It's difficult to comprehend how a cultured footballer such as Colin Todd could have produced such a thuggish offspring in his son Andy.

Colin Todd was indeed an excellent player and would have gained many more England caps had he not had the misfortune to be around at the same time as a certain R Moore.

I did wonder about Colin Todd the man however: I remember watching him on TV in his Derby County days mouthing racial insults at West Brom's Laurie Cunningham when black players were just breaking through into league football.

As a manager he was very tense and extremely difficult to deal with. His teams were non too exciting either.

I'm glad Andy is leaving the club.

'The gods visit the sins of the fathers upon their children' (Eurypides)

Cos imo thats how ridiculous and tiresome this entire issue has become! 

If its that tiresome an issue why have you posted 18 times in this thread???

You're probably right Ricky! I think that I must be turning into a right sad barsteward!

Next thing I'll prob be that sad that I'll end up aimlessly counting other peoples posts!

Indeed.

If calling a black guy 'nigger' isn't worthy of an apology then I don't know what is?

Well what about murder, genocide, killing somebody's relative through careless/ bad driving, announcing redundancy, paedophilia, friendly fire, any kind of accidental damage / loss / grief caused to another etc etc. Come on Rovermatt you really must try to get a better grasp of reality than you currently appear to possess.

Anyway back to the subject matter. What about deliberately elbowing an opponent perhaps? I know which I would rather be the victim of.

..He also reveals that he hasn't yet had a written apology from Big Ron....

Apology AESF? What for? Which bit of Ron's well documented outburst was untrue?

So it's OK to call someone a nigger then.

I'm glad we sorted that one out.

So what Ron should say is

"Marcel. I now realise (after reading the Rovers board) that it is obviously deeply insulting to refer to you and millions of others like you as nigger / black / negro / coloured and that the mere mention of your skin colour is deeply embarrassing for you and constitutes some kind of offence in our enlightened society.

I am old and was brought up in different times. I remember the time when people were rightly proud of their ethnic origins but I guess its not like that anymore is it?

I realise that I have offended you through my inappropriate choice of words, but for the life of me I cannot really understand why. Unless the reason is how absolutely awful being your colour must be and how you and all others must all wish that you could change and be as white as Michael Jackson. So once again, sorry mate you really do have my profound sympathy and I shall promise never ever to mention your embarrassing skin colour ever again."

There is that better Jim? Cos imo thats how ridiculous and tiresome this entire issue has become!

Marcel Desailly says he hasn't forgiven Atkinson for his comments in Monaco.

He also reveals that he hasn't yet had a written apology from Big Ron....

Apology AESF? What for? Granted the terminology could have been better matbe but which bit of Ron's well documented outburst toward Desailly was untrue?

Has the flippin lazy-arsed coloured chappie reimbursed Chelsea out of his own pocket for last season when by his own admission he never ever gave 100% effort and commitment to the team?

Oh..... and has he actually apologised for his cowardly assault on Morientes?

Unless Todd winds up at one of the 3 promoted teams he will struggle to be first choice ch at any Prem club. His best hope of a regular start will be in the 1st div........and they dont pay too well.

I guess refusing to man the pumps on a sinking ship thereby endangering the club, his team mates, the manager, the back room staff and the supporters is correctly perceived as one of the worst indescretions possible to a man like GS.

[Bernard - Last posted in November 2003

The Francophile of the board...............

He seemed to object to certain posts from people like Theno and Blue Phil, whose views he strongly disagreed with.

I don't know if he was upset by Theno's reinstatement on the board, but I remember Bernard being a strong supporter of the Moderators original decision to ban The Drog.

Prob just a case of 'if you live with em you go like em!'

Copied from the Burnley link.......

"Posted by lewg89 on 06 May 18:48 Complain | Reply

re: re: re: Surreal sunday ?? ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If Burnley fans run true to form it will go a bit like this,

1,loads of passion towards Stan and Glen.

2,quiet down after 20 mins.

3,crap game,get on players backs.

4,getting beat 10 mins to go.

5,volley of verbal towards BK and the board.

6,pitch invasion and goad visiting supporters.

7,then fight with police in town centre and smash a few things up. "

Much discretion needed but a visit t'Turf on Sunday might just be a good day out!

Typical and entirely predictable!

Agent Kilby's excellent and valid mission to leave only 1 pro club east of the M6 is obviously entering Phase 2 of the overall gameplan.

Clive Tyldesley admits that Ron mentioned the 'N' word in a conversation with him at the end of their broadcast.

Not surprisingly Tyldesley, in a newspaper article, now strongly condemns Ron's remark as "outrageous" - but I wonder if he strongly condemned it at the time?

If you listen to the audio tape aesf then the answer is no.....unless Tyldesley needed to think about it for a minute or 2 first.

If he'd had the sense just to call him FRENCH (instead of the N word) then Big Ron would still be up for his £1m.

Dont forget that Cantona got off with his assault on Matthew Simmons because of the racism employed by MS when he told Eric to 'f**k off you French motherf***er'. Unbeleivably the upsetting bit was held to be the single word 'French'!

It appears that Manchester Blue has been hoisted by his own petard.

Why are people comparing Big Ron to a black rapper? OK then, let's do that. If Ice T was working alongside Clive commentating for the Monaco/Chelsea game and came out with the same outburst that Ron did what would happen? He'd lose his job that's what!

Yes but Ice T would probably be awarded a fortune at a tribunal for unfair dismissal.

For God's sake Phil, it has nothing to do with any raging liberal sentiments or political correctness (oh no! ) gone overboard. You simply cannot go around calling people 'niggers.' It is common sense and common decency.

OK but what should be the punishment rovermatt? imo it's been well overdone and RA has been well and truly hung out to dry. The punishment hardly fits the crime does it?

Sure he's from a past generation and may not be bomb-proof enough in this day and age to appear on live commentory, but should that mean that he never appears on pre-recorded tele / radio again? Worse still how come he lost his job on the Guardian? Whats all that about by the pompous gits down there? It's not as if newspapers are much of an example to all is it? They usually walk a very precarious line twixt what is permissable and what isn't. Surely he could never commit that type of indiscretion in print and when buffered by numerous editing processes?

Should he have no further right to make a decent living using the best ability / skill at his disposal as a football pundit?

Not been following the thread but here is what he said:-

http://www.mcniven.co.uk/audio/

Is it my imagination or just as Ron uttered his now infamous "he's what is known in some circles as a @#/? big lazy nigger" did the stadium announcer shout 'Au revoir' over the loudspeakers? If so then it's well spooky.

No matter how often I hear his comments about Veron, Ranieri and Desailly I find myself in total agreement with the actual 'meaning' of his summary. I wonder if he would have wound up in some sort of trouble if he had simply missed out that single racist remark.

i think i also speak for the majority who say that when a black person is racist towards the white population, not nearly enough focus is paid to it and in many cases a black person can be just as rasist as a white person.

Hence the term 'white niggers'. Coined I understand by Afro-Americans and used to describe Irish Americans.

Didn't the same happen with Jim Bowen on Radio Lancashire? He was made to resign because of his comments. Not condoning it, but you can't do to one and not to the other for the same thing.

Besides ITV is rubbish when it comes to football, and it should be taken off ITV altogether.

Jim Bowen was potted for using the term 'Nig-Nog'. Unfortunately for Jim something that used to translate into numpty / stupid person now appears to have been changed in perception to something to do with the negro race.

He pleaded innocence by pointing it out at the time but the BBC still potted him.

The ful transcript of what Big Ron said is here.

I can understand many people cribbing about the style but not about the content.

I see that you obviously missed the match MB.  I suggest you watch a re-run of Desailly elbowing Morientes.  All this other stuff is just a case of sticks and stones mate,  words no matter how offensive they are viewed are not as dangerous as that assault with his elbow.

I don't need to see a re-run as I watched the game on Tueasday. I honestly can't see how anything that Desailly did can have any bearing whatsoever on what 'Big Ron' said. If he had kicked the fella square in the knackers I still wouldn't condone calling him a 'nigger' and never will. It is not acceptable and it is not in any way being politically correct to suggest that it is unacceptable.

Well can there be any justification for handing Desailly what will probably be a 3 match ban and a derisory fine whilst some old geezer gets one for life? I suggest not!

The way some people are reacting raises the possibility of a revue of capital punishment for this type of offence.

Did anyone see the Trevor McDonald news at half ten interview? That was a great example of pathetic reporting, the bloke (no idea who he was btw) interupted Ron on three seperate occasions suggesting he's racist and Ron, to his credit, thorougly denied it without resorting picking up the chair he was sitting on and smashing the reporter with it. I know I felt like doing it!

One gets used to it after a time.

Ian Wright was on Radio Five earlier this evening where he described ocassions where Atkinson made similar "joke" comments to him and Garth Crooks.

Ian Wright?!? Hmmmmm a guy once described as the most naturally balanced footballer in the country....cos he has a huge chip on both shoulders!

This is the guy on whose chat show every black guest was introduced as 'brother'. Imagine the hoo-haa Colin if Parky reserved that term of endearment for whites only?

I don't think anyone here's sticking up for Desailly, Gordon. But Ron was out of order, simple as that. He could have easily have said what he said* without using the word "nigger" and still got his point across. But he didn't and he's got his comeupance. Personally I'll miss his 'Ron-isms' but at least its one Scum fan off the telly.

*(is "said what he said" something akin to a double negative I wonder? )

>Post-Edit

And here begineth brfcs.com Racial Debate No. 549

I dont think that I am sticking up for Ron either Rad, but imo the worse indiscretion of the two incidents last night was Desailly's.

Maybe I have the wrong handle on this but in the eyes of a true professional the most hurtful and damning of the three words considering the importance of the game should rightly be 'lazy'!

Lets not forget that at the start of this season Desailly claimed that he had never given 100% of his effort for Chelsea! I pointed out in here at the time that if I was Ranieri I would immedietely adjust his salary accordingly in the light of his shameful admission. Daft sod he may be but like me I think Big Ron would have struggled to come to terms with that attitude in a player.

I see that you obviously missed the match MB. I suggest you watch a re-run of Desailly elbowing Morientes. All this other stuff is just a case of sticks and stones mate, words no matter how offensive they are viewed are not as dangerous as that assault with his elbow.

I am shocked by what he has said, but if it is true then he has to go.

It's certainly not true! In the light of his viscous attack on Morientes when Ron Atkinson described Desailly last night as a "###### lazy nigger" he missed out the words "dirty and bad-ass" either side of "lazy".