Just now, Mercer said:

Please do the decent thing Mowbray and just walk away and go enjoy your wife's lemon drizzle cake to your heart's content.

Benno’s got pictures of Mogga piping icing, surely.

19 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Absolutely he takes credit for the wins, no argument there. 

However, I think it's naive to say there's no luck involved and we have a buffer solely because we have good solid wins. It currently looks like we'll stay up with fewer points than when we went down, which suggests we]re overall not improving, and a little fortunate regarding our position compared to performances. There's also the fact that there have been two abysmal teams this year leaving only 1 relegation place, which is nothing whatsoever to do with our ability. So yeah, i think there's been a good slice of luck for TM this season in our position. 

Tough to say. It’s all relative.

Going down on a pretty much unprecedented 51 points by goal difference suggests that a lot more teams around us won a lot more games.

I take that as the league is tougher for the lower half now than it was that season a couple of years ago, or you could say that there are worse teams this season, it’s up for debate.

Ex Premier League Stoke, Swansea and the impressive Brentford are still within touching distance (technically, yes I know we are wank) and will do well to break the 60 point barrier.

Its mad this league. Just a couple of crap moments that the manager nor the overall performance can prevent have us the difference between top 10 and 16th.

So luck evens out, We have been very good in spells this year. The table proves it.

We’ve been beyond abject for a couple of months though, and the lack of belief today frightened me as much as it warmed me in January.

God, we were really bloody good until a couple of months ago.

Thats when I bet a Wendy 100 notes we’d finish above them ?

Just now, DE. said:

Easy to be a "leader" when things are going well, but the real leaders show themselves when things aren't going as planned. Do we have any? 

I’ve become very disillusioned with Mulgrew and Bennett. They’d have carried a few teams out of league one.

But they’ve been arguably our worst regular starters this year.

Fight can only take you so far.

It looked like they’d lost even that today.

4 hours ago, Blue blood said:

TM is a very lucky man there's so many poor teams. 

I didn’t think he was lucky at two nil up vs Brentford two months ago - I was genuinely googling “Travelodge Wembley”.

We have a buffer because we have been good. Solid results bar the odd battering in 2018 and in January we looked unbeatable, a completely different side than today.

The fact we are discussing it is because since that moment we’ve been absolutely dire.

An unprecedentedly bad run.

DID I JINX IT?

Credit where it’s due though.

If he takes responsibility for the losses, he takes credit for the wins.

Just now, DE. said:

Not sure it was post match, I can't remember where it was from. It caused a bit of a furore when it came out though. I think it might have been back in November when Wigan and Preston beat us.

Ah I thought you meant today.

If that second half urgency was due to a self directed team talk I’d sack the lot of them.

If you’re playing well, and the lads are up for it - let them take care of it.

The “leaders” we’ve got on the pitch in Benno, Mulgrew and Graham were absolutely nowhere today.

Lifeless.

Need surgery.

Just now, DE. said:

I appreciate that in the modern game you need to give the players some degree of control, but Mowbray's comments made it sound like at half time he just went out for a cup of tea whilst the lads discussed amongst themselves, then came back just as they were about to go out and said "alright boys, go get 'em!" ... now it was probably just TM wording it badly, but even so those comments didn't give me confidence Mowbray has a good grip on this team. They like him, sure, but do they respect him enough to really listen when he has something to say? Based on the last five months, barring January, it seems increasingly that the answer is no.

Sorry which post match interview are you referring to?

Nothing on Radio Lancs Twitter and the ifollow one is a whole lot of nothing as I remember.

Just now, DE. said:

TM is worried about everybody. We could be playing Harrogate next week and he'd be fretting over their right back and working out ways to stop him.

Up until November you could have described us as attritional, industrial, or whatever else is said to describe teams that work hard but have no set style of play. Since then, though, we've seen countless individual errors, poor performances and generally bad play. Where was our team spirit when we were hammered by Wigan, Preston or Brentford? Away from home especially we seem to have no appetite at all. 

What's confusing is that if we were planning to be an industrious, direct team, why in the world were we bringing in Rothwell, Palmer, Armstrong, Brereton, etc? These are players for an entirely different style of play which TM has shown no evidence of wanting to play. I can't understand the rationale behind our recruitment, let alone where we're supposed to be going as a team. This is why I have such major reservations about giving TM another summer transfer window. 

It is odd.

TM signs some very exciting young forwards. But they aren’t integral to the first team yet.

I think they are good young players, and I’m happy to let him stockpile a few more.

But I’d like him to start bloody using them.

Just now, OJRovers said:

Where is Ben Gladwin? Genuinely couldn’t be any worse than Bennett at number 10 if Dack’s head has gone.

He fell in the Vince Grella hole.

Just now, Stuart said:

Despite being a fan, I actually think dropping Graham to the bench next season is the right thing to do.

He is another year older but could become the direct option for later on in games where we are struggling. Less time on the pitch to get the most out of him.

I don’t think TM thinks we are safe, therefore DG starts and we revert to the “trusted” lads.

But DG is really not mobile enough to get the best out of our attackers bar Dack.

Not many read the game like Brad.

Danny needs to start seeing the bench a bit more, and surely has to next season.

Just now, DE. said:

Realistically all of the above is also going to take a change of manager. There's no sign of us getting there under TM, and it's been nearly two and a half years now. He's brought in the players to do it, but shows no desire to change our style of play at all. It's really disappointing how little our play has progressed, particularly this season. 

Ergo why I’m only just getting on the concern train.

Nothing today felt like we were trying to get out of our comfort zone.

The attritional, team spirit percentage play has taken us a long way so far. , and I love that style. But we missed that one spark we need in Dack.

Im really worried that the fight and belief wasn’t there.

Last season’s Benno could have played in goal and kept a clean sheet. 

Today he was asked to dictate our attack and looked like he couldn’t be arsed.

Id have taken a 3-0 loss today with Brereton, Chapman, Rothwell, Travis, Buckley.

Judging from the post match comments, TM is more worried about Rotherham than we’d like to think.

Just now, DE. said:

With Mowbray's recent comments about letting the dressing room sort itself out, I do wonder how much of that spirit was down to him, and how much was down to a lot of the players just being mates and getting on with each other. Now that Dack is going off the rails, Mulgrew is completely out of form, Bennett is all over the place and the youngsters are struggling, perhaps the players are struggling to get themselves on the same page. Does TM retain the type of authority where he could get the players together and sort them out? Based on past comments I'm not sure, and it was worrying to me when he started talking about how the dressing room is the player's domain and he doesn't get involved. I can't imagine many top managers coming out with comments like that. In fact I've never heard any other manager say that.

I think you could call it a modern approach. The kind of thing that works with a Pep or a Solksjaer in comparison to a Mourinho.

Difference is a lot of our “big characters” are not Kompanys or Pogbas and have been pretty fucking shit.

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

That's got a lot to do with where he plays. I've not seen his chance today but he's rarely played in on goal. When he has been played in,  like his goal against Wigan last season at home and the goal this season when he cut inside at the DE and rolled it in the corner,  he finishes brilliantly. Unfortunately Mowbray has built a team that does nothing but hoof it up front. AA needs to play on the shoulder of the last man with some players behind him who can pass the ball. When he does he'll hopefully look a different player. 

Agree about the joke that is the BB deal. 

Getting towards the kind of football that gets the best out of the Armstrong’s,Brereton’s and Rothwell’s is going to take some major surgery.

A change of formation, a change of intent and approach to games, and likely dropping DG.

I don’t expect these things to feasibly happen until preseason.

Just now, DE. said:

Unfortunately Mowbray has a habit of stockpiling players who should play off Graham but inevitably end up playing out wide or not at all, because that is Dack's position. I noticed that Palmer scored for Bristol City today...

Meh, there’s a million Kasey Palmers. I’d as soon as have Jack Payne.

(another one)

End of the season I’ll have a good hard think.

After today I genuinely don’t know where the next point is coming from.

Thats a worry.

It was the complete lack of fight or urgency that worried me today - my favourite aspects of the last couple of years and what has still  kept me believing we have something to work with.

Just now, DE. said:

How many times do you hear Armstrong "nearly scored" though? 4 goals from a forward player isn't great. As I said, he's young so I'm not expecting the finished article, but I do think he misses a lot of chances which at the very least should be on target. The bar/post counts as off target. I don't want to be too harsh on Armstrong as he's far from our biggest issue but I do think if he was more clinical in front of goal we'd have a few more points this season.

One thing I will note, however, is that Armstrong has represented far better value for money at £1.75m than a certain other young striker at £7m...

I’d say most of the chances he’s had that were “unlucky” or produced saves were all of his own making off the right.

Not many number 9s anymore that are four foot tall. 

Neither of our ways of playing currently suits him, but he’s a good little player. Should play off Graham.

Just now, BankEnd Rover said:

Again why Rothwell didn't have the best game today. Smallwood, Evans & Bennett should be nowhere near that starting 11!

I’d say he got enough of the ball to do something with it. But he faded badly. Maybe match fitness but that direct running is incredibly effective off the bench, but easily managed when you’ve worked out where to position defenders down the blind alleys.

Surely others saw why I agree with Mowbray about his defensive nous too? Rothwell is a 10 in this system, but needs someone with ability to play off.

4-3-3 with Dack in the middle and he’ll shine.

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

A bit harsh. He's not the best footballer but I think he's quality in front of goal and should be playing up front with a partner. He's a lazy shite at times but he's not a winger so it must be soul destroying playing out wide all the time. Whether he's a good or average Championship striker remains to be seen. 

I’d say competent to good.

But he needs to be up top to do anything of note, or playing with an effective no10/no 8 that can pass the ball into his path.

He didn’t have that today in Bennett/Evans.

2 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I think he’s also quite lazy and greedy. Might be better more central, but I don’t think so.

I think he’s a got some cracking finishes in him when he’s on song.

Wasn’t he playing his way back into the team at the start of January? That kind of desire is what he needs.

But he also needs to know that in this squad if Dacky isn’t playing, and Rothwell is wide, that HE is playing off DG.

Not fucking Elliott Bennett...

I loved Benno more than most last year, player of the season. But number 10? No. Just no. He takes about five touches to do anything and then it’s crap when he’s in a forward position. That is the worst crossing I’ve seen in ages.

He’s should be a backup RB.

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Did Rothwell actually do anything of note today or was he running around a lot without much effect?

Pretty much.

Hes a fantastic impact sub. He offers running and directness. It waned after about 20mins as no one else was bloody moving around him, he got sloppy, and he probably should’ve closed the ball down for their goal.

1 hour ago, AAK said:

To be honest, Stuart, comments like that i wouldnt give the time of day mate. Once upon a time id give people the benefit of them still getting used to venky life, but now, fuck them, fuck them right off. If we are running a club with that attitude they can all get fucked as far as im concerned. Im absolutley sick of incompetent wankers.

We’ve only ever had incompetent wankers since they’ve come in.

The only two we’ve even had flashes of universal praise for are the two that seem like genuine blokes.

We are still very much a Venky run club and don’t ever forget it.

2 minutes ago, Rogerb said:

Loose against Derby and TM's record will be worse!

Don’t worry we’ve got Forest away after that.

?

Just now, JHRover said:

Not going to happen in the Championship. In League One it might. We're going to lose millions a year until we get promoted or unless we sell a £15 million of talent each year. The academy helps but it's only part of it. 

Thats kind of the core of my argument that we can’t be going into seasons expecting a play off push.

Look at our owners.

Look at the debt.

I’d like us to become a bit different. A club that doesn’t whinge, as Bowyer did, that we can only offer 10k a week - then signs Koita and Peschi. 

Imagine being a Championship club bordering on self sustainable.

There needs to be some realism because if we keep getting it wrong at this level we don’t have the fiscal means or responsibility to dig ourselves out of it.

The academy, frees and loans has to play a HUGE part.

Experience wants money. Rovers spending money concerns me.

Just now, Vinjay17 said:

...but who's to say they did anything more than sign off on Mowbray? It seemed more like Senior's appointment. 

Still remember the 0-0 draw at Wolves and Mowbray's decisions that day confounded logic then and embodied weakness. There's a difference between L1 managerial ability and Championship plus it helped having one of the biggest budgets in the division. Just because some people felt Mowbray was capable of getting promotion from L1 (including myself) does not mean they feel he's a great Championship manager. I don't think he's even capable of "scraping into the playoffs" in this league and you can't hire a manager on that basis either. You need to feel like they can gain automatic promotion and build towards reaching that point.

Just now, Stuart said:

Yes, Mowbray is a decent manager in League One with the biggest resources and best facilities.

The problem have arisen whenhe has tried to use that same resource at a level beyond them.

This is the unfortunate line of thinking that I’m starting to entertain.

A bit.

Just now, JHRover said:

So we can't afford to get it wrong and yet you'd go with Johnson who has never managed before?

We would either need to go down the route of experience of this level with recent success in it (not one season 10 years ago) or alternatively have the conviction to unearth a foreign gem like Norwich, Huddersfield and Middlesbrough did. The first of those requires a big chequebook as those managers are sought after and can name a higher prices, the second group require a plan and brains at the top of the club to know what to look for and cast the net wide enough to find it. Neither will happen.

Exactly.

So next best guess is someone that can keep us solvent and competitive by utilising our academy.

We grab someone that throws £20m at it like Karanka would and sign 29 year olds on four year contracts again then down the road we will be in a worse position than we are today.

Just now, Stuart said:

They struck gold with Mowbray because he has completely shut the dissenting fans up.

Good post though.

Cheers.

Its not to be sniffed at though.

He shut them up by signing Dack, Smallwood, and Armstrong. Jacking Steele for Raya. By shipping out the likes of Lowe and giving the captaincy and a consistent centre half berth to Mulgrew.

He built the right team and right spirit and belief for League One and that carried through to the first six months of this season.

I wouldn’t have trusted Appleton, Coyle, Berg, Black, Lambert or even Bowyer to get us out of that league tbh.

Just now, Vinjay17 said:

As I've stated there could have been more continental names on the poll but where do you pick them out from? I don't know exactly why Norwich City appointed Farke (as I haven't read up on it much) but it's clearly worked out as have other foreign coaches recently. Does anyone really think Waggott has the scope or imagination to scour the continent (won't even get started on Raos) and try to figure out where someone like Farke, Wagner, etc could come from? Then of course there's Leeds who managed to attract a big name in Bielsa. I don't think that's likely under the current regime let's not even bother making comparisons to Wolves. 

 

 

 

Changing manager is the biggest gamble you can take.

In nearly a decade Venkys have had a decent spotter of players (with a good budget) fall into their lap via Bowyer, and made one good decision at the time in TM.

So one out of six or something?

The best chance would be an “in the club falls into their lap” situation again.