While not wanting to stop anyone from recommending books on Hitler, please will you do it with a bit of background on the book itself and it's read-ability. ISBN & details would be appreciated.

Cheers.

Colin

Incidentally , anyone wishing to get the best insight into Hitler's psyche should try reading Frederick Spotts' "Hitler and the Power of Aesthetics" . An outstanding book in a very crowded field of biographies .....

Oh - and it's got great read-ability.......which is why I recommended it .

ISBN !!? Don't be so bloody pedantic .

Cheers .

Phil .

Yes .......it's still open after 42 years .

(The naan bread was still at its supreme best the last time I had a takeaway ......)

Incidentally , anyone wishing to get the best insight into Hitler's psyche should try reading Frederick Spotts' "Hitler and the Power of Aesthetics" . An outstanding book in a very crowded field of biographies .....

Qutb was more intelligent than Adolf

Old Adolf made a fairly interesting career out of people underestimating his intelligence .....

The parents of Gemma Adams, one of the five victims in Suffolk, said that after Gemma "fell in with the wrong crowd" she turned from a piano-playing schoolgirl who liked pony rides and brownies into a drug addict.

"We are going through hell trying to come to terms with it. It has been shock after shock," her father said. 'One of her teachers described her as an "ordinary, intelligent girl from a nice family" and that's exactly what she was,' he added.

Now I'd bet a pound to a penny that this girl's life started spiralling out of control before she reached the age of consent to even drink .

Perhaps our perpetual-link posting friend from Malta could tell us all if he favours the government prescribing hard (or even soft) drugs to kids who are obviously addicts when they are barely in their teens and still at school . Or would they have to kick their heels at the local Brownie or pony club until they're 18 ?

Make no mistake ; if the legalisation of all drugs were to take place then this measure would have to be taken if the scheme were to be in any way effective in reducing crime and prostitution . Otherwise the dealers would NOT go away - they would just concentrate on ever younger victims in order to keep in business .

What is needed is a real deterrent for suppliers and a disciplined educational programme in the schools . For addicts who break the law then a suitable stretch in solitary confinement would co them greater good in the long run than providing them with easier access to the substances that buggered up their lives in the first place .

The drummer is the musical and atmospheric equivalent of heroin to the BBE.

Don't tell Colin that ......he'll end up sitting on his knee

Just finished a biography of James Herriot by his son (Jim Wight) - a book which took Blackburn Central Library a remarkable 8 months to produce from the date I ordered it . Worth the wait , I suppose , although a "true" autobiography by the great man would have far surpassed it ....but never mind .

Oh ....and if this book should tempt you to re-read the original Herriot classics they are to be found at Blackburn library in the science section alongside a couple of veterinary manuals ....

That's a bit like saying that drinking after 10 pints is safer than after a couple of bottles of wine ....

The drug didn't work ......

On the bright side ....I missed the Coventry debacle

Does anyone know any films better than this that you'd recommend people watching?

Sexy Beast is about the best film I've seen in the last few years - good performances from Ray Winstone and the "antiques" bloke from Blackburn whose name escapes me .

The performance from Ben Kingsley , though , is stupendous - in a class of his own . I can't praise him high enough .

It is extremely embarrassing when they say on the news that snow is causing havoc ....and then show pictures where the grass is still clearly visible ....

From a different forum:

With drugs like Heroin the idea is to decriminalise it not make it legal. i.e. you wouldn't be able to buy Heroin down your local Asda.

The was an experiment done in Liverpool where Heroin addicts could go to their doctor and be prescribed Heroin, no questions asked. The idea is that the drug dealers go out of business because the NHS is giving it away for free. So no new people become addicted (in theory). The current addicts no longer have to commit crime to fund their addiction, so the average bod in the street is not getting their house burgled. Also, although the current addicts are still taking heroin at least the drugs they are getting are "safe" and if they decide they want to quit then they are already seeing their doctor regularly.

The experiment was apparently very successful and it was repeated in America.

Sounds like this person quoted has got to the bottom of how the system would work - ie , the taxpayer would fund the full monty of drugs provision , as well , presumably , as the clinics to try and wean the addicts off the drugs they have just given them .

This leaves me with a few potential problems -

1 - Is it moral for the government to dish out harmful substances to its own people (let's not kid ourselves that heroin , crack etc can ever be rendered safe whilst still remaining an attraction to the users ) . This notion that coke and heroin will be purer and therefore somehow safer is laughable - even now it is not in any (illegal) suppliers interests to kill their customers , so let's dispense with the hysterical talk of rat poison and the like ......

2 - Is the government physically capable of controlling and supplying the supply of drugs from such places as Afghanistan as Pakistan right down to the streets of our inner cities ? I somehow suspect that they cannot - wouldn't they already have done so and destroyed that supply if it were possible ? We have armies out there at the moment who aren't in control - and I need not add the people out there aren't all motivated by money and doing HMG a favour .....

3 - We should ask ourselves also at what age do people become vulnerable to drugs and how do they get these drugs ?

It is silly to think that only those over the age of 18 start drugs - they don't . So are we suggesting that minors can walk into the local clinic and ask for heroin whilst being turned away from the local pub ? And if they can't , then where are they going to get them if not the ever more desperate underground dealers who will be encouraging them all the way ?

Now I can accept that if we are prepared to stupefy hundreds of thousands of people at state expense then the crime rate may very well fall , and subsequently the prison population .

However I will never be convinced that this , in the long term , should be government policy acceptable to the electorate . It's a cop out - a plain acceptance that , as a nation , we no longer have the capacity to educate our kids (especially from the worst backgrounds) to a high enough standard to resist hard drugs , nor to fight the crimes resulting from the misuse of such drugs . It's politics of the lowest possible common denominator when we should have greater aspirations (to use Gordon Brown's favourite word....) for our kids .

Anyway , we seem to be going round in circles on this thread and I have a bad cold . Time for an aspirin.......

.......Here come the bruise brothers to tell me that I've just fallen out of the latest rainfall and that hanging and flogging and long jail sentances and military consciption will solve it all.

Well for a while you managed to actually debate the problem .....and then you came out with this .

I'll move on ......

They already do have this. Pharmacies provide methadone and other subsitute opium fixes to addicts "attempting" to kick the habit. And, the government would be able to provide drugs for quite a lot cheaper than illegal dealers can (and at higher quality) due to economies of scale and a more direct supply chain.

Even if this mass production of drugs by the government were to undercut the illegal dealers ( a very dubious claim IMO if you compare the private versus public sector in the field of providing goods ) how do you propose that the "consumers" pay for drug habits that presently cost hundreds of pounds a week in many cases ?

A debate on R5 Live yesterday included the statistic that between 80 and 90% of all heroin users (didn't catch the precise figure) are not in work .

Presumably under your scheme they would all immediately go out and find jobs paying enough to fund their drug habits ......

A more likely scenario to my cynical mind would be that they would just continue robbing and mugging and merely regard the government as just another dealer .

Another item in the news today is the government's concern that the NHS is being overwhelmed by those with self inflicted problems such as obesity , smoking and drinking related conditions .

It is little wonder then that they hesitate to add to that burden by manufacturing and distributing harmful drugs (or "higher quality" drugs as you strangely refer to them as ) .

I won't even start about the legal implications of a government that knowingly involved itself in helping to destroy the lives of its own citizens in this day and age of "human rights" .....

Bloody hell , Ricky - 24 goals in 6 games and you're having a pop at him

Probably the worst End Of The World film since Kevin Costner's The Postman. And the ending is even worse than The Postman. Yes, that bad. Avoid at all costs.

That's got me thinking if there has ever been a decent End of the World film ....I can't think of any that hasn't been disappointing .

I'd like to see a good adaptation of The Day of the Triffids - an excellent book by the way .

Oh ... and The Postman was bad ; why does Costner always make his films two hours too long ?

it'l cost you less as a taxpaper to subsidise drug use than it does to keep these people in prison

So will the charitable acts of the tax payer extend to subsidising alcohol use ? If so I might register myself ....

Do try and think these silly comments through to their logical conclusion , Flops .

Actually Phil, your anti-legalisation stance is opposite of your mostly Libertarian views....

Maybe it is .....but I don't follow any party or ideological lines . All I know is that standards in society would fall even more if any government were to give its stamp of approval to the sale and /or distribution of hard drugs . It would automatically lose crediblity on a thousand related issues ......

With regards to majority positions, if you frame the question as to whether 60,000 people should be incarcerated in British jails primarilly because they are junkies, you will find I am in a significant majority in saying no they shouldn't be.

They are in prison primarily because they have broken the law . The majority of people would prefer that muggers , burglars were jailed regardless of their motives for committing crime ....and I'm damn sure their victims would take that point of view also .

These criminals would still be junkies irrespective of whether their drug suppliers are the local pushers , the private sector or the GB government . Why can't you see that ?

They would still have to find the means to pay for the drugs . The only way around this dilemma would be to dish out the drugs for free . Maybe I'm in a tiny minority here but as a taxpayer I'd suggest this is unacceptable - asking working , law abiding people to fund the wasted lives of crack and heroin addicts until they inevitably die having contributed nothing to society.

To counter this reality no doubt you'll blab on about regulation , etc .......words to hide the fact that the government would be complicit in killing its own people . Watering down the drugs wouldn't work either ....a heroin addict isn't going to take to the diluted stuff just because it's been regulated and recommended by the gov't .

And what do you think the present set of drug pushers are going to do - retire gracefully ? No , they'll look for new markets , kids who even the government won't sell to etc , etc .....

Whichever way you look at it your arguments fall apart at the seams when looked at in any depth . The only logical means of fighting the scourge of drugs is to educate those at risk from them (real disciplined education as opposed to slogans) , and to fight ruthlessly those who profit from them . Your extremist idea of total capitulation is morally corrupt as well as being utterly unworkable at street level .

Really ? You're about the only advocate of the legalisation of all drugs that I've ever come across . Are you that arrogant that you honestly think I'm in a tiny minority on this issue ?

You simply spout extremist nonsense - out of date and out of touch with reality

He's trouble with a capital T but as a player he would be just what we need.

Whilst I profoundly disagree with your assessment of Barton's merits I fully endorse your right to air them on this thread .......

Who? Ronald McDonald?

I can just imagine it - Ronald Mcdonald and Savage in the centre of midfield

They must have all been Swiss bankers on holiday .....

So Drog wanted to sign Barton - I never knew ....still , he's entitled to his opinion ....

But ....what exactly has that got to do with this thread on drugs ?

Or have you given up on that after making such a complete fool of yourself .....

Cocaine and the working classes ? Swiss bankers and London lawyers ? .........the average five year old is more clued up about the real world than yourself

What he was doing at half five in the morning outside the chav magnet that is McD's ... who knows?

And to think some people wanted this over-rated clown to come here .....