eh? What question. And whats sad?

Good grief. Here's the question I posed in my earlier post - again.

Yet you continue to think that just because you've come up with a daft idea you somehow possess the gift of foresight and wisdom. In that case, I'll ask again, how exactly would your idea attract higher attendances to Ewood (or wherever "Lancashire United" are supposedly going to play)? Because imo, ignoring the practicalities of your idea for now (and there's a lot to ignore), a merger/takeover of any local clubs would just serve to alienate the fans of those clubs - thus reducing crowds, not increasing them. Now, you can get as upset as you want, but until you can answer that question with a reasoned argument then your idea means sweet fa.

Just more nonsense from you Theno - and I notice you've failed to answer my question again. Sad.

Conficious said ' The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step'.

Right well clever clogs scotty, nobody on this board, and I mean NOBODY has come up with a solution that is aimed at ensuring gates in our local club not in excess of 30,000 but in excess of 40,000 which would level the playing field between us and the really top clubs! Can you remember Jack Walker extolling the idea of 'Think Big'? Often wrong in business was he scotty? I suggest that you do likewise rather than grubbing around for another 5000 or so that will put us up with the likes of such luminaries as Wolves or Forest. The 'lets get immigrants' involved and 'lets get Cumbrians' to come on down whilst noteworthy is doomed to failure in the bigger picture I'm afraid.

As for your last sentance have you never heard of a 'Think tank'? Never heard of inventors or ideas men? Many see the way forward although they may not know the nuts and bolts of the proposal. I'm not saying my idea is the best but it's without doubt the best yet, although our resident Ostriches will never agree! (Soon to be Dodo's perhaps )

Anyway enough of me lets hear you have a go please. Lets hear how you propose to move BRFC forward from our current position of relative strength to a vibrant, healthy and self sufficient future. And btw thats a question that I shall in turn ask you every time you come over all smarmy gobshite with me.

The fact that you've posted so obnoxiously and defensively just shows me that you realise your idea has no merit, has no worth, and would simply not work. By stating constantly that you have the answer when you clearly haven't makes me wonder why you need to consistently seek such self assurance.

Anyone can come up with a stupid idea. I could say, for example, that the way to solve our attendance problems would be to go after the "pink pound". We could play in a pink kit with tight spandex shorts, re-name ourselfs to Blackburn Ravers, have the team walk out to Kylie - all in an attempt to attract gay football fans to Ewood. Of course, it's a ridiculous suggestion, it wouldn't solve the attendance problem at all and would just serve to alienate most of our current fans, but it has about as much merit as your idea.

Yet you continue to think that just because you've come up with a daft idea you somehow possess the gift of foresight and wisdom. In that case, I'll ask again, how exactly would your idea attract higher attendances to Ewood (or wherever "Lancashire United" are supposedly going to play)? Because imo, ignoring the practicalities of your idea for now (and there's a lot to ignore), a merger/takeover of any local clubs would just serve to alienate the fans of those clubs - thus reducing crowds, not increasing them. Now, you can get as upset as you want, but until you can answer that question with a reasoned argument then your idea means sweet fa.

As for your ridiculously childish repost of "what's your idea then?" I'm able to admit that I haven't got one. I don't believe that there is a simple, one-off idea or scheme that can be implemented to turn our attendances around. The whole situation is a complex one and a number of areas require change. What I do know though is that talk of club mergers, super leagues, and clubs relocating just serve to perpetuate the problem. Schemes like that are not tackling the underlying issues, they are simply papering over the cracks and alienating more and more fans along the way.

The sad truth is that, more than ever before, money matters. The clubs with the most money are, by and large, the most successful. Rovers are always going to struggle to compete with the big city clubs in the current climate as we simply don't have the fanbase. All the club can do in the short term is maximise their resources as best they can. That means good team management, good accountancy, and good transfer dealing - things I think the club have done pretty well since Hughes took over. The club need to hold onto the fans that they've got as best as they can, and hope that the team continues to be successful. There were a number of ideas and schemes in the BRISA Attendance Proposal (some of which I notice have been implemented this summer) that could help in this regard. What is sure is that the club have to look after their existing fans better than they ever have before - and I'm not entirely sure they are doing that as well as they could at the moment.

In the longer term things have to change nationally or even internationally if Rovers are really going to compete with the bigger clubs. The current 'money = success' formula has to change, or at least be watered down, before the whole game, not just Rovers, find themselves in trouble. The Champions League is a ridiculous tournament that is designed to ensure that the rich clubs stay rich. The current Premiership TV deal gives the clubs far too much money, money that is not distributed evenly enough, and provides far too much coverage of the matches.

By reducing the amount of money available through both the Champions League and TV, and distributing that money much more evenly throughout the whole English league, the clubs would then be forced to reduce their wage bills and, hopefully, be in a position where they could reduce their ticket prices. The fear of failure wouldn't be as high as it is now meaning that clubs wouldn't be as likely to spend money they haven't got just to maintain their status. In addition, if the saturation TV coverage was reduced to a more sensible level fans may just start to come back to watch live football instead.

Unfortunately, football has become such big business these days that it's hard to see any of the above changing in the near future. Eventually though the problems we are having at Rovers will start to effect even the biggest clubs, and perhaps then things will start to change for the better.

... so the PC brigade would have a fit with "Whoa, Black Benni, Bam-ba-Lam".

I didn't realise that was the song you meant (never heard of Ram Jam I'm afraid). As someone who I'm sure AESF would class as part of the infamous "PC brigade" (i.e. anyone who disagrees with his bigotry) I think that would be quite a good song to sing - certainly original. Sadly I expect probably far too original for the Blackburn End and the drummer.

Well even Theno's idea doesn't deserve a silly point scoring post like that , Scotty ...

Unlike your post it wasn't point scoring at all. Theno continually posts that he has the answer to our attendance problems - I continually ask him to explain how his idea will work - he never does. As long as he keeps bringing up the "Lancashire United" idea I'll keep asking him to expand on his theory.

If that's ok with you obviously.

I have Den!

An idea that you haven't got a clue how to implement, whether it's even possible to implement, or whether it will work or not (imo it wouldn't). Still, having the idea is all that counts apparently so good effort.

6-1 Rovers. Stuart Pearce will spontaneously combust on about the 71st minute mark. They're going down - we're not.

Got back a couple of hours ago - what a fantastic trip.

Overall the result was a fair one. Salzburg started the game better than us, we were too defensive and negative early on and I think Salzburg sensed this. They started to get forward more often and it wasn't a surprise when they scored. It was finished excellently but the chance came from yet another long ball through the heart of our defence.

Our equaliser came a bit out of the blue to be honest - but what a free-kick. From that moment until half-time though we tore Salzburg apart, winning everything in midfield. Both Tugay and Savage were immense during that period and we fully deserved to be leading at half-time.

We looked comfortable throughout most of the second half until about 10-15 minutes from the end. Salzburg kept putting more forwards on and we just started to defend deeper and deeper. Out wide we allowed far too many crosses to get into the box and Salzburg started to create chances - good chances as well. We rode our luck until the last minute which made their equaliser such a sickener, but it had been coming.

Anyway, a few points:

- McCarthy can't play as a lone striker imo. He isn't strong enough, he doesn't win anything in the air, and he doesn't work hard enough. I lost count of the amount of times one of our full-backs had the ball and was looking for channel run only to see a static McCarthy in the middle. That's not to say that McCarthy's a bad player, I just think he needs someone to play off.

- Neill and Pedersen on the left didn't do enough to stop crosses coming into the box. Salzburg's forwards were all big lumps, so the easiest way to defend against them is to stop their supply. We just didn't do it. The whole defence turned to Pedersen when Salzburg got their late equaliser - Ooijer in particular gave him a right roasting - as it was the umpteenth time he'd let his opponent run off him.

- We wasted possession far too much in the last quarter of the game. As Salzburg pushed forward we had numerous chances to break, but we either lost the ball in midfield (both Bentley and Pedersen tried to take men on too often rather than playing simple balls) or wasted crossing chances. We could, and should, have killed the game off on the break long before they equalised, but we didn't have the necessary intelligence or composure to do it.

- Tugay was man of the match, closely followed by Savage, closely followed by Friedel. They all did their respective jobs superbly. Salzburg bizarrely gave Tugay time and space to play, and boy did he play. I suspect they might get a bit closer to him at Ewood.

- Our central defence partnership is still a soft touch at times. Zurab is great on the ground, he showed superb composure and skill on a number of occasions to dribble his way out of trouble, but he lacks positional sense and can be bullied. Ooijer is a similar sort of player, and although I think he's better in the air than Zurab, he still doesn't always show the necessary strength and competitiveness required.

- Salzburg were strong, physical, competitive, and their forwards in particular were big units. However, their keeper had a mare and they lack real pace - can't see them doing what Genclerbiligi (sp?) did to us at Ewood when their pacey forward tore us apart on the break. And I didn't see too many of them show any great dribbling ability either. They are a decent, strong, workmanlike team, but they aren't top class.

Neither are we though and we'll definately have to defend crosses better if we want to progress. But I think we've got the edge in midfield and I expect us to do enough - although I'm sure Rovers will put us all through the mill first as ever.

It was mentioned earlier in this thread that Salzburg were recently taken over by the owner of Red Bull and were renamed from SV Austria Salzburg to Red Bull Salzburg, and that their traditional violet and white colours were changed to red and white to match the new sponsors colours.

Well the latest edition of When Saturday Comes carries an update on the story. Apparently, a number of the traditional fans have left and formed a new club (called SV Austria Salzburg naturally enough) in much the same way as fans of Wimbledon and Man U formed AFC Wimbledon and FC United.

The article itself is too long to repeat, and it isn't on the internet (as far as I know), but here's the paragraph that interests us in particular (the match it refers to is Salzburg's Champions League Qualifier against FC Zurich held in August):

Blackburn fans who travel to this month's UEFA Cup tie can expect to find a commercialised matchday experience that resembles an aggressive timeshare pitch held in a circus tent. Against the backdrop of the energy drink's omnipresent logo and name (Bullen-Arena, Bulls' Corner, Bullshop - you shudder to think how they'd rebrand the toilets), the [match] seemed a mere footnote to the pre-match parade of trapeze artists, BMX cyclists, disco lights and obligatory ball-carrying parachutist. And with the vocal violet-white fans now long gone, the muted support of the new Red Bull event consumers made the racist grunting aimed at Zurich's Guinean striker Alhassane Keita all the more audible.

Using this site: Rail Europe the Munich to Salzburg return price is £22.50.

Why have we got the hump?

You've got to remember the context. This was pre-Jack Walker remember and the thought of little old cash-strapped Blackburn Rovers getting into the top league was almost inconcievable. We'd bounced around the (old) 2nd and 3rd divisions for nearly 30 years and had only really come close to getting into the top division once during that period. However, the year before we'd made the play-offs (got beat in the semi by Chelsea) and our then manager, Don Mackay, had put together a good team - probably our best since the early 60's.

We scraped past Watford in the play-off semi-final and absolutely murdered your lot in the home leg at Ewood. It finished 3-1 to us but it could easily have been 5 or 6 (we missed a penalty as well if I remember right).

Still, no worries, off we all trooped to Selhurst Park full of confidence that we could hold onto our two goal lead. Then it all started to go horribly wrong:

- It was my first visit to Selhurst and I couldn't believe how hard it was to find

- We were crammed onto an open, crumbling terrace as far into the corner as was humanly possible giving us a totally crap view of the match

- George Courtney gave you the softest of penalties

- When you got the equaliser (on aggregate) a load of your fans piled onto the pitch. Instead of forcing them off and back onto the terraces, the police just allowed them to stand on the touchline. The ref should have taken the players off, but he allowed play to continue and every time the ball went out one of our players was treated to close quarter physical and verbal abuse.

- When you got the 3rd goal all the fans piled onto the pitch again and this time they wouldn't leave it for ages. Again, the ref refused to take the players off.

- Garner missed a chance in the dying seconds that would have taken the match to penalties.

- At full-time f<(king "Glad All Over" was played repeatedly, at high volume, for what seemed like an eternity.

- After the match, when we were all feeling so depressed it was untrue, we were treated to all sorts of abuse from Palace fans who were supposed to happy at gaining promotion.

I've got nothing against Palace as a club, I just hate Selhurst Park. I've been back 4 or 5 times since and I still hate the place - too many bad vibes. As Gav says, it was my lowest moment as a Rovers fan and one I'll remember until my dying day.

I'm delighted we've gone in for him and I hope we do so again - he's exactly the type of player we need. Even if he's only fit for half the games in a season he'd still be well worth it imo.

Anyone who, before the game, thought "oh, it's only Sheffield United - we should be easily beating this lot" clearly know nothing about football. It was always going to be a tough game against a fully-committed team played in a hostile atmosphere, and so it proved.

The first half was just a battle. Both teams worked hard to close their opponents down, both were physical (without being over-physical), both defended reasonably well and, as a result, both created little. In fact each team only had one real chance each. United's came from (yet another) long ball through the middle of our defence that found Hulse free inside our area. Fortunately he went for power rather than finesse and blasted the ball wide on the half volley. He really should have scored. Our chance came after a neat bit of passing on the left that found the on-rushing Neill clear on the edge of the area. His curled right-foot shot floated wide when he really should have hit the target at least.

So 0-0 at half-time which was a pretty fair reflection on the what had taken place.

I thought we started the second half well and took the game to United. With Bentley and Emerton in particular playing well we started to string some passes together, found some space at last, and genuinely exerted some pressure for the first time in the match. Bentley put some great crosses over during this period, at least one of which should have been converted - Jeffers heading narrowly wide. Jeffers could also have had a penalty when it looked like he was brought down just inside the area.

Eventually though our pressure was rewarded when McCarthy "won" a penalty. Neill and McCarthy had what looked like a bit of a heated debate over who'd be taking the spot-kick, Neill won, and then hit a poor penalty that was comfortably saved by Kenny. The Sheffield crowd, who had been totally silent for most of the second half, suddenly went beserk and reacted as if they'd just scored the winner in a cup final. And you could just see their team lift and Rovers' confidence wilt.

Suddenly it was all United. Playing direct, pacey football they poured up field and took their turn to put us under pressure. And again, their pressure was rewarded with a penalty. I haven't seen the incident on TV yet, and I was sat at the other end of the ground so couldn't tell whether it should have been a penalty or not, but what I did see was the ref warning Zurab about holding before the corner took place. And I also saw that the ref never took his eyes off Zurab as the ball came in. So you'd think that Zurab might have had the sense not to hold on to his attacker. Anyway, the penalty was given, Unsworth stepped up to take it, and Friedel saved it magnificently.

The game then became a bit frantic. Both teams took turns to attack, both looked as capable as the other of getting a winner, and neither seemed happy to settle for a draw. However, it was a total surprise when Sheffield were awarded a second penalty five minutes from time. A long, misdirected ball was seemingly controlled by Neill on his chest at the edge of our area. He wasn't under any pressure and I didn't see any of the United players appeal for anything. So quite why the linesman was manically waving his flag and signalling a penalty was anyone's guess. Unsurprisingly the Rovers players couldn't believe it but their protests were in vain. Up stepped Hulse this time and Friedel pulled off another fantastic save.

Finally, in what was the last move of the match, United created another gilt-edged opportunity and Friedel, once again, made a point-blank save to preserve the point.

Friedel was just a collosus. The man just gets better and better. Man of the match by a mile.

Our full-backs played well again. Emerton linked well with Bentley going forward and defended well when he had to. His pace helped us out on a couple of occasions. Neill looks comfortable at left-back and again roamed forward well. If he'd have scored his penalty he'd have been a contender for man of the match.

Ooijer looked much more assured than he did against Chelsea. He won most things in the air (he's good in the air) and stood up well to United's physical strikers. Zurab again looked composed but gave away what looked to be a stupid penalty. And it's worrying how often we get caught out by a simple long ball through the centre of our defence. We're just not commanding enough at the back at times.

Our midfield improved with the addition of Tugay. Although he wasn't anywhere near his best (United didn't allow him the time and space he likes) he still helped us to pass the ball better than we have so far this season, certainly in the second half anyway. Savage did his job well but picked up a stupid booking in the dying minutes of the game - you have to wonder what goes through his head sometimes.

Out wide we had two completely contrasting performances. On the left, Pedersen did little right. He frequently gave the ball away, his set-pieces were woeful, and it's hard to understand why he wasn't replaced early in the second half. On the right I thought Bentley was our (outfield) man of the match. He linked well with Emerton (we're a real threat down the right now) and whipped in some great crosses. He also worked his socks off defensively.

We were found lacking up front. McCarthy did nothing and didn't work hard enopugh imo. He continues to try fancy flicks and back-heels as well that, more often than not, only serve to break down our attacks and allow the opposition to break at us. Jeffers worked hard and was easily our best attacker. He got into good positions, frequently finding space, sadly though his finishing wasn't clinical enough. He looked sharp though. Nonda came on for McCarthy with about 20 minutes to go and, but for one piece of classy control, didn't really have the service to impress. It's a shame that Roberts was injured as I think it was his sort of game. He'd have held the ball up better and would have had more chance to get on the end of Benley's crosses.

You have to say that it was a good point in the end. When you go away from home, conceed two penalties, and our keeper is man of the match you have to be happy to gain a point. But that doesn't tell the whole story. We battled well in the first half and looked the better team in the second half until we missed our penalty. I'm sure if we'd scored it we'd have gone on to win the game fairly comfortably.

However, it's worrying that we're not creating enough chances, or taking enough of the one's we do create. It's a bit like the last year of Souness's reign when we frequently outplayed opponents but created little. The difference though is that, back then, our forwards were just not good enough. Now I feel that we have real quality up front but it's just taking time for the team to click and work out how best to supply them.

I'm still not worried about our league position, we're much better than where we currently find ourselves. I think it's unrealistic, after losing Bellamy, to expect us to finish as high as we did last season, but I'm sure we'll be comfortably mid-table at least by the end of the season. But we definately have some problems to sort out, specifically in central defence and sorting out our forward combination - and how best to feed them.

Tough game. They'll be well up for it and I suspect they will have had a lot less players away for the internationals than us last week. After saying that I think we'll just nick it - 2-1 Rovers.

Because he's miles past his "best" if that's what you can call it.

What an awful signing. Never rated him, was part of one of our worst ever central defensive partnerships when he was here and helped get us relegated.

Was carried for many seasons by the majestic Hypia at Liverpool and then as his form deteriorated even further was farmed out to Wigan and it seems now even they didn't want him.

I'd rather keep Matteo and that's saying something. Hope to god Todd and Zurab stay fit otherwise it's Championship here we come with Henchoz and our untested Dutchman at the back, 64 years young.

What a farce after finishing 6th last year.

That one in the monastery (the first one on the list) looks good to me.

Because he would probably go the way of Jan Kromkamp and Josemi, two players who played regularly for their clubs before leaving for Liverpool and were unable to get a game and have now moved on. Neill isn't going to displace Steve Finnan who is a far better right back, or is he going to break up the Hypia and Carragher partnership. Yeah he'll be going to a club on the up, but he'll never play.

Neill's a much better player than Finnan imo. I think he'd easily be a regular at Liverpool.

I wouldn't expect you to agree though as Finnan is Irish.

So you've not thought it through at all then.

Even if what you say happens, your "solution" is simply unworkable. I mean, you're the one proposing it and you can't see how it's going to work!

I love the way you ask other people for their solutions Theno without ever properly describing how yours would work. There's been loads of counter arguments put forward by myself and others about why "Lancahire United" wouldn't work - you never refute anything, never argue your case. All you do is repeat the same slogan "there's only one way forward".

Please tell us all about this way forward. How will it work exactly? How will it get around the existing league rules that do not permit clubs to merge? How will it get past the animosity of the fans that have lost their football clubs? Where will the new stadium be located? Who will pay for the new stadium? Which clubs will be part of this merger? How will this affect the rest of the league - I mean, if we're merging will other clubs? Does this mean we'll just end up with regional / county teams rather than town / city ones? Will there still be a lower level of football?

I'm basically just looking for some evidence that you've actually thought any of this through at all.

A very proper thing to do from Manchester City:

Man City hand Thatcher ban & fine

Please don't think City are doing this out of any sense of duty or honour. They are simply trying to pre-empt any action that the FA will take, and are hoping that the FA will now show some mercy.

Personally, I think Mr Lowe is quite entertaining and just tries to "big up" new young bands. He seems to be a genuine music lover and I enjoy listening to him. I guess he's a modern-day John Peel - without perhaps having quite as diverse a taste in music.

Still, I suppose some of you numpties would have called Peel a prick as well.

Shame isnt it, wish it was 1995 allover again... Except for the last day when we lost to Liverpool. lol

Yeah, that last day when we won the league was a real bummer. lol

Scotty talking bollux shock!

Well , actually not that much of a shock at all really.

Seem to have struck a nerve there.

RevidgeBlue in negative opinion shock!!