbrake being let off. Just play our most in form and talented players.

My point being. His record is to be commended. You can only beat what is in front of you. However we've repeatedly failed in sterner tests. When you see the same mistakes being ignored (USA dominating us in the middle of the pitch and again... favoritism) it's only right that his credentials are questioned. 

Just to give an analogy to another national team. Would anyone say Belgium have achieved what they have over the last 6 years in spite of Martinez or because of him? I think most would agree he's failed to squeeze the extra 10% out of a world class squad and they've always fallen just short, with him being the weak link. 

England have huge talent in the squad. Failures of old lead us to thinking reaching the latter stages of tournaments is a huge achievement. It should be an expectation. 

Very close to my view. I really like the off the pitch stuff that Southgate has done to change the feeling around England. He seems to deal with the players very well, says the right things, etc.

But - and it's a massive but - there's very little evidence that he has the tactical nous to get the most out of the talented squad available to him, or that he can react when things start going against us.

His record in tournaments is far more chequered than some admit. We lost three games in 2018, and were taken to pens by Colombia. Flat track bullies in one of the most fortunate runs to a WC semi that you will ever see. He deserves more credit for 2020, but there too I really believe a different manager makes us more likely to beat Italy before pens. 

Spain look handy, but then again they have the potential to be flat track bullies with their style of play. 

Their game against Germany looks like it should be a humdinger now. Even a draw might effectively knock the Germans out if Japan win well against Costa Rica. 

29 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

This result is an upset, but it's much less of a shock than the Saudi win. That was 3rd in the rankings losing to 51st, this was 11th losing to 24th. I've thought Japan are a decent technical side for years now, underrated, but it's still a bit of a surprise, and a pleasing one of course as it's Germany. With Spain in the group too, there's a chance of Germany not getting past the group stage now.

100 percent. They were a hair's whisker away from knocking out Belgium in 2018. You'd obviously back the Germans against them more often than not, but it nothing like the same as yesterday. 

14 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Looks like we’ve all forgotten about England v Iceland.

I'm still trying!

The VAR decision genuinely took the shine off what was an excellent performance for me. Obviously 6-1 bs 6-2 doesn't make much difference, but is this what we can expect as the tournament progresses? If those sorts of calls are going to be made in the knock out stage you might as well award the World Cup by drawing lots. 

8 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Odd claim. 122-127-year old club with 3 FA cups and a European Cup Winners Cup. Never fallen below the second tier. Now in their 65th season in the top flight I believe.

And they won the World Cup!

8 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Can we not have a tough tackler that can pass the ball and score goals?  I take issue with your assertion he is mobile too...

Don't think there's many at this level who do all of those things well consistently, and those that do tend to get snapped up pretty quick. 

9 minutes ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

             Kaminski

Carter   Phillips  Wharton  Mola

           Buckley  garrett

Markanday   dack    dolan

                Hirst/vale

If Mola is fit (thought I picked up that he was injured, but I could be wrong) I'd play him centre back and play Edun at left back. Leave S. Wharton on the bench.

Otherwise I'd probably do something similar with JRC at right back and Carter in the middle. I'd avoid starting any outfield player who's in line to play on Sunday. 

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Why would we get 10 to 15 million offers in January when we never got those sorts of offers guarantee in the summer so why now? 

We probably wouldn't, but prices are usually inflated in January and teams get desperate. Teams might want to pay a decent fee to avoid having to compete with more clubs in the summer. It's not out of the question that a team throws decent money at BBD. 

27 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

So many of that squad are either horribly out of form or injured. Walker, Phillips and James all injured, Sterling has been crap all season, Mount crap and overrated, Grealish has done nothing since joining City, Dier crap, Calvert Lewin has done nothing for ages and has only just come back from injury, Ward Prowse is out of form, Henderson is out of form and always injured and we have no centre backs with either quality or any real form to speak of. We go into the World Cup in a very poor state really.

Partially agree with this, but some of those players were only going to be bit part players. I'm not overly bothered if Phillips isn't fit if Bellingham is playing instead, or that Calvert-Lewin hasn't been on form for a while. 

Others are more concerning, but (and I'm pinning a lot on this) are going to be playing in a totally different system for England than they do for their clubs. Maguire, despite everything, could easily be a completely different player when playing a deep 3 in the back compared to what he has been asked to do at United for the last couple of years. Grealish hasn't become a bad player either and it's not as though England will be asking him to play the same way as he does for City. Sterling is a bit more worrying as there's nothing about how Chelsea play which accounts for his poor form. 

Some are coming into good form too. I wouldn't start him, but it's good to see that Rashford is looking more like the player he can be. 

I think this would be a mistake, based on what we've seen from the team and the limited bits that we've seen of Dack. 

But - if JDT has made his mind up - there's little point to keep a player who is probably our highest earner warming the bench, and sometimes not even that. 

Completely agree with those saying make wholesale changes.

Hopefully gives a chance to the likes of Buckley and Markanday to get closer to the side, although it's not exactly going to be ideal circumstances for them to showcase their talent. 

A few wins like this one wouldn't have gone amiss after Christmas last year. 

We now have around half of what we'll likely need for a top 6 spot - which is an impressive achievement for the management team given the tricky situation they inherited. 

As a pointless bit of trivia - when you look at our results this season compared to the same fixtures last term, we're 14 points up.  Obviously you can't read too much into that, but it's good to see that we're picking points in games that we didn't last time out.