10 minutes ago, islander200 said:

You said last week we had no money to being in any players.

Just guesswork by you.Maybe wait and see what happens in regards to incomings and outgoings

And you have no idea if Phillips was a target or not, Kaminski been on the radar a while according to Mowbray

We are not at the end of the window yet, so let's see what the net transfer spend is at that point. I hope it is a positive transfer spend for us as i fear if we have sold any of the crown jewels we have no chance at making a promotion push this year which is what we all want. I also know that Venky's do not have a bottomless pit of money to spend on us, they normally spend £10-15m a year on us, last season it hit £20m with all of the testing required, this year at present it is looking in the £30m range. 

Also if Kaminski has been on the radar for so long why didn't we sign him up a few weeks ago, especially as we have known about his 2 week quarantine for a while. So he at least has some pre season with the defence and understands our tactics.

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

I still don't get why someone would bother signing up just to post sarcastic shit when we've no senior keepers and just spent a few hundred grand on one. It's a very welcome signing but at the same time it's an absolute necessity so the situation isn't to be laughed on.

Yes wages always come into it but are obviously spread over the contract and unlikely we are paying 500k in one go. I would think it's been pretty straightforwards to absorb this kind of signing so the next one will tell us far more about the finances.

The £500k we spent on him will probably be covered by the sale of Williams to Swansea, be interesting to see by the end of the window if we have had to sell a player to bring one in each time and we have a neutral cash spend. 

Budget must still be very tight as we didn't go to the £800k Charlton wanted for Phillips. Either Phillips wage demands were too high, or the budget is very tight with the 3-4 players we want to bring in. As a safer investment I think i would have paid the extra £300k for Phillips as he is experienced in the Championship and no acclimatization that is normally required for European players.

7 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Apparently because they communicated that they had totally written off any chance of survival and thus enjoying the reward of what they had earnt prior to the season that they did the right thing. Totally illogical and against the spirit of the game.

Explained to fans they were not going to make the same mistake as last time and potentially bankrupt the side. Explained they gained promotion 3 years ahead of schedule before they had everything in place to consolidate a place in the premier league. Also were priced out wage wise on the 3 players whose bids they had accepted.

Invested the cash in youth side, stadium improvements and improving the training ground etc.

Now have a bank balance of around £30m and a profit likely this season as well. Very much the Burnley approach, Yo-Yo for a few seasons buildup the club infrastructure and make sure when you are promoted the second time you have all the infrastructure and player experience to stay there.

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

anything to suggest that we have accept a bid for one of our players?

Nothing so far. I have heard that FFP rules will be relaxed next week and a new salary cap of £20m will be voted on as well by the Championship Chairman at their end of month meeting.

If that is the case and we have always been told if it wasn't for FFP they would have put more funds into us, there is no longer any excuse for them

3 minutes ago, imy9 said:

I thought we had no money? This deal is 500k so clearly Venkys have given Tony a budget to work with.

Or we have accepted an offer for one of our players and Venky's have given a % of that for new signings

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

More than made up by Armstrong and Dack.

Not until they are sold will we ever know. 

Most of the goals and assists from Dack were made in conjunction with his partnership with Graham. Until Dack starts playing again and forms a partnership with Armstrong we can't say.

32 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Again the relevant word is "defeated". Frank and his players are bottle merchants.

The difference is they will be battling Norwich for automatic promotion, have a new stadium, cash in the bank, brilliant scouting and development setup and are already filling the gaps they have in the squad.

We are heading into the season hoping to get 10th and most probably going on a winless streak halfway through the season, giving us all worries about relegation.

Just now, Mercer said:

What a feckin desperate mess I think we are in.

Bottom line.  We are here in this position because IMO, we have a very poor CEO and football manager who both must take full responsibility, particularly for the £millions, IMO, squandered on transfer fees and wages and senseless contracts.

As I posted earlier today, I think the picture is far darker than the one Kamy painted. 

It will be far darker, as Kamy's contact will have given him as rosey picture as possible so as not to scare supporters.

The reality is they have said they can put their normal £5m-10m into the club this season and you need to fund the remaining £15-20m yourself through player sales and reduced spending.

It seems Venky's have a 2 season attention span and then the taps get turned off. Although the last time the taps were turned off for Bowyer, we were break even for the season and a £4m injection for the relegation season. So I am probably being very optimistic by saying they are injecting £5-10m in this season.

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

Henning Berg and his lawyers say no.

You have to pay up or negotiate down, but there are loads of ways as to how it would be recorded on the accounts.

1 hour ago, TimmyJimmy said:

Phili, both you and Blue blood make good points.  Lots of good stuff written there. My take is slightly different though. If I had a budget of 12M I could spread it evenly and stock up with journeymen OR I could take a punt and spend it all on two great prospects and cover the holes with good loan players. Walton turned out to be ordinary but Cunningham and Tosin were stand-outs. We couldn't have bought better. So we ended up with a multiplier effect on the transfer budget.  There's always the thought in the back of your mind that there'll be more funds available for the next season when we can have a look see at what worked and what didn't.

Walton is the one that didn't work. Unfortunately it seems we now have a close to zero transfer budget thus year... who saw that coming?

My belief is, for what it's worth, that without the injuries we would have had a fighting chance of going up with that team. If that had happened we would have had to dismantled the team and build again if we had hopes of staying up. So a sensible call not to spend money on players we would jettison in 12 months.

Bangs per buck!  I think Mowbray did a reasonable job. That said we're in a new world. Gambles backfired and we're in hole, actually several holes.

Onwards and upwards eh.

We all saw the issue coming this summer, hence pre injury Dack was going to be sold to cover the issues.

The problem i have now that FFP has been relaxed (or I believe it has been relaxed, not sure of the confirmation from the EFL yet) is that for the first time since Venky's have been here there is huge value in the transfer market. We need around £6m to fix most of our problems (Phillips, Cunningham, Lindsay, Whiteman and either a loan targetman or free transfer) so it's not like Venky's need to fund a huge transfer splurge.

The problem is probably  a lack of confidence in mounting a playoff push. We had the chance to get in the playoffs this summer and keep Venky's enthusiasm going. We bottled it and went out with a wimper, which pretty much sums up what the ending to Mowbray's time here will be.

Just now, TimmyJimmy said:

You're assessment of Walton is a 'with the benefit of hindsight' comment, mine was a before the season started assessment. He had a reasonable profile. Fair enough he disappointed in the end but yes when he joined he was a reasonable stopgap (IMO).

The problem is the budget was there last season for a permanent signing and we decided against it in favour of a loan for one of the most important positions on the pitch.

IF you have a budget with Venky's you spend it all when you can as you don't know when they will stop giving you a budget. Also with FFP rules he would have known last season he had to sell before buying this summer, so i don't understand this stop gap mentality issue. He should have had a new keeper permanently signed by January. 

6 minutes ago, islander200 said:

No bid for Phillips that doesn't mean we haven't made any bids.

Sharpe said yesterday, after his meeting with the club that we did have bids in .

Fair enough it's most likely cheap deals but at least we must have a little money 

We don't have any money until Venky's do the next share issue, last one was June for £4m. We have since had the £2m from the EFL for media deal etc. 

Looking at those figures and the amount we have had to spend on things such as the next Bereton instalment, Gallagher, player bonuses and also having to pay players for their wage deferments.

I would say at the moment we can just about pay this months wages and that is about it. 

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Academy grads and cheap loans, you’d imagine...

(Not sure where that leaves The European Scouting Model).

Dismantled to save costs. Players released will not be replaced . I would expect a few player sales and no replacements inorder to control costs.

If they only have £10m available for this season we need 1 to 2 player sales to cover the remaining

Just now, Mercer said:

Think we are brassic and the funding seems to be drying up.

From 25 Jul 2018 to 5 Aug 2019 there were 4 allotment of shares by VLL totalling £22.5 million.  Since, there have been 2 allotment of shares by VLL totalling £9.3 million.

I think we need to adopt the emergency landing position.

Possibly worse than that, a normal season and we would have had £3m of season ticket income, £0.5m replica shirt income and £2.5m sponsor income and £1m corporate box income.

None of that will have arrived for the start of the season as we would normally expect. Not having some sort of season ticket package available is criminal in our position. For cashflow forecasting it must be a nightmare at the moment.

The worst case scenario is that Venkys will have to fund everything for the season, or around £30m as there will be £0 turnover coming into the business, before we get to transfers etc.

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

In addition to the wages won't there be a signing on fee and agent's fees as well ?

There will be the same for Downing as well. Withdrawing offer for Downing and making a offer for Marshall seems to be what most sensible clubs would have done.

Just now, Ruaney said:

Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting he isn't a good goalkeeper because he is. But, unlike derby we don't have 12k a week to be spending on an ageing keeper when I think we could get someone like Phillips for the same if not less. I am also not naive enough to believe we will spend 800K on Phillips either. But if we can get someone in who does have experience but isn't 35, then i'd be happier with that. Who that is, I am not sure but I am not too upset it's not Marshall. There HAS to be better out there

He is experienced and on a free transfer. I am not sure there is that much better out there. We will end up with a 20 year old 4th choice premier league reserve for the season, with his mistakes costing us a play off shot.

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Depends how the player or players got the virus? Was it whilst in was Austria or France? 

You DON'T know whether the player or players would have get the virus if Liverpool stayed based at Melwood. Can you say for sure they would have got it in the UK?

As they went to the training camp in Austria at the weekend. The likelihood is the Virus was caught over here, so whether they went to Austria or not the player would have caught it.

We are not going for a training camp whether we wanted to or not because we don't have the funds at the moment.

The enthusiasm is severely lacking so far for the new season. On the pitch it is so annoying, for once there is great value in the transfer market, if you think we could sign Phillips, Cunningham, Lindsay, Whiteman and lets say Martin (i may have got the spellings wrong) and solve pretty much all of our issues in the side and still have change out of £6m. I am sure their wages are pretty much the same as the players we released as well.

11 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Thanks. A complicated situation and the sort of thing that it is difficult to devise rules to counter.

Very difficult to devise rules to counter especially when a club is with a holding company with other businesses. The first thing a new company will do is going through loss making or negative cashflow businesses to try and increase funds and improve the ROI of a venture. I am not sure if the Wigan owner had taken loans out to buy the 51% of the fund he did not own?

It could well be that a stipulation of receiving the funds from banks to complete the acquisition was to divest the fund of Wigan and improve the funds standing and cash generation.

There are a multitude reasons of why you want to buy a business, i have bought several companies to close them down and remove a competitor from the market place, just normal business practice really.

2 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

What do you think those questions should be ? Personally I can't see how officials at the EFL could have known what Kay was up to, especially as I am still unable to understand why he continued with the purchase given that he seems to have already realised that he would be unable to finance the club.

He bought out the 51% stake in the Next Leader Fund he did not own, which owned Wigan and a number of other businesses including a casino and resorts complex in the Philippines.

He wanted these businesses and not Wigan, so upon gaining full control of the fund, he put Wigan into administration and increased the funds profits by £14m a season overnight as well as improving the funds cashflow position to invest more cash into profitable businesses.

If Wigan were a cash generative profitable business they wouldn't have gone into administration. 

9 minutes ago, Theaxe15 said:

Who told you that? Andy Ridgwell, Twitter's finest up and coming gossip monger?

No just the field of work I am in. Venky's will be doing a rights issue to Venky's London Ltd in the next 2 weeks but it isn't the amount anticipated as being required for the first half of the season.

Just now, JoeH said:

If we start the season with:

Fisher
Nyambe Lenihan Wharton (or Williams) Bell
Travis Johnson
Brereton Rothwell Armstrong
Gallagher

We'll get relegated

I agree, although I am not sure Nyambe, Travis, Rothwell and Armstrong will still be with us to make the side.

20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Very good point made. 

We deffo need 2 keepers in

You DONT KNOW the budget is very limited. So why keep repeating it?

I gave you 2 examples of ball playing centre back we could get in who are good player. Rob Dickie and Matt Clarke. I'm sure there is loads of foriegn options like Chumi from Barcelona B for example. 

From what I have heard, we need to prepare for players leaving and no new signings until the January/February window.

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Tosin had his strengths too, but ya Bauer would have been a  good signing. Seems Neil just sold Preston to him more than Mowbray sold Rovers. 

Mowbray had better improve quickly at selling Rovers to players if we have a very restricted budget as otherwise we are not going to be getting any players.

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Well, he kind of did last season! Not on Whites level, but a good one. 

Yet we ended up paying more for that player on loan than if we had signed Bauer. If we had signed Bauer, we probably would have ended up conceding less goals than we did.

Although both maybe academic as I am sure the main plan last summer was Mulgrew to continue to partner Lennihan in defense and Adarabioyo to partner Travis in midfield.